The core of it is though.
It doesn't matter really though does it. If we win this year, we surpass both Brisbane AND Geelong with or without 08 as the greatest of the modern era.
Brisbane 01-03 v Geelong 07-11 v Hawthorn 08-14.
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The core of it is though.
It doesn't matter really though does it. If we win this year, we surpass both Brisbane AND Geelong with or without 08 as the greatest of the modern era.
I'd think Hawthorn 1983-1991 was one era/team, because while there was a high turnover rate in that time there's enough consistency year to year (and they remained up in the finals, and often enough Grand Finals, in each of them to make it work).
I like the idea of a coach's staying at their club being the one side. I really rate Collingwood 1917-1936.
I like the idea of a coach's staying at their club being the one side. I really rate Collingwood 1917-1936.
Better winning %, More seasons as minor premiers, plus a prelim the year before the streak started.
and then basically the core members winning in 08.
You would have no points to argue that Brisbane were ahead.
The whole if we win another flag thing doesn't grab me like it obviously does a Hawthorn supporter. For my thinking, I don't reckon you will win another flag this year, so your dreaming of future premiership glory is entirely peripheral to this discussion. Yes, that's right; check the thread title. It contains a series of years and 2015 is not among them. Hence, very pertinent to the discussion, is that the 2008 playing group at Hawthorn is not the same playing group of 2014. That is the core of it. Not some fantasy future.
Tichmond Rigers
Cancelled
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Exactly. One thing some Hawthorn fans don't understand is that they haven't won the 2015 Premiership yet, and that it doesn't come so easily either with Sydney still lurking and Port Adelaide charging through. Hence, it shouldn't be taken into consideration when replying to this post for now. The option in the poll does say "Hawthorn 08-14".
It is Brisbane>Geelong>Hawthorn at the moment. I can see the argument for Geelong>Brisbane>Hawthorn though.
IF Hawthorn win the Premiership this year, I think it is Brisbane>Hawthorn>Geelong. However, I would then think that any combination would be justifiable depending on what aspect the person decides to focus on (three-peat, H&A wins, competitiveness of GF opposition etc.)
Yeh on those statistics its fair, but Id still back the Brisbane team in a hypothetical If we are talking match ups.
Well your thinking is your thinking mate. it doesn't really matter. Hawthorn might not win the premiership (much to your delight) but it wont be because you don't think they will.
The 2015 premiership is definitely relevant here, as one of the teams discussed in this thread will become the winner of the debate listed in the thread title, if they win this years premiership which they are the favourites to win.
In the meantime, if I were you, id start scraping the bottom of the barrel for possible long shot points about how Geelong or Brisbane could still be classed as the best team of the modern era if we succeed this year, because if we do win this year, the bottom of the barrel is the only place you'll find them.
Explain your reasoning, as it makes no sense.
If Hawthorn were to get up they would have in their favour for arguments sake
- Greater win/loss record
- Higher %
- Multiple finishes as minor premier vs Brisbane none (IIRC),
- Extra prelim appearance (2011) before the 4GF in a row
- A extra premiership in 08 - you will attempt to downplay it because without doing so your argument is toast but the fact remains - The KEY members of this Hawthorn team were present in 08 - Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis, Roughhead - our best 4, plus Rioli, Birchall (both 7-10) as well as players in that played in 13 but not 14, in Franklin, Sewell and Guerra. Alot of key names there
Your points?
- Because I say so ??
Enlighten me.
By the way, 13 players from Geelong (Scarlett, Enright, Wojinski, Selwood, Bartel, Mackie, SJ, Chappy, Ottens, Ling, Corey, Kelly, Stokes) played in both 07 and 2011. Hawthorn had 9 play in both 08 and 13.
So I guess somewhere between 8 and 13 is where the official cutoff for "Premierships not counting" lies?
Tichmond Rigers
Cancelled
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Read my quote after what you have bolded. I said that I think any combination is justifiable.
I can definitely see why you say Hawthorn is the best out of all three. Made a prelim before the 4 grand finals in a row (provided that they make the grand final in 2015). Did not lose much within their dominant period. It could easily be Hawthorn>Brisbane>Geelong.
But even if Hawthorn win the Premiership, we also need to look at what kind of a season they had. It is easier to start this conversation when this happens though. Right now though, let us not include 2015 yet and look at the other years (messed the quoting up btw and cannot be bothered fixing it)
I can definitely see why you say Hawthorn is the best out of all three. Made a prelim before the 4 grand finals in a row (provided that they make the grand final in 2015). Did not lose much within their dominant period. It could easily be Hawthorn>Brisbane>Geelong.
But even if Hawthorn win the Premiership, we also need to look at what kind of a season they had. It is easier to start this conversation when this happens though. Right now though, let us not include 2015 yet and look at the other years (messed the quoting up btw and cannot be bothered fixing it)
Shake your head all you want mate, but it doesn't explain why you are attempting to enforce some weird requirement to not discuss perfectly relevant points.
Whats your point in obsessing about the fact that the thread title says 08-14 ? Our window is still open, whilst Brisbanes (and possibly Geelongs) is finished. We have a chance of extending this "era". Are we not allowed to bring up the fact that we will eclipse the other 2 should we win this year? Was the thread not created with the basic intention of debating quite simply who is the best team out of the three and which one will leave the greatest legacy?
Also, whilst we are on the subject of your weird obsession to not stray an inch over the time frames listed in the thread title , didn't you mention that Hawthorns 08 team "didn't count" due to reasons you created. Does that mean you have also sinned against the almighty thread title?
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That's like saying Goodes, O'Keefe, Bolton and Roberts-Thomson were there in 05 and Richards, Malceski and McVeigh were there in 06 and they were all there in 2012 so Sydney 2005-2012 is one of the greatest eras of all time.
Sydney 05 & Sydney 12 were very different sides, as are Hawthorn 08 & Hawthorn 13/14, it's a big stretch calling either an era.
It's not really. 9 players from 08 played in 13, and out of that 9, 7 would be in our top 9 players. All we did was change the support. Going into this season, Mitchell Hodge Lewis Roughhead and Rioli(when fit) would be our best 5 players so a pretty significant part of the team still.
Nothing like 05-12.
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Why not?
7 players (Goodes, O'Keefe, Bolton, Richards, McVeigh, Malceski & Roberts-Thomson) from 05/06 played in 12, and out of that 7, all 7 were in our top 9 players in 2012. All we did was change the support.
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Lethality
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The swans didn't do anything in between to link the two eras. Aside from a bad 2009 due to injury and a recovery in 2010, Hawthorn have lived in the top 4 for a while now.
timtamWB
Resident Biscuit
While I do agree with your points, I don't really think it's that much of a qualifier.firstly detox, it's Roughead and not Roughheadand secondly, Hawthorn have barely scraped by each of their last three preliminary finals so while the end results are now history, they are bloody lucky to be in the position they currently are in. Geelong had them on the ropes, one more goal during that final quarter would have been just enough to see them through to yet another GF and that was without any designated ruckman, no Enright and no Chapman either.
Last year, it was the same deal, Port Adelaide should have been at least 4 goals up at quarter time having peppered the scoreboard. They didn't convert and it came back to haunt them. How bloody lucky were Hawthorn though in that final quarter, it was all Port Adelaide. Right up until the final siren.
It's sheer arrogance to suggest Hawthorn have the 2015 premiership in the bag. That's virtually what your implying by throwing up the hypothetical in the first place.
One major factor Hawthorn have been blessed with come September, is a fairly healthy squad of players to take into the qualifying finals or preliminary finals. One wonders how they would cope without two or three of their starting 18 players. We may just find out that answer this year.
Remember back in 2007, you won your preliminary final by under a goal, and Port smashed North by almost 100 points. Go to the Grand Final, and the team that just snuck through absolutely demolished the team that easily got through.
But in hindsight, everyone would have said that Geelong had the premiership in the bag back in 2007.
Although I do agree that the Hawks don't have the flag in the bag this year.
Lethality
Most successful team in your lifetime
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Geelong won two of their prelims by close margins before winning the flag, same as Hawthorn, so Geelong supporters can't use narrow PF wins to try and diminish Hawthorn's success without appearing silly.
Bobby_ also makes the dubious arguments that without bad shooting for goal by the opposition, Hawthorn would not have made the 2014 GF, and that Hawthorn were lucky to overcome Geelong in 2013 PF. Yet without bad shooting for goal by Hawthorn, Geelong would not have been in the frame. So he counts certain circumstances against Hawthorn but refuses to factor them in FOR Hawthorn as well, or indeed AGAINST his own club.
Stan The Caddy
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Are you sure about that mate?
timtamWB
Resident Biscuit
Er... they only narrowly won in 2007. The rest they won fairly comprehensively.
Honestly, I don't think you can compare these three teams, since they all have different positives and negatives. I know I'm going to be labelled as a fence-sitter, but I don't really mind. I'm just here to point out facts
Stan The Caddy
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Oh the irony.
Stan The Caddy
Norm Smith Medallist
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How come you don't want to answer my question Podgey?
Has the cat got your tongue mate?
I'll ask you again. Are you sure about that?
Lethality
Most successful team in your lifetime
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How come you don't want to answer my question Podgey?
Has the cat got your tongue mate?
I'll ask you again. Are you sure about that?
I already answered that question with my other reply . . . it shouldn't have escaped you since you quoted it.
Stan The Caddy
Norm Smith Medallist
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Haha! I'll take that as a "no" then.
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