Politics Capitalism V Socialism, or is it?

[The Coup]

No such thing as radical leftists out side of a capitalist society. You don't know what you were reading.

You don't know the political compass of a communist if you think they are left. A communist is more right wing than what you think is right wing, when the cycle requires. Because of common sense. Something a capatlist doesn't have (common sense)

Imagine the greens in Australia introducing a 1 child policy

Nailed it.

Communists embrace conflict because it RESOLVES things - the truth will win out, Capitalists lie about freedom so nobody can resolve ANYTHING - i.e. my ignorance beats your education (as we see on this forum, every god damned day).

 

[The Coup]

Most people are too self-centered and aspirational in nature to allow socialism to work. The only way it can be implemented over a large population is by force (e.g. dictatorship).

This is yet again, another condiutioned response.

If you would get paid more under communism, and you would definitely get paid more, how does that conflict with your financial aspirations?

Having more power, more control, more money, more time, better health, better education. That's communism, its the most aspirational of all economic systems. Its just that you're aspiring for it for everyone, not just yourself at the expense of everyone else.

Furthermore, Communism is specifically local. There are no overarching institutions or governments that decide what people in far away lands can and can't do like we have now.

Local people make their decisions for themselves and their communities. If they want to engage with other communities go right ahead, they will work it out themselves.

 

[Todman]

This is yet again, another condiutioned response.

If you would get paid more under communism, and you would definitely get paid more, how does that conflict with your financial aspirations?

Having more power, more control, more money, more time, better health, better education. That's communism, its the most aspirational of all economic systems. Its just that you're aspiring for it for everyone, not just yourself at the expense of everyone else.

Furthermore, Communism is specifically local. There are no overarching institutions or governments that decide what people in far away lands can and can't do like we have now.

Local people make their decisions for themselves and their communities. If they want to engage with other communities go right ahead, they will work it out themselves.

Thats not communism, what you are referring to is Co-operativism. There used to be Co-operatives all over Australia. They were mostly ran for the benefit of farmers. Myfamily was a part of one. But they all disappeared because of the get big or get out mentality. They would merge and then incorporate and finally be taken over by a larger corporation.

 

[The Coup]

Thats not communism, what you are referring to is Co-operativism. There used to be Co-operatives all over Australia. They were mostly ran for the benefit of farmers. Myfamily was a part of one. But they all disappeared because of the get big or get out mentality. They would merge and then incorporate and finally be taken over by a larger corporation.

Then what is Communism Todman, please do go on.

 

[The Coup]

I have been hanging out for this thread just quietly. Five stars, would post again, multiple times.

 

[Todman]

Then what is Communism Todman, please do go on.

One of the keys to the co-operative was that every member had to own private property.

 

[Showbags]

Most people are too self-centered and aspirational in nature to allow socialism to work. The only way it can be implemented over a large population is by force (e.g. dictatorship).

A socialist/capitalist hybrid is the best form of government compared to purely socialist or purely capitalist. I think Scandinavian Socialism is a good mix. Greater access of opportunity for all its citizens, progressive taxation but still retaining the incentive for people to work hard and earn rewards for their effort.

 

[Todman]

 

[Todman]

A socialist/capitalist hybrid is the best form of government compared to purely socialist or purely capitalist. I think Scandinavian Socialism is a good mix. Greater access of opportunity for all its citizens, progressive taxation but still retaining the incentive for people to work hard and earn rewards for their effort.

 

[medusala]

Communism all the way for me personally. No government, local democracy, trade union democracy, equality

GUM was always full of peasants.

 

[Power Raid]

Some freaky religious nuts on both sides of the Himalayas rekon acceptance is the key to happiness and peace. In capitalism, everything is geared the exact opposite to acceptance. No ones acceptant to what they have, what they are. Everyone is programmed to want more.

I can't believe, now that I understand that, that I never understood before, capatlism can not live peacefully, unless everyone accepts they can take what they want.

That's not capitalism, that is a person's insecurity and unfulfilled life that seeks short term satisfaction over long term happiness

 

[Power Raid]

Some freaky religious nuts on both sides of the Himalayas rekon acceptance is the key to happiness and peace. In capitalism, everything is geared the exact opposite to acceptance. No ones acceptant to what they have, what they are. Everyone is programmed to want more.

I can't believe, now that I understand that, that I never understood before, capatlism can not live peacefully, unless everyone accepts they can take what they want.

That's not capitalism, that is a person's insecurity and unfulfilled life that seeks short term satisfaction over long term happiness

 

[Power Raid]

Communism all the way for me personally. No government, local democracy, trade union democracy, equality. All profits of work go back to the people actually producing it. What's not to like?

More in line with your thread though and the people in power and the silliness of any socialism vs capitalism debate (considering a tiny percentage of Australians even know what Communism is... let alone Capitalism) is this delicious copypasta I sourced directly from the FB oven:



Genius at first glance. Need to meditate on it.

But it could apply quite easily to anyone who defends the status quo based on feeling and emotion (which Australia is rampant with) - this is poison to conservatives whose ideology is literally based on emotion (an illogical, rose coloured and patently and false memory of the past). The concept of 'freedom' in politics right now is drastically holding us back, the idiots have got legitimacy over the experts, through sheer weight of number.

I glad my grandparents fled communism

What a nice dream but horrible and brutal reality

 

[The Coup]

Your grandparents fled from eastern Europe right? Fair enough to flee but they were fleeing a state capitalist system. A borderline colonial one at that. Brutal but not Communist other than in name.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

You are thinking of what happened to the USSR after Stalin performed a "me" and had Trotsky hunted down in Mexico - the accurate description for that system is state capitalism and I agree with you on its flaws.

We've never seen a communist state because communism does not need the state or want it. If you think Communism is about the one party state taking profit then you do not understand the basics, the very basics, of communism and any criticism you level at it is intellectually stupid on that basis.

Communism was always a stepping stone to true socialism, where by in larger the end goal is that wealth is controlled by people.

This idea that communism is some magic bullet and they we shouldn't strive for a true socialist outcome. Frankly strikes me as bullshit.

True Socialism as an end result wants what you describe and in fact needs those to function.

Instead of being a tosser and insulting me, show me the evidence that communisms goal was a borderline anarchist state?

The entire point of communisms was to convince the masses they needed their oligarchy to see them through to golden age of true socialism.

Then proceeded to face * them as a result.

 

[The Coup]

Communism was always a stepping stone to true socialism, where by in larger the end goal is that wealth is controlled by people.

Erm.... what? You've got that arse backwards there mate.

This idea that communism is some magic bullet and they we shouldn't strive for a true socialist outcome. Frankly strikes me as bullshit.

True Socialism as an end result wants what you describe and in fact needs those to function.

Instead of being a tosser and insulting me, show me the evidence that communisms goal was a borderline anarchist state?

The entire point of communisms was to convince the masses they needed their oligarchy to see them through to golden age of true socialism.

Then proceeded to face **** them as a result.

I shouldn't need to tell you that! I like you as a poster, but I'm sick of people repeating complete falsehoods about Communism, so I am going to mock people when they're wrong.

You are talking specifically about the USSR and its State Capitalist system.

You need to seperate the barrage of anti Russian propaganda from the reality of actual Communist theory and practice, before we can even discuss this honestly.

 

[The Coup]

well you're reminding me of the insufferable radical twats on campus if that makes you feel better.

Were they a lot more informed than you too?

I'm sensing a pattern.

 

[Long Live HFC]

Were they a lot more informed than you too?

I'm sensing a pattern.

some of them definitely were! more committed to the cause and all that. their level of twatness was totally disconnected from their level of informedness though, so don't pretend that being a twat automatically makes you informed.

 

[The Coup]

some of them definitely were! more committed to the cause and all that. their level of twatness was totally disconnected from their level of informedness though, so don't pretend that being a twat automatically makes you informed.

I'm not being a twat though. I just know what I'm talking about and now you're really insecure.

 

[Seeds]

Some freaky religious nuts on both sides of the Himalayas rekon acceptance is the key to happiness and peace. In capitalism, everything is geared the exact opposite to acceptance. No ones acceptant to what they have, what they are. Everyone is programmed to want more.

I can't believe, now that I understand that, that I never understood before, capatlism can not live peacefully, unless everyone accepts they can take what they want.

what a load of rubbish. capitalism has nothing to do with how much people want or dont want. next you will tell me capitalism causes cancer.

human desire for status and health drives the want for more. Capitalism doesnt constrain that desire. not constraining a human desire is not the same thing as encouraging or enhancing it.

 

[Long Live HFC]

I just know what I'm talking about

really? must be in another thread then?

and now you're really insecure.

lulz. I've forgotten more Marxist theory than you've ever known, kid.

 

[Seeds]

Communism all the way for me personally. No government, local democracy, trade union democracy, equality. All profits of work go back to the people actually producing it. What's not to like?

More in line with your thread though and the people in power and the silliness of any socialism vs capitalism debate (considering a tiny percentage of Australians even know what Communism is... let alone Capitalism) is this delicious copypasta I sourced directly from the FB oven:



Genius at first glance. Need to meditate on it.

But it could apply quite easily to anyone who defends the status quo based on feeling and emotion (which Australia is rampant with) - this is poison to conservatives whose ideology is literally based on emotion (an illogical, rose coloured and patently and false memory of the past). The concept of 'freedom' in politics right now is drastically holding us back, the idiots have got legitimacy over the experts, through sheer weight of number.

its very sad when all that we have learned over the past century about economics and people still believe that communism could work even for a single hour. its just as ridiculous a belief as the concept of a single man delivering presents to a billion households on a single night in December. even most 7 year olds figure out that is nonsense.

 

[little graham]

its very sad when all that we have learned over the past century about economics and people

Capitalism needs as a many people on the planet as it can get. The planet can't handle it.

End of lesson.

 

[Todman]

Capitalism needs as a many people on the planet as it can get. The planet can't handle it.

End of lesson.

All capitalism needs is two people willing to trade goods and services.

 

[little graham]

All capitalism needs is two people willing to trade goods and services.

After exploiting a million others, normally by gun point.