carlton v richmond midfields

[THE_GUN]

there is & has always been a lot of banter between richmond & carlton supporters as to which team have a better midfield.

so if we put 10 players up for each team which team would have the better midfield including depth.

carlton - judd,stevens,gibbs,murphy,walker,russell,scotland,carrazzo.simpson,houlihan

richmond-deledio,foley,cousins,cotchin,brown,tambling,white,newman,coughlan,connors

 

[Schache It Off]

Neither.

 

[Rids]

From a neutral perspective I would say the top 5 are very even.

Judd probably just has Cousins covered (being younger if nothing else), Deledio beats Stevens reasonably comfortably, Foley and Murphy are both great young guns and couldn't split them, Gibbs just over Cotchin at the moment but suspect Cotchin will end up better and Brown has a touch more class then the under-rated Scotland.

On depth perspective though I would comfortably pick the Carlton "2nd 5"

 

[Atavistic]

Carlton.

 

[Madtiger2006]

Hey where the hell is Tuck? lol. Where is Polo? I think Polo will end up better than alot of Carltons midfielders and probably in our top 5 midfielders. Give him a fair go Terry. If his name was Tambling he would have played 80 games by now and be playing very good footy with more experience. I'd take Tuck and Polo over Russel(a dud), Scotland(a dud when under pressure), Houlihan(soft forward) and Carazzo(apple turnover). Terry obviously has discipline issue with Polo because he underplays him and drops him after good performances. I believe we will prove to have alot more midfield depth in another 12 months. Jackson should be in there too. I wouldn't have Brown named as a midfielder. Play him 80% as a forward

Here's my top 5 Tiger mids: Foley, Tuck, Deledio, Cousins, Cotchin
and my quality back up mids are:
Coughlan(did his knee in a freaky incident, the doctors did a crap job because it didn't heal properly and had to fix it up again. He doesn't rely on pace and may not even have dodgy knees, but was just very unlucky. He's very fit and always picks up the pace of the game quickly. I say look out for Cogs in 2009. He'll be back to his best by Round 6 )
Polo(underrated by many, especially his coach. If Terry gave him a fair go he'd be up their with Foley, Deledio and Cotchin), Jackson(keeps improving), Thomson.

i haven't included 5 of THE_GUNS midfielders such as White(wing), Tambling(back pocket/flank), Brown(forward pocket), Connors(forward flank) or Newman(back flank) in my midfield because they play in other positions

 

[doona]

I think that Carlton have one of the better midfield's in the competition and at this stage it is better then Richmond's. Saying that though i think that carlton's midfield would probably be the third best in the competition behind Geelong and the Hawks; at worst they would be top 5.

However Richmond have a better team then Carlton because:

Richmond's forward line > Carlton's forward line (Because i think that Carlton's forward line is to one dimensional, it might change in 09 though)
Richmond's Back line >>>>>>>>>>>>> Carlton's backline

 

[Madtiger2006]

I think that Carlton have one of the better midfield's in the competition and at this stage it is better then Richmond's. Saying that though i think that carlton's midfield would probably be the third best in the competition behind Geelong and the Hawks; at worst they would be top 5.

However Richmond have a better team then Carlton because:

Richmond's forward line > Carlton's forward line (Because i think that Carlton's forward line is to one dimensional, it might change in 09 though)
Richmond's Back line >>>>>>>>>>>>> Carlton's backline

and when Polo gets a fair run, we'll have a better midfield too

 

[ratten7]

how about the rucks, don't they play in the midfield? We have Simmonds and Vickery Vs Warnock, Kreuzer and Hampson. Simmonds is the best of this lot due to being over 30, but we have a young ruck division that in 2 or so years could possibly be the best ruck combination in the comp.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

Carlton have the better midfield IMO.

 

[Madtiger2006]

how about the rucks, don't they play in the midfield? We have Simmonds and Vickery Vs Warnock, Kreuzer and Hampson. Simmonds is the best of this lot due to being over 30, but we have a young ruck division that in 2 or so years could possibly be the best ruck combination in the comp.

We also have Pattison and Putt

 

[ratten7]

what are Pattison and Putt like?

 

[matey]

I rate the Tigers group ahead as it has a better mix of class and hardness which is vital in tight tough pressure games.

Judd goes in hard but the Blues do not have one player that runs through the middle that has a bit of the old fashion mongrel or has physical presence when flying the flag for the team.

I realise the game has been cleaned up alot in recent times but players with mongrel and genuine hardness is still a required trait as these type of players are much more likely to put there head over the ball or cop a hit for the team especially come finals.

 

[PooPooMcPhee]

I like the Tigers midfield more. You'll be seeing alot more of Polo and Thomson and people will be rating these players very soon. Then you add in Cousins. That is potentially a strong midfield when you know the potential and qualities of these players. Deledio was probably the equal of Judd in 2008 and will only get better, while Judd may be past his peak honestly. Gibbs looked quality in 2008 after looking just OK in 2007. but Cotchin almost matched Gibbs in 2008 in his first year and he didn't even have a preseason. Cotchin is the next Gary Ablett. Foley and Murphy are similar, but Foley has a bit more pace and ball winning ability. Tuck and Carazzo are a bit shonky by foot at times, but Tuck is a much better centre clearance player and looks a touch cleaner with his skills. Cousins is a step above Stevens with his fitness and attack on the ball. I haven't seen anything to like about Walker and Russell, while Scotland is just a handy defender. I don't think Houlihan is even a midfielder. While Simpson is a good running player. It will be interesting to see how Coughlan goes too. If he comes good then the Tigers have alot more ball winning ability than Carlton in the middle and; therefore, a better midfield

 

[PooPooMcPhee]

I rate the Tigers group ahead as it has a better mix of class and hardness which is vital in tight tough pressure games.

Judd goes in hard but the Blues do not have one player that runs through the middle that has a bit of the old fashion mongrel or has physical presence when flying the flag for the team.

I realise the game has been cleaned up alot in recent times but players with mongrel and genuine hardness is still a required trait as these type of players are much more likely to put there head over the ball or cop a hit for the team especially come finals.

Agree. 3/4 of Carlton's top 10 midfielders are outsiders. Only Judd and Murphy will win the ball with agression. The tigers have 5 of these ball winning types. To say Carlton have a better midfield is just looking blindly at the name Judd and 2 or 3 #1 picks. Since when has Russell, Scotland and Walker been strong midfielders? The Tigers would outdo the Blues with ball winning strength and speed with the likes of Tuck, Foley, Polo, Coughlan, Deledio, Thomson and Jackson. Then they have the skill of Deledio, Cotchin and Cousins. In the end they would run over Stevens, Walker, Russell, Scotland and co

 

[Daytripper]

Judd > Deledio
Gibbs = Foley
Cotchin > Murphy
Stevens = Cousins
Brown > Walker
Tambling > Russell
Johnson > Scotland
Tuck > Simpson
Newman > Carazzo

And thats not including Richo who played a bit of midfield last season.

As for depth :

Coughlan, Polo, Connors, Thomsen, Hislop, White >>>> Bentick, Bannister, Browne, Grigg, Hadley, Wiggins.

Easily Richmond and to make it even better for them they have Carlton covered in the rucks, down back and have more options up forward as well.

 

[Winner]

Tuck is the most criminally underrated player in the league. Carltons midfield is one dimensional and slow. Richmonds is far better.

 

[gaelictiogar]

From a neutral perspective I would say the top 5 are very even.

Judd probably just has Cousins covered (being younger if nothing else), Deledio beats Stevens reasonably comfortably, Foley and Murphy are both great young guns and couldn't split them, Gibbs just over Cotchin at the moment but suspect Cotchin will end up better and Brown has a touch more class then the under-rated Scotland.

On depth perspective though I would comfortably pick the Carlton "2nd 5"

I think this is fair enough. As a unite Cotchin, Deledio, Foley and a fit Cousins are stronger than any quartet Carlton can field but Carlton's reserves are probably marginally better than ours.

TC will be better than Gibbs...indeed he probably is already.

 

[juzza316]

I think this is fair enough. As a unite Cotchin, Deledio, Foley and a fit Cousins are stronger than any quartet Carlton can field but Carlton's reserves are probably marginally better than ours.

TC will be better than Gibbs...indeed he probably is already.

Judd, Stevens, Murphy, Gibbs are as strong and IMO stronger than Cotchin, Deledio, Foley and a "fit" Cousins as you say. Cousins hasnt played for 18 months. You might as well add a "fit" Coughlan who hasnt played in two years either.

 

[Madtiger2006]

Judd, Stevens, Murphy, Gibbs are as strong and IMO stronger than Cotchin, Deledio, Foley and a "fit" Cousins as you say. Cousins hasnt played for 18 months. You might as well add a "fit" Coughlan who hasnt played in two years either.

There's almost nothing between those 4 to say there is an obvious advantage to Carlton. Our best 5 would be Cousins, Tuck, Foley, Deledio, Cotchin. I also believe Polo is twice as talented as what his opportunites suggest. He obviously hasn't been on Terry's good side, but Terry will have no choice soon but to make him a permament player in our 22 and I think everyone will see him as a quality young midfielder in a year or so. Cousins is as fit as anyone and he's pretty much as match ready as any of our players considering no one will have played a game for premiership points in 6 months by Round 1. Will be interesting to see how Coughlan goes. I've never considered him to have bad knees. When he did his knee, the incident looked rare and innocent and I didn't believe he did his knee at the time. But he did and when he was preparing for the next season about 8 months into the rehab, he felt a problem after a slight slip and he later realised the knee wasn't repaired properly and hadn't healed so they had to redo it. So he's missed 2 years because of 1 injury. There's a decent chance he doesn't have bad knees(like Richo, who did his knee in a freak incident). Cogs is fit, but and he has the advantage of coming back preseason when every player hasn't played for a while. He has always got back into the game after 3-5 games after injury. He picked up 40 touches late last season for Coburg, so don't be too surprised if he has played 7 or 8 senior games by midseason and he starts to pick up 38 touches. It might not turn out this way but you never know

 

[cormick]

When Tuck is added in, I'd say it swings in Richmond's favour.
But I would.

 

[THE_GUN]

yeah sorry guys tuck should be in the 10 as well , but it was pretty late & was just reading through a few posts & the same arguments kept coming up and we always about the midfield.

there are some players that dont alays start in the mid, but all pretty much run through at diffrent stages of the games & i think it gives good indication of the depth rather than just put up the top 4 of each team.

there are players for richmond who i didnt include that could of been included as im sure there are for carlton as well & if a blues supporter would like to put them up would be great as well. for the tigers

tuck,edwards,collins,raines,king,hislop,thomson,johnson,jon ,jackson ,polo are the the players that were left out.

 

[RichosGuns]

Richmond's midfield last year was it's weakness.

However when you add in Cousin's and Thompson to the 22 plus a fully fit Coughlan (has completed a full preseason so far) you have a much better team. Tuck also had a very poor start to the season but from round 12 onwards won the second most amount of clearances in the comp and the equal most disposals.

Richmond's best proven midfielders are: Deledio, Tuck, Foley, Brown, Cotchin, RICHOMAN.

Add the Coughlan and Cousin's who should return to the best 22.

Then Richmond have midfielders Thompson, Edwards, White, Jackson, Polo, etc, who have all played played 20+ games and have expirence at the level.

On top of this Richmond then have Tambling, Raines, Newman, Johnson, McMohan, etc who will all rotate through the midfield.

Then theres the kids who dominate at VFL but haven't had much oppurtunity in AFL like Daniel Conners, Tom Hislop and Robin Nahas

 

[tcwaters]

Richmonds.


Easily

 

[Silvagnis]

Carlton's.

We defeated Richmond without Walker, Judd, Houlihan and Hadley who are easily in our best 22.

Our midfield includes Kreuzer who is a midfielder in a ruckman's body when the ball hits the deck and capable of damaging touches around the ground.

Anyone who says Walker isn't a strong midfielder and our backline is weaker than Richmond's is blind and hasn't seen any football.

I wouldn't trade Andrew Walker for Richie Tambling and Shane Edwards.

Walker's aggression, hard running, athleticism, speed, versatility and strength makes him a more valuable player than Tambling. Walker was voted BOG by Williams and Pagan last year for his game on Shaun Burgoyne when we beat them last year.

I've yet to see Tambling dish out don't argues and attack the contest as hard as Walker who has a great defensive side to his game.

Grigg is a harder player than Connors and already shown more.

Browne and Anderson will be a good as Matt White.

Simpson tore it up for Australia this year and is another player who leads more than Tambling.

Murphy has more class and poise than Foley after his display for Australia against Ireland.

Our midfield will bat a lot deeper than Richmond's this year with the new boys in Yarran, Johnson, Robinson and O'keeffe capable of playing senior footy next year.

Adam Thomson has shown less than Russell and couldn't crack a game for a struggling Port side.

You could argue a similar argument for Chris Johnson at Melbourne, but he is an elite kick according to Ratten and hit every target with kick in drills in this pre-season.

Richmond are putting the cart before the horse with Thomson.

Carrazzo is a better player than Thomson with his hard running.

 

[Silvagnis]

Then theres the kids who dominate at VFL but haven't had much oppurtunity in AFL like Robin Nahas

You're including Nahas who was drafted in the rookie draft?

We might as well throw up Joseph, Ellard and Garlett.

Armfield is more likely to have a career than Nahas.

Though Nahas would probably be an improvement on Jake King.