No Oppo Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

[BrunoV]

Well that is interesting but hardly helpful if Alavi will not testify on behalf of the players?

The weight afforded to the evidence provided by a witness who cannot be cross examined is always going to be lessened (if it is even admissible - and depending on how ASADA want to use it Alavi's evidence may not be admissible).

ASADA will try to rely on transcripts/tapes of interviews but if they are littered with leading questions or better don't contain positive references by Alavi to TB4 they are basically worthless as far as putting TB4 into a syringe and into a players stomach is concerned.

So in the end the extent of the admissible evidence may be that Alavi compounded a Thymosin peptide but that he does not know what it was. If so, it's almost meaningless circumstantial evidence of TB4 being provided to Dank unless there is actual evidence somewhere that TB4 is what Dank used (and it would be a real surprise if that evidence exists).

The Tribunal will need to exercise extreme caution in allowing any reliance on the evidence of Alavi and Charter and I fully expect that the members will.

 

[BrunoV]

There appears to have been great pressure excreted on ASADA to pursue Essendon even though they had very little evidence and under normal circumstances would have quit.

ASADA's desperate attempt since at assembling something that might even look like a case is becoming more and more obvious.

This is where Hird's appeal rears its ugly head (from the perspective of ASADA/AFL).

ASADA/AFL ignored a regime that demands secrecy to ensure that the investigation and decisions made as a result of the investigation are not polluted by outside pressures, to ensure that players are properly charged and their rights are not pissed all over, and then went ahead to charge the players because of those outside pressures.

The more I think about it, the more the appeal should win. I still don't know whether we can get any meaningful relief though.

 

[Dan Cooper]

This is where Hird's appeal rears its ugly head (from the perspective of ASADA/AFL).

ASADA/AFL ignored a regime that demands secrecy to ensure that the investigation and decisions made as a result of the investigation are not polluted by outside pressures, to ensure that players are properly charge and their rights are not pissed all over, and then went ahead to charge the players because of the outside pressures.

The more I think about it, the more the appeal should win. I still don't know whether we can get any meaningful relief though.

Hird getting the rather emphatic first court result overturned seems a long-shot, but consider this too >

Cerberus @tretestecane · 11h11 hours ago
There's a lot of possibilities with Hird's appeal.He can 'win' but not get remedies he seeks (ASADA evidence burned) so still overall 'lose'

 

[rumply]

It will carry as much weight as a cherry picked interview transcript from ASADA. If ASADA are relying on a Dank interview with the Age where he actually retracted the part they want pertaining to TB4, our witnesses can speak to the tribunal via the media with the same credibility. It will muddy the waters at least and highlight the fact that this kangaroo court tribunal that is free from evidentiary restrictions is a ******* farce for something so complicated and serious.

Very true - this has devolved into a 'he said/she said' debacle, which is an abhorrence given the gravity of the outcome for the players.

 

[rumply]

Richard Ings ‏@ringsau 11m11 minutes ago
What I don't get about this Alavi chapter is TB4 is a prescription only drug. If it was compounded where is the prescription.

 

[Smokin]

I thought Alavi has said previously he didnt compound anything? He had no idea what it was and didnt do anything to it?

or am I mistaken?

 

[rumply]

giddyup

The following went to my 40 odd media mates:

Guys

As you know I am almost an ‘atheist’. Apart from Tony Nolan QC, Chip Le Grand, Tracey Holmes, Alan Jones and Graham Cornes, I have had no faith in the media or any of the legal participants including Justice Middleton, Garry Downes, Burnside, Grace, Hargreaves, Dillon, Hardie or anyone on ASADA’s team from the janitor up to the hopelessly out of their depth CEOs.

I have forced fed you like little babies examples of ASADA changing a witnesses’ evidence; omitting evidence; fabricating evidence; lying; accepting evidence from a key witnesses, which the investigators knew was wrong, etcetera

Now we have today’s debacle where Chip Le Grand has quoted Nima Alavi saying that ASADA tried to persuade him to sign an affidavit which they knew was false.

If there is an ounce of decency in any of you, you should be demanding that your editors write a front page story insisting the case be dismissed immediately.

I know enough about the law that perjury is a gaolable offence. Hopefully, trying to persuade someone to knowingly commit perjury carries the same penalty.

Bruce Francis

 

[Zephyr Effekt]

meh...technicalities

 

[DapperDon]

"Take out the stuff that wont help us"

Or whatever the actual quote is......

 

[boncer34]

giddyup

Grow up Rumply

 

[Dan Cooper]

Call me naive, because it has taken a long time for the penny to finally drop for me in all this. But it is now as obvious as my ****ing thumb that McDevitt was put in place to get a guilty verdict against the players by whatever means it took, and it appears he stopped at nothing from what we are hearing now.

 

[Dan Cooper]

giddyup

Highly tempted to post that letter by Bruce in the "Bruce Francis" thread. But only with your approval.

 

[carnthedons]

Call me naive, because it has taken a long time for the penny to finally drop for me in all this. But it is now as obvious as my ****ing thumb that McDevitt was put in place to get a guilty verdict against the players by whatever means it took, and it appears he stopped at nothing from what we are hearing now.

you mean he'll do #whateverittakes?

 

[Walesy]

#StandByMcDowhateverittakes

 

[Pweter]

Grow up Rumply-th

EFA

 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

Highly tempted to post that letter by Bruce in the "Bruce Francis" thread. But only with your approval.

Not worth it. Not sure why Bruce doesn't trust Burnside either...

 

[lysp]

This thing reeks more and more of McDevitt having been pushed into the ASADA investigation in the 11th hour after they had already been advised to abandon it, and told in no uncertain terms to get a guilty verdict by stealth, or whatever it took.

McDevitt & Co then appear to have applied old school cop methods like interviewing witnesses for as long as they could keep them there in search of that one statement they could use - out of context if necessary - to support their case. Not content with that, McDevitt & Co then appear to have had the gall to call witnesses back in afterward and put doctored accounts of their testimony in front of them in the hope they would sign them without proof reading them first.

This thing is no longer about justice. It hasn't been for a long time. It is about ASADA, led by McDevitt, desperately seeking a guilty verdict no matter what it takes, or what dubious methods need to be applied in the process.

**** off McDevitt!

**** off ASADA!

That's exactly it - he's there to get a guilty verdict no matter what.

As well as ignoring the advice he's been given - I'm pretty sure most of the ASADA lawyers don't believe anything their saying either. That probably explains the stumbling they were given during the cases. They're normally ok when they know legally where they stand, but find it hard when they're being forced to argue something they don't believe in.

 

[Dan Cooper]

That's exactly it - he's there to get a guilty verdict no matter what.

As well as ignoring the advice he's been given - I'm pretty sure most of the ASADA lawyers don't believe anything their saying either. That probably explains the stumbling they were given during the cases. They're normally ok when they know legally where they stand, but find it hard when they're being forced to argue something they don't believe in.

The baseless argument Dan Star persisted with on behalf of ASADA in the last court case became cringe-worthy, and the Justice Croft wasn't backward in letting him know.

 

[rumply]

Highly tempted to post that letter by Bruce in the "Bruce Francis" thread. But only with your approval.

go for it

 

[Old Campaigner]

Richard Ings ‏@ringsau 11m11 minutes ago
What I don't get about this Alavi chapter is TB4 is a prescription only drug. If it was compounded where is the prescription.

I thought that was why Dank used a steroid trafficker to source the stuff, to avoid irritating red tape like prescriptions.

Also I found this study and it made me think of the HTB:
Buckels, E., Trapnell, P. and Paulhus, D. (2014). Trolls just want to have fun. Personality and Individual Differences, 67, pp.97-102.

ABSTRACT
In two online studies (total N = 1215), respondents completed personality inventories and a survey of their Internet commenting styles. Overall, strong positive associations emerged among online commenting frequency, trolling enjoyment, and troll identity, pointing to a common construct underlying the measures. Both studies revealed similar patterns of relations between trolling and the Dark Tetrad of personality: trolling correlated positively with sadism, psychopathy, and Machiavellianism, using both enjoyment ratings and identity scores. Of all personality measures, sadism showed the most robust associations with trolling and, importantly, the relationship was specific to trolling behavior. Enjoyment of other online activities, such as chatting and debating, was unrelated to sadism. Thus cyber-trolling appears to be an Internet manifestation of everyday sadism.

Charming people lol.

 

[7zark7]

que?

I think it is a joke referring to Caro telling everybody to grow up when she disagrees with them.

 

[kfc1]

Why has Robinson not been brought in as a witness either by ASADA or the players? Seems a bit fishy (altho Hird isnt a witness either?)

 

[rumply]

I think it is a joke referring to Caro telling everybody to grow up when she disagrees with them.

ah ok cool, as often happens I am slow on the uptake with many of these things,

hope mods are ok with the continued relaying of some of Bruce's stuff here, please let me know if not.

I assume the players' legal team will ask Nima Alavi to sign an affidavit to the same effect as Chip's story. David Grace would then table it and say as there is no way of trusting any ASADA evidence the case should be dismissed. Minister Dutton will be signing his own death certificate if he doesn't start an investigation.

It's time everyone looked at the donut not the hole.

 

[boncer34]

Sorry Rumply

 

[rumply]

Sorry Rumply

no need