Clarkson v Worsfold

[Black Diamond]

Who do you think is the better coach?

Clarkson - 162 games, winning 54.32%, 1 GF, 1 premiership, MBA

Worsfold - 235 games, winning 52.77%, 2 GFs, 1 premiership, BPharm

At the time of their flags it was widely believed each side would become dominant for several seasons. For the Eagles, cultural issues and injuries got in the way. For the Hawks it was injuries and impromptu retirements.

Both coaches were also significant figures in implementing cultural change at their clubs.

I felt both did a superb job in 2011. Clarkson to pull his side together despite severe injuries to many players and Worsfold to follow a wooden spoon year with a top 4 finish was a great demonstration of their leadership and tactical abilities.

So what do you think?

 

[willoblue]

Clarkson the thinker, but Woosha the leader of men.
mick "Chancy Gardiner" malthouse showed that leadership was more important than intellect & whilst John is a good guy & a good student, he has no intellectual spark. John has done a remarkable job with a below average list. he is to be commended, but Clarkson (I don't know him, but he appears an angry, little tool) is actually a groundbreaker & should be lauded for his efforts.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

Worsfold will win because your average punter will always vote for the "good bloke". Clarkson hasn't exactly endeared himself to the football public over the journey. Overall though, Clarkson is obviously the better coach & the better tactician.

 

[Monkey King]

Worsfold will win because your average punter will always vote for the "good bloke".

Yeah, couldn't possibly be because Worsfold's deemed by some to genuinely be the better coach

Overall though, Clarkson is obviously the better coach & the better tactician.

I'd say he is a better tactician, but as Neil Daniher will attest, that doesn't always translate into being a better coach of players or leader of men; and this is where Worsfold pips Clarko IMO.


These two guys are fairly closely matched IMO and it's pretty hard to split them being an outsider looking in. I give it to Worsfold though; likely one Leo Barry mark away from being a two-time premiership coach. He kept his team up for longer, whereas Clarko's team "pinched" one and then fell straight off the perch. Both get extra kudos for lifting their teams back into contention, but Worsfold did from lower with more external obstacles.

If Clarko doesn't win another flag with this lot, he will have failed as a coach IMO. The Hawks are primed!

 

[hawkman]

It is amazing how quick opinions can change. This time last year it would have been Clarkson easily

 

[Slattery_20]

It is amazing how quick opinions can change. This time last year it would have been Clarkson easily

This time last year Clarkson was definitely not flavour of the month. In fact both of these guys were pretty well out of favour before last year, shows how much a year can change things.

 

[hawkman]

This time last year Clarkson was definitely not flavour of the month. In fact both of these guys were pretty well out of favour before last year, shows how much a year can change things.

Clarkson wasn't highly rated but I'm sure many thought Worsfold would be getting sacked at the end of the year. I know I wasn't expecting him to be coaching this year

 

[Monkey King]

Clarkson wasn't highly rated but I'm sure many thought Worsfold would be getting sacked at the end of the year. I know I wasn't expecting him to be coaching this year

This is true, but from Kennett's rumbling's I wouldn't have thought Clarko would have been all that far behind either.

 

[lamaros]

I don't think either have overachieved, given what they've had to work with.

If West Coast make top 4 this season I'd be going to Worsfold though.

If Hawks win it then Clarkson will redeem himself in my eyes.

 

[lmach]

Clarkson the thinker, but Woosha the leader of men.
mick "Chancy Gardiner" malthouse showed that leadership was more important than intellect & whilst John is a good guy & a good student, he has no intellectual spark. John has done a remarkable job with a below average list. he is to be commended, but Clarkson (I don't know him, but he appears an angry, little tool) is actually a groundbreaker & should be lauded for his efforts.

Below average list? Far better than the one Pavlich has been carrying for the past decade.

 

[tacopavlich]

Worsfold.

 

[Patron]

I don't know i think woosha is good with players and team management side of things but i prefer clarkson on game day. Coaches are very hard to judge especially two that are closely matched.

 

[MikesTop50]

Worsfold will win because your average punter will always vote for the "good bloke". Clarkson hasn't exactly endeared himself to the football public over the journey. Overall though, Clarkson is obviously the better coach & the better tactician.

I wouldn't say it's obvious at all.

Clarkson is a good coach, but he had his premiership team gift wrapped for him upon arrival. Worsfold built his own.

Both good coaches, but Worsfold is clearly the superior.

 

[Slattery_20]

Would I be right in saying both coaches had great years when out of contract after poxy years when they were safe?
Used to s**t me up the wall when Sheedy did that, always did enough to go again.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

I wouldn't say it's obvious at all.

Clarkson is a good coach, but he had his premiership team gift wrapped for him upon arrival. Worsfold built his own.

Both good coaches, but Worsfold is clearly the superior.

Dear god.

 

[Jade]

Worsfold will win because your average punter will always vote for the "good bloke". Clarkson hasn't exactly endeared himself to the football public over the journey. Overall though, Clarkson is obviously the better coach & the better tactician.

Worsfold could potentially win because people believe him to be the better coach.

Both have bloody good records; I went Worsfold for two reasons:

1. Two GF's and a flag. West Coast spent that period of time as the genuine force in the league. Hawthorn took, whilst a deserved, but still very lucky flag against Geelong. They then followed that up by missing the eight. The missing the finals the year after helped reinforce the idea that Hawthorn took advantage of a tactical 'quirk', and Geelong flat out choked.

2. Clarko is a sooky sooky la la.

 

[Jade]

I wouldn't say it's obvious at all.

Clarkson is a good coach, but he had his premiership team gift wrapped for him upon arrival. Worsfold built his own.

Both good coaches, but Worsfold is clearly the superior.

Dude, Hawthorn was rebuilt from the ground up under Clarkson.

 

[DTRAIN87]

Who do you think is the better coach?

Clarkson - 162 games, winning 54.32%, 1 GF, 1 premiership, MBA

Worsfold - 235 games, winning 52.77%, 2 GFs, 1 premiership, BPharm

At the time of their flags it was widely believed each side would become dominant for several seasons. For the Eagles, cultural issues and injuries got in the way. For the Hawks it was injuries and impromptu retirements.

Both coaches were also significant figures in implementing cultural change at their clubs.

I felt both did a superb job in 2011. Clarkson to pull his side together despite severe injuries to many players and Worsfold to follow a wooden spoon year with a top 4 finish was a great demonstration of their leadership and tactical abilities.

So what do you think?

Strange that Worsefold has a BPharm and West Coast Players were notorious for getting on the gear.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

Strange that Worsefold has a BPharm and West Coast Players were notorious for getting on the gear.

Haha

 

[MikesTop50]

Dude, Hawthorn was rebuilt from the ground up under Clarkson.

Players already at Hawks before Clarkson coached a game

Hodge
Mitchell
Osborne
Croad
Williams
Brown
Sewell
Crawford
Ladson
Bateman

Players drafted the same time Clarkson got appointed

Franklin
Roughead
Lewis
Young

That's 14 of his premiership players on the list before he even coached a game.

Hardly built from ground up.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

Players already at Hawks before Clarkson coached a game

Hodge
Mitchell
Osborne
Croad
Williams
Brown
Sewell
Crawford
Ladson
Bateman

Players drafted the same time Clarkson got appointed

Franklin
Roughead
Lewis
Young

That's 14 of his premiership players on the list before he even coached a game.

Hardly built from ground up.

In your first 10 posts I've seen you say

* Worsfold is clearly a superior coach to Clarkson
* Clarkson didn't build his premiership team
* Rioli is overrated
* Ziebell is a clearly better player than Shiels

Obvious what your intentions are.

So we had 10 premiership players on the list when Clarkson arrived right? The other 12 premeirship players were either drafted by him or bought into the side yeah?

So you don't think turning over half the list in his first two years, changing the whole Hawthorn mentality on field, and re-inventing the gameplan and turning it into a premiership winning by his 4th year in charge is a complete rebuild? Just stop.

 

[Jade]

Players already at Hawks before Clarkson coached a game

Hodge
Mitchell
Osborne
Croad
Williams
Brown
Sewell
Crawford
Ladson
Bateman

Players drafted the same time Clarkson got appointed

Franklin
Roughead
Lewis
Young

That's 14 of his premiership players on the list before he even coached a game.

Hardly built from ground up.

I'll trust the accuracy of your statement; however that would mean 12 players that took the field for the GF were drafted under Clarkson, all within four years of being drafted.

Add to that the radical change in game style, the cultural shift towards uncompromising football, the realignment of Crawford and Hodge, the aggressive pursuit of recycled talent.....

Mate, anyone saying the Hawks flag side wasn't built under the stewardship of Clarkson has freakin rocks in their head....

 

[MikesTop50]

Obvious what your intentions are.

Not a fan of Mikes top 50 this week?

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

Not a fan of Mikes top 50 this week?

Bingo. I know whose second account you are as well. Not half obvious.

 

[MikesTop50]

Bingo. I know whose second account you are as well. Not half obvious.

Well aren't you quite the Sherlock.

How'd you get it? Was it when I told you?