Collingwood 2016 Pre-Season Discussion

[Jasper84]

Like I said your two examples our Club has replicated, so they are irrelevant.

As for questioning Hodge's integrity and standing in the game because of his drink driving offence and suspension on field is laughable. Let's just agree to disagree on that one.

Give me back-back-back-? anyday.

I just hope Bucks hasn't sugar coated the "frisbee gate" like some.

How do you go back-back-back? If the first two are back to back, then there is no back for the third one to go back to back with. At best it would have to be back to back to front. Or front to back to back. Either way, it sounds like sexy times had by all.

 

[Bard]

Whatever path your taking count me out. The Hawks punishment was appropriate, IMO, and you know he was punished at least...

lol I'm not intending, or about to, launch into some massive tirade about their duty of responsibility as idols to children blah blah blah, I just disagree that what they did was enough. But yes, they did do something about it. My point is more that we shouldn't use them as a benchmark for the 'culture' of our club or how to deal with these media crisis situations. Just because they're the Premiers - even 3 times in a row - doesn't mean they're the /best/ at /everything/ they do and I get sick of hearing we should copy them at every and any opportunity.

 

[ppoiter]

lol I'm not intending, or about to, launch into some massive tirade about their duty of responsibility as idols to children blah blah blah, I just disagree that what they did was enough. But yes, they did do something about it. My point is more that we shouldn't use them as a benchmark for the 'culture' of our club or how to deal with these media crisis situations. Just because they're the Premiers - even 3 times in a row - doesn't mean they're the /best/ at /everything/ they do and I get sick of hearing we should copy them at every and any opportunity.

Re the last part, same. Their club captain was caught drink driving shortly after one of their assistant coaches sons died that exact way. They aren't perfect either. Also so what if Jordan Lewis was seen chewing out players for missing targets. How would anyone know the exact same thing didn't happen at our training?

 

[Vicky Park]

It's certainly coming from beneath with the likes of Adams, Grundy, Marsh and JDG seeming to be cut from the same cloth as Lewis, but that drive to be the very best over a long period of time or for lack of a better term "intangible" of leadership isn't apparent in many of our senior players. They're certainly good footballers, but there has been a serious leadership void post 2013, IMO.

Do you think we have too many nice guys, the leadership group elected due to popularity? Pendles leads by example rather than being demanding? Its a style of leadership I guess. I wasn't always convinced early on that Pendles was right for the role, but I think he has grown into it. This year will be a test for him. Saying that, I hope Adams is more in the Hawks mould of leaders.

 

[Copeland]

Ben Reid injury free can't describe the feeling I get.

I know what you mean, but its surrounded by nervous butterflies.

 

[PicaBoo]

Do you think we have too many nice guys, the leadership group elected due to popularity? Pendles leads by example rather than being demanding? Its a style of leadership I guess. I wasn't always convinced early on that Pendles was right for the role, but I think he has grown into it. This year will be a test for him. Saying that, I hope Adams is more in the Hawks mould of leaders.

Adams has to get a bit more creds in before he can lead by authority. Composition of our team is a different to that of the Hawks. A lead by example is probably better suited to get the kids motivated to train the house down .

 

[ClaytonM]

They're certainly good footballers, but there has been a serious leadership void post 2013, IMO.

I think this shows a hole that exist in our list profile, in part brought about by the Wood, Jolly and Ball trades. The Wood trade was particularly damaging.

We traded early picks for these players. Ball and Jolly provided good leadership immediately but left a void a few years later, and Wood, no need to comment.

Unfortunately as a playing group they really didn't galvanise to get the obsolute best out of themselves.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Wood was not a bad trade. Wood was the right trade at the time. We were enntering a premiership window and we needed a ruckman straight away.

Three years runiing we picked up Wood then Leigh Brown then Jolly. Wood didnt work out but the other two were our premiership ruck combination.

No regrets about paying up for Wood. The strategy was right even though it didnt work out

 

[NT.Thunder]

I think the Wood trade was justified at the time, maybe not in hindsight but he was rated as a junior. He just didn't develop like anyone had hoped for. Grundy has shown more development in just 3 seasons and expect him to take another leap this year.

 

[good4footy]

Do you think we have too many nice guys, the leadership group elected due to popularity? Pendles leads by example rather than being demanding? Its a style of leadership I guess. I wasn't always convinced early on that Pendles was right for the role, but I think he has grown into it. This year will be a test for him. Saying that, I hope Adams is more in the Hawks mould of leaders.

Interesting you bring up Adams. He was in Torquay with a few young guys the other weekend (hope one if them wasn't a player otherwise he has a few kilos to lose before the first game) but it was interesting to see him keeping the guys in check. Small stuff but still he was making sure they were respectful and not inappropriate, entitled footballers.

They got told their was no room for them for 1/2 an hour and he interuppted one of the younger guys who was asking for clarity by saying thanks and we will come back then. They did and he made sure they lined up- very respectful approach and in charge of the young guys that were getting used to being gawked at.

 

[Jasper84]

Interesting seeing the perception of what constitutes good leadership. Jordan Lewis berates his team mates for poor skills and he is seen as a good leader getting the best out of the playing group. Brendan Goddard berates his team mates for poor skills and he is seen as a finger pointer and widely condemned for his actions.

 

[ClaytonM]

Wood was not a bad trade. Wood was the right trade at the time. We were enntering a premiership window and we needed a ruckman straight away.

Three years runiing we picked up Wood then Leigh Brown then Jolly. Wood didnt work out but the other two were our premiership ruck combination.

No regrets about paying up for Wood. The strategy was right even though it didnt work out

The strategy was absolutely right, just the execution wrong. I havent checked but i think you will find around that time there were other ruckman traded for less who went on to be far superior.

Right strategy, wrong player and expensive in terms of draft pick.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

The strategy was absolutely right, just the execution wrong. I havent checked but i think you will find around that time there were other ruckman traded for less who went on to be far superior.

Right strategy, wrong player and expensive in terms of draft pick.

Yeah well s**t happens. Problem was wed left it too late. Not sure who else was available around that time. No regrets at picking wood up personally even though he proved to be the wrong player. As for cost...meh. First round second round whatever we needed a ruck immediately

 

[NT.Thunder]

Interesting seeing the perception of what constitutes good leadership. Jordan Lewis berates his team mates for poor skills and he is seen as a good leader getting the best out of the playing group. Brendan Goddard berates his team mates for poor skills and he is seen as a finger pointer and widely condemned for his actions.

A good leader knows how to get the best out of their team and this method may vary from person to person. We all react differently so what works for some may not work for others obviously. Managing these idiosyncrasies through leadership and not emotion is the tough part.

 

[Rusty22]

Anyyone head down to training this morning?

 

[Kirby]

Anyyone head down to training this morning?

Hawthorn's or ours?

 

[Rusty22]

Hawthorn's or ours?

why hawthorns/.

 

[Pies_Iceman]

Leeds United? Talk about long suffering! (and this from a Liverpool supporter...) Falls from grace don't come much bigger than Leeds. They're hanging in their in the Championship, I'm always hoping they'll get promoted. Hopefully one year soon!

Tell me about it. Started following them in 2000 and it just went from good to bad. Tbh i can't see us getting promoted anytime soon. Havent had a decent owner since I've been a fan.

 

[Kirby]

why hawthorns/.

All that chat above about Hawthorn's training and professionalism etc........I was just being irreverent.

 

[Jelly Bean]

Anyyone head down to training this morning?

Yep. I've posted a training report.

 

[ClaytonM]

Yeah well s**t happens. Problem was wed left it too late. Not sure who else was available around that time. No regrets at picking wood up personally even though he proved to be the wrong player. As for cost...meh. First round second round whatever we needed a ruck immediately

I am not criticising the decision. We needed a ruck and Wood certainly looked like a good option. With hindsight we would have picked up Stevie Johnson, Cripps and a range of top flight players over time no doubt. All I was commenting on was the impact those decisions had on our list. You will never hear me criticise the recruitment of Ball and Jolly, but I do acknowledge that it, combined with the concessions given to GC and GWS at around the same time left a big hole in our list profile. One year our first draft pick was Jackson Paine at around pick 50 from memory.

 

[ClaytonM]

All that chat above about Hawthorn's training and professionalism etc........I was just being irreverent.

Don't you mean irrelevant?

 

[Scodog10]

I think this shows a hole that exist in our list profile, in part brought about by the Wood, Jolly and Ball trades. The Wood trade was particularly damaging.

We traded early picks for these players. Ball and Jolly provided good leadership immediately but left a void a few years later, and Wood, no need to comment.

Unfortunately as a playing good they really didn't galvanise to get the obsolute best out of themselves.

Yeah the Wood trade hurts especially if we buy into the theory that Ward was the guy we were all over.

Another season out of Ball would have helped too.

 

[jackcass]

You need to watch more footy, TD. Edwards is a fantastic player these days and plays his role very well. Makes things happen and sets up a lot. Deledio the same and he's been that way for a decade. Rance also been arguably the best key defender in the league for the past two years.

Pies will naturally get more elite players as we rise up. Sidey, Treloar, Adams, De Goey, Grundy, maybe Marley all chances to get there in the next few years and stay there. And Reid if he stays fit.

I don't think anyone would dispute the Edwards is a good footballer. It's the concept that 1 very good season somehow elevates any player to elite status or conversely 1 below average season undermines a players elite status which is the premise of the story. I do think the "elite" tag is thrown around way too liberally these days.

 

[Anzacday]

It will be good to see a practice game next week.
I'm sick of dicks and digits de-railing our pre-season!