Collingwood 2016 Pre-Season Discussion

[Buena]

Thank you sir. What can I say, just love sport too much. First thing I do in the morning is check out news on Collingwood & Leeds United. I'm hooked.
The Mrs understands completely. She knows nearly all the Collingwood players now. I've done well.

Leeds United? Talk about long suffering! (and this from a Liverpool supporter...) Falls from grace don't come much bigger than Leeds. They're hanging in their in the Championship, I'm always hoping they'll get promoted. Hopefully one year soon!

 

[CFC2010]

Way to poke the bear...

You only live once Scodog!

 

[good4footy]

Not Collingwood 2016 Pre-Season related but I thought I would share with the group anyway (even if I will probably get bagged out)

Had a chat with a sales rep today who's son is a rookie at the Hawks.

He told me that Jordan Lewis was ripping shreds into the players because they missed targets during a training session the other day. His son was quite shocked at how serious he was taking it.

IMO it just goes to show what it takes to be the best and maintain it.

Pretty sure they wouldn't be playing frisbee

I get what you are trying to say about on field intensity but how is the frisbee incident an example of that. Their Captain drives drunk and a couple of their players are under investigation for rape. I'd take the frisbee / cricket whatever incident over those two.

Even the 3x premiers have players that do the wrong thing / make mistakes.

 

[CFC2010]

I get what you are trying to say about on field intensity but how is the frisbee incident an example of that. Their Captain drives drunk and a couple of their players are under investigation for rape. I'd take the frisbee / cricket whatever incident over those two.

Even the 3x premiers have players that do the wrong thing / make mistakes.

Glass houses much good4footy?

Wellingham = Losing TAC sponsorship for .05

"That" player who got a "get out of jail card" after the 2010 premiership for rape!

The frisbee remark related to "professionalism" something our Club could learn a thing or two from the Hawks.

That was the point of my irrelevant post.

 

[Scodog10]

You only live once Scodog!

It's just a different culture and I think you're fighting a losing battle personally even if it is one I'd love you to win!

I get what you are trying to say about on field intensity but how is the frisbee incident an example of that. Their Captain drives drunk and a couple of their players are under investigation for rape. I'd take the frisbee / cricket whatever incident over those two.

Even the 3x premiers have players that do the wrong thing / make mistakes.

I thought it was more about the demands that the senior players have of the rest of their list and we all make mistakes.

Could you see Swan doing that? Or Toovey? Or Blair? Or Steele? Or Goldsack? Or Reid? Or Cloke? Or even Pendles? The only players on on our list over 25 that I could picture seriously demanding more of their teammates in that sort of manner are Brown and Varcoe.

It's certainly coming from beneath with the likes of Adams, Grundy, Marsh and JDG seeming to be cut from the same cloth as Lewis, but that drive to be the very best over a long period of time or for lack of a better term "intangible" of leadership isn't apparent in many of our senior players. They're certainly good footballers, but there has been a serious leadership void post 2013, IMO.

 

[good4footy]

Glass houses much good4footy?

Wellingham = Losing TAC sponsorship for .05

"That" player who got a "get out of jail card" after the 2010 premiership for rape!

The frisbee remark related to "professionalism" something our Club could learn a thing or two from the Hawks.

That was the point of my irrelevant post.

Mate settle. Where did I say anything about our club being clean or your post being irrelevant.

As to professionalism I brought up two examples of unprofessional behaviour by the premiers including their captain. You did the comparison not me.

 

[good4footy]

It's just a different culture and I think you're fighting a losing battle personally even if it is one I'd love you to win!



I thought it was more about the demands that the senior players have of the rest of their list and we all make mistakes.

Could you see Swan doing that? Or Toovey? Or Blair? Or Steele? Or Goldsack? Or Reid? Or Cloke? Or even Pendles? The only players on on our list over 25 that I could picture seriously demanding more of their teammates in that sort of manner are Brown and Varcoe.

It's certainly coming from beneath with the likes of Adams, Grundy, Marsh and JDG seeming to be cut from the same cloth as Lewis, but that drive to be the very best over a long period of time or for lack of a better term "intangible" of leadership isn't apparent in many of our senior players. They're certainly good footballers, but there has been a serious leadership void post 2013, IMO.

Not sure what battle I'm trying to win. I actually agree with the fact a 3x premier would have it over most clubs regards expectations on field. Wish we had the same standard.

I used 2 examples from the premiers to show that they also make mistakes off field- like the frisbee or cricket incident (or however it happened). On field no comparison but the frisbee incident is not a great example to indicate leadership differences between the two clubs- which was my point.

 

[CFC2010]

I get what you are trying to say about on field intensity but how is the frisbee incident an example of that. Their Captain drives drunk and a couple of their players are under investigation for rape. I'd take the frisbee / cricket whatever incident over those two.

Even the 3x premiers have players that do the wrong thing / make mistakes.

Mate settle. Where did I say anything about our club being clean or your post being irrelevant.

As to professionalism I brought up two examples of unprofessional behaviour by the premiers including their captain. You did the comparison not me.

Our Club has done exactly the same two things you brought up in your example which you said you would prefer.

So I am a little confused with your rational.

Back on topic our Club is light years away from the Hawks in terms of professionalism and that is why I shared this story even if I knew I would get shot down.

For the "facts police" on Bigfooty I would like to provide a disclaimer that this is just my opinion.

 

[good4footy]

Our Club has done exactly the same two things you brought up in your example which you said you would prefer.

So I am a little confused with your rational.

Back on topic our Club is light years away from the Hawks in terms of professionalism and that is why I shared this story even if I knew I would get shot down.

For the "facts police" on Bigfooty I would like to provide a disclaimer that this is just my opinion.

Read my response to Scodog- hope that helps. There wouldn't be a person that understands culture and leadership that would not think that the Hawks would be streets ahead in those areas to most clubs and especially ours.

You used a poor example to highlight that and neglect to accept that the Hawks are no different to nearly all clubs off field.

 

[Scodog10]

Not sure what battle I'm trying to win. I actually agree with the fact a 3x premier would have it over most clubs regards expectations on field. Wish we had the same standard.

I used 2 examples from the premiers to show that they also make mistakes off field- like the frisbee or cricket incident (or however it happened). On field no comparison but the frisbee incident is not a great example to indicate leadership differences between the two clubs- which was my point.

No battles, I think you might just be missing exactly why the frisbee incident was so significant. It wasn't because of the injury, but because he played cricket the day before whilst he is in the rehab group. That never would have made it into the public forum without the frisbee furore.

I personally don't remember another case of something like that taking place and when Hodge was done for drink driving he was punished for it by the leadership group. Have our leaders punished Howe for his unprofessional decision? Or was he more alarmingly given permission by the medical staff?

I do get your point that Hawthorn have had their fair share of off field indiscretions, but I don't think something like what Howe has done would get through to the keeper, IMO, and I'd love to hear the leadership come out and say that he'll spend an extra week at VFL level for the cricket match. If he wasn't recovering from the hotspot go for it, but I can't let what he did slide personally. Sorry for rambling!

 

[Bard]

No battles, I think you might just be missing exactly why the frisbee incident was so significant. It wasn't because of the injury, but because he played cricket the day before whilst he is in the rehab group. That never would have made it into the public forum without the frisbee furore.

I personally don't remember another case of something like that taking place and when Hodge was done for drink driving he was punished for it by the leadership group. Have our leaders punished Howe for his unprofessional decision? Or was he more alarmingly given permission by the medical staff?

I do get your point that Hawthorn have had their fair share of off field indiscretions, but I don't think something like what Howe has done would get through to the keeper, IMO, and I'd love to hear the leadership come out and say that he'll spend an extra week at VFL level for the cricket match. If he wasn't recovering from the hotspot go for it, but I can't let what he did slide personally. Sorry for rambling!

Hodge was punished? Bullshit, he got nothing from Hawthorn or the media really for what he did. Does this excuse Howe, or the way we've gone about treating the incident? No, of course not, but knowing Buckley he'd have had a few choice words behind doors with him, considering his demand for player dedication which as driven away more than a few individuals.

 

[TradeDraft]

Love This Picture:

 

[Scodog10]

Hodge was punished? Bullshit, he got nothing from Hawthorn or the media really for what he did. Does this excuse Howe, or the way we've gone about treating the incident? No, of course not, but knowing Buckley he'd have had a few choice words behind doors with him, considering his demand for player dedication which as driven away more than a few individuals.

He was fined the maximum allowed under the AFLPA code and suspending him helps who exactly? If the roles were reversed and Swan was stood down from a final for the same thing there would have been blood in the streets.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-09-05/hawks-hand-hodge-fine

Knowing Clarko he would have received more than a few choice words behind closed doors, then he would have copped them from Chris Fagan, Jordan Lewis, Jarryd Roughead, Sam Mitcheel and Shaun Burgoyne. I know who cops it worse out of that one...

 

[PicaBoo]

Love This Picture:

We should sponsor one of them, don't you think?

 

[TradeDraft]

We should sponsor one of them, don't you think?

Be a Good Idea

 

[good4footy]

No battles, I think you might just be missing exactly why the frisbee incident was so significant. It wasn't because of the injury, but because he played cricket the day before whilst he is in the rehab group. That never would have made it into the public forum without the frisbee furore.

I personally don't remember another case of something like that taking place and when Hodge was done for drink driving he was punished for it by the leadership group. Have our leaders punished Howe for his unprofessional decision? Or was he more alarmingly given permission by the medical staff?

I do get your point that Hawthorn have had their fair share of off field indiscretions, but I don't think something like what Howe has done would get through to the keeper, IMO, and I'd love to hear the leadership come out and say that he'll spend an extra week at VFL level for the cricket match. If he wasn't recovering from the hotspot go for it, but I can't let what he did slide personally. Sorry for rambling!

Yep no comparison between the two clubs regards leadership and expectations on players. I have argued no different. In fact we have made a habit of people taking short cuts and getting away with it ( from an outsiders perspective anyway) Dale Thomas being allowed to go overseas and make an ad and go surfing with his ankle pre season is one example.

All I highlighted was that even the best are not always professional. Drinking and driving a few days before a match was one example and to be fair it was not much of a punishment for what he did, especially only a few weeks after getting suspended for a pretty weak on field act.

It seems to me that those that can't see the club doing anything right and those that can't see the club doing anything wrong are quick to anger when challenged. I thought my response was a pretty measured one to the original poster.

 

[CFC2010]

Yep no comparison between the two clubs regards leadership and expectations on players. I have argued no different. In fact we have made a habit of people taking short cuts and getting away with it ( from an outsiders perspective anyway) Dale Thomas being allowed to go overseas and make an ad and go surfing with his ankle pre season is one example.

All I highlighted was that even the best are not always professional. Drinking and driving a few days before a match was one example and to be fair it was not much of a punishment for what he did, especially only a few weeks after getting suspended for a pretty weak on field act.

It seems to me that those that can't see the club doing anything right and those that can't see the club doing anything wrong are quick to anger when challenged. I thought my response was a pretty measured one to the original poster.

Like I said your two examples our Club has replicated, so they are irrelevant.

As for questioning Hodge's integrity and standing in the game because of his drink driving offence and suspension on field is laughable. Let's just agree to disagree on that one.

Give me back-back-back-? anyday.

I just hope Bucks hasn't sugar coated the "frisbee gate" like some.

 

[popin]

We should sponsor one of them, don't you think?

3mins ago
Adam_Trolloar ‏@AdamTrolloar
How much money do you have in the bank PicaBoo? I think you should sponsor me PicaBoo as I want to buy another Jeep for the Mrs #gopies #trolloarlovesyouall

 

[Scodog10]

Yep no comparison between the two clubs regards leadership and expectations on players. I have argued no different. In fact we have made a habit of people taking short cuts and getting away with it ( from an outsiders perspective anyway) Dale Thomas being allowed to go overseas and make an ad and go surfing with his ankle pre season is one example.

All I highlighted was that even the best are not always professional. Drinking and driving a few days before a match was one example and to be fair it was not much of a punishment for what he did, especially only a few weeks after getting suspended for a pretty weak on field act.

It seems to me that those that can't see the club doing anything right and those that can't see the club doing anything wrong are quick to anger when challenged. I thought my response was a pretty measured one to the original poster.

I might refer to my previous post for the Hodge punishment because I don't think there was anything else they could do with the AFLPA's restrictions on fines.

I can assure you CFC falls into neither of those categories. Your response was fine, IMO.

 

[good4footy]

Like I said your two examples our Club has replicated, so they are irrelevant.

As for questioning Hodge's integrity and standing in the game because of his drink driving offence and suspension on field is laughable. Let's just agree to disagree on that one.

Give me back-back-back-? anyday.

I just hope Bucks hasn't sugar coated the "frisbee gate" like some.

With all due respect the only thing laughable is your comprehension of the written word. Please don't put words in my mouth. None of the above has anything to do with the point I am making. I will leave you to it.

 

[PicaBoo]

3mins ago
Adam_Trolloar ‏@AdamTrolloar
How much money do you have in the bank PicaBoo? I think you should sponsor me PicaBoo as I want to buy another Jeep for the Mrs #gopies #trolloarlovesyouall

 

[Bard]

He was fined the maximum allowed under the AFLPA code and suspending him helps who exactly? If the roles were reversed and Swan was stood down from a final for the same thing there would have been blood in the streets.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-09-05/hawks-hand-hodge-fine

Knowing Clarko he would have received more than a few choice words behind closed doors, then he would have copped them from Chris Fagan, Jordan Lewis, Jarryd Roughead, Sam Mitcheel and Shaun Burgoyne. I know who cops it worse out of that one...

I'm not so sure about Mitchell/Roughead/Lewis really laying the heat on over drink driving. Maybe they'd have a go at him for drawing extra attention heading into finals but that's not really the point when it comes to drink driving now is it?

To me, based on the media reporting and the interviews etc it was very much treated as a 'joke' incident by Hawthorn (and by a lot of reporters too it must be said), a bit like Richmond and Martin, and of course us and Howe. I can't really blame clubs for putting their own interests ahead of that of anyone else's but with all this talk of 'culture' in recent years it's pretty apparent it's only a priority when it suits the clubs, which is a bit of a cop out.

 

[CFC2010]

All I highlighted was that even the best are not always professional. Drinking and driving a few days before a match was one example and to be fair it was not much of a punishment for what he did, especially only a few weeks after getting suspended for a pretty weak on field act.

It seems to me that those that can't see the club doing anything right and those that can't see the club doing anything wrong are quick to anger when challenged. I thought my response was a pretty measured one to the original poster.

Your word re Hodge above and if you think the second bolded is my gripe you are mistaken once again.

Like Scodog said I am fighting a losing battle.......doesn't mean I won't try again that is just my DNA.

Have a good night goo4footy i am of to bed its been fun

 

[popin]

3h3 hours ago
Adam_Trolloar ‏@AdamTrolloar
On second thoughts PicaBoo Swanny is doing it tough with a burnt down pub, but needs some cash to replace Dusty's new chopsticks he broke playing around while taking sexties holding a special tattooed sausage roll. So sponsor chopswann#gopies

 

[Scodog10]

I'm not so sure about Mitchell/Roughead/Lewis really laying the heat on over drink driving. Maybe they'd have a go at him for drawing extra attention heading into finals but that's not really the point when it comes to drink driving now is it?

To me, based on the media reporting and the interviews etc it was very much treated as a 'joke' incident by Hawthorn (and by a lot of reporters too it must be said), a bit like Richmond and Martin, and of course us and Howe. I can't really blame clubs for putting their own interests ahead of that of anyone else's but with all this talk of 'culture' in recent years it's pretty apparent it's only a priority when it suits the clubs, which is a bit of a cop out.

Whatever path your taking count me out. The Hawks punishment was appropriate, IMO, and you know he was punished at least...