Collingwood Almanac 2014

[Apex36]

With better roving skills and more attacking flair.

Yeah I can see the similarities lol.

Hey. They're both short and play football. There's two similarities. How many more do you need?

 

[MeisterBot]

Would not be too chuffed if Kennedy becomes Blair+, seeing as that's Ben McGlynn. And McGlynn is in ripping form this year.

Also has a touch of class to get the impossible goals that neither Blair nor McGlynn have.

 

[popin]

KM isn't it to early to compare BK to harvey - Harvey was equally thought of BK at the same age, he became a star at a much older age than BK is today. So BK has time.

Pretty stupid judgin a kid (BK) who has not played week in and week out for atleast 60 games straight dont ya think? BK like a modern version of Tony McGuinness cos boomer is not as hard.

 

[Jonno94]

Shane Crawford is a far better comparison for Kenno, hopefully he can become just as good.

 

[mike123]

Would not be too chuffed if Kennedy becomes Blair+, seeing as that's Ben McGlynn. And McGlynn is in ripping form this year.

Also has a touch of class to get the impossible goals that neither Blair nor McGlynn have.

McGlynn kicked an impossible goal a few weeks back.

 

[tommyv49]

Kennedy can be a long term player. He can be a top 15 player for him. Top 10? Not unless we have a very weak top end and aren't contending.



The difference in assessment comes from our views of Kennedy's outside ability.

It's something I hope he develops but I don't at this point agree with that one specific aspect of your assessment.

I would be likely to agree with this summary, but all players mature differently BK could become a top 5 player for our club who knows.

 

[Knightmare]

I would be likely to agree with this summary, but all players mature differently BK could become a top 5 player for our club who knows.

With Kennedy he matured as a 16/17 year old.

It's almost always the taller types who mature later and have that sharper upward development in their play over the years. There isn't a great deal more maturing likely with Kennedy who largely has always been pretty much the player he is today with in the most part only slight natural improvement to his inside game.

He's a guy where he was always or should have been drafted based on the player he was on draft day because as a small it's in the most part a case of what you see is what you're going to continue to get. Not that what we were seeing was bad, he had one of the most exceptional junior careers, played strong footy in the SANFL seniors and dominated through the u18 champs against still maturing players. But that's the view you have to take with the smalls in the most part and particularly those smalls who are more inside than outside specialists.

Shane Crawford is a far better comparison for Kenno, hopefully he can become just as good.

Kennedy isn't that same elite endurance runner or same outside accumulator Crawford is. He's hardly likely to win a Brownlow or achieve anything remotely comparable.

 

[mike123]

With Kennedy he matured as a 16/17 year old.

It's almost always the taller types who mature later and have that sharper upward development in their play over the years. There isn't a great deal more maturing likely with Kennedy who largely has always been pretty much the player he is today with in the most part only slight natural improvement to his inside game.

He's a guy where he was always or should have been drafted based on the player he was on draft day because as a small it's in the most part a case of what you see is what you're going to continue to get. Not that what we were seeing was bad, he had one of the most exceptional junior careers, played strong footy in the SANFL seniors and dominated through the u18 champs against still maturing players. But that's the view you have to take with the smalls in the most part and particularly those smalls who are more inside than outside specialists.



Kennedy isn't that same elite endurance runner or same outside accumulator Crawford is. He's hardly likely to win a Brownlow or achieve anything remotely comparable.

Stokes had a massive improvement late in his career.

 

[tommyv49]

With Kennedy he matured as a 16/17 year old.

It's almost always the taller types who mature later and have that sharper upward development in their play over the years. There isn't a great deal more maturing likely with Kennedy who largely has always been pretty much the player he is today with in the most part only slight natural improvement to his inside game.

He's a guy where he was always or should have been drafted based on the player he was on draft day because as a small it's in the most part a case of what you see is what you're going to continue to get. Not that what we were seeing was bad, he had one of the most exceptional junior careers, played strong footy in the SANFL seniors and dominated through the u18 champs against still maturing players. But that's the view you have to take with the smalls in the most part and particularly those smalls who are more inside than outside specialists.

Surely when club drafted him they looked at him being better than just a top 15 player though?

 

[Quicky]

He's a guy where he was always or should have been drafted based on the player he was on draft day because as a small it's in the most part a case of what you see is what you're going to continue to get. Not that what we were seeing was bad, he had one of the most exceptional junior careers, played strong footy in the SANFL seniors and dominated through the u18 champs against still maturing players. But that's the view you have to take with the smalls in the most part and particularly those smalls who are more inside than outside specialists.

You seem to have a very strong opinion that shorter players will not improve from what they produce as 18 year olds. While I do agree in some part to the theory that you want to see an upward trend in development, you want to see those players making those performances in higher level competitions as juniors (in Kennedys case in the SANFL and for SA U18's) in assessing them prior to drafting them. And that should hold weight. But I can't help but feel you are being far too rigid in your belief that shorter players do not have the capacity to improve. I think this belief is a bit misguided.

It's just one, but take the example of Dion Prestia. He like Kennedy is a shorter player with an inside game. I guess the one point of difference is his kicking penetration. He showed glimpses early days at GC but was an inconsistent performer. With exposure to AFL footy over several seasons he has really come into his own and is now a quality AFL standard midfielder. That's the benefit of experience. I think we should all hope for a similar trend in Kennedy over the next two - three years for us. I don't believe that is beyond the realms of possibility.

 

[loki04]

Kennedy is not an inside mid like prestia or Adams etc.

Also when people make comparison to x player it is usually in style or to go on to play a similar role.
Its not an achievement comparison or games played comparison or even saying the kid is as good as them.

But who is to say he wont become an AA level player? Silly to put a limit on a young talented kid.

 

[Quicky]

Kennedy is not an inside mid like prestia or Adams etc.

Also when people make comparison to x player it is usually in style or to go on to play a similar role.
Its not an achievement comparison or games played comparison or even saying the kid is as good as them.

But who is to say he wont become an AA level player? Silly to put a limit on a young talented kid.

Yeah I agree with this. I don't usually make player comparisons but it seemed appropriate. I do see Kennedy as more an inside mid type but his outside game has been underrated in this thread too. The point I was making, and which I hope came across, was that I think we would be remiss to underestimate a players capacity to improve - especially when the parallel is drawn to performances made in U18 footy.

 

[loki04]

Imo he will project as an attacking mid who pushes fwd and kicks goals. Pacey with a quick moving penetrating kick.
He is capable in a contested situation and in time should see his outside game increase with fitness.
Which is where my boomer comparisons come in.

 

[Pendles!]

Whats your view on Devon Smith Knightmare?

 

[Scodog10]

I fall into the KM side of the equation on this in that Kennedy is an upgrade on Blair.

Forget Boomer it's a silly comparison. He will never be fed the ball that Boomer is on the outside and he has twice the inside game of Boomer (not to mention that at roughly the same age Boomer played for Victoria). The comparison is only being made on size.

When looking at Kennedy he's a small inside mid with pace. Treloar would be an absolute best case, but Kennedy has the limitations of 3-4 less inches and poorer kicking consistency which will always hold him back. Perhaps Keiran Jack with more pace, but with the likes of Adams, Pendles and Beams preferred on the inside I'm skeptical that he'll get the minutes to develop to that level. Not to mention that he definitely isn't as strong defensively.

From there you could say if he develops his outside game he could be such and such. Well yeah he could, but with the Steele, Broomhead, Seedsman and perhaps Freeman on the outside why would we funnel footy through Kennedy? He isn't an elite runner so he won't find the space of a Crawford on the outside.

He'll likely have a long and fruitful career with us, but long term will be a 10-15 list fit with good and bad seasons. If you're expecting a top 6-8 type contending for B&F's and AA's you'll likely be disappointed.

Hot tip Loki Broomhead is your Boomer! Very neat skills, strong outside game, fantastic spacial awareness, plenty of pace and is stepping up his game a new level every year! He's our franchise mid moving forward without a doubt and with size will start to dominate within the next 18-24 months.

 

[mike123]

Knightmare are there any small forwards late in the draft that have the ability to consistently read crumbs and crumb the pack at full speed?

 

[Knightmare]

You seem to have a very strong opinion that shorter players will not improve from what they produce as 18 year olds. While I do agree in some part to the theory that you want to see an upward trend in development, you want to see those players making those performances in higher level competitions as juniors (in Kennedys case in the SANFL and for SA U18's) in assessing them prior to drafting them. And that should hold weight. But I can't help but feel you are being far too rigid in your belief that shorter players do not have the capacity to improve. I think this belief is a bit misguided.

It's just one, but take the example of Dion Prestia. He like Kennedy is a shorter player with an inside game. I guess the one point of difference is his kicking penetration. He showed glimpses early days at GC but was an inconsistent performer. With exposure to AFL footy over several seasons he has really come into his own and is now a quality AFL standard midfielder. That's the benefit of experience. I think we should all hope for a similar trend in Kennedy over the next two - three years for us. I don't believe that is beyond the realms of possibility.

Part of it is those shorter types as a rule typically dominate as juniors and fail to develop their games thereafter. You only have to watch underage footy in any state to see it year after year.

The other indicator of future development is continued upward growth and development.

Dion Prestia since you use him as an example, he has shown continued upward growth every year in the AFL since his arrival which is a continuation of the way his junior career was trending. He had a breakout third season but his numbers overall and contested ball numbers have continued that onward trend if you were to graph his numbers.

Kennedy's numbers have also track upward but not as sharply and understanding what he can/can't do his primary and I'd argue only improvement since his junior career has been in the continued growth in his contested ball winning and inside game. As a result of this less rapid growth in his game projecting reasonably he's not going to have the career of Prestia at AFL level.

Doesn't mean Kennedy isn't making the grade but projecting ahead objectively I'm not anticipating he reaches the top 10 on a list heights of Prestia with Kennedy more someone where if he becomes a top 10-15 player for us, that's a good outcome.

You don't set caps on anyone and you train everyone to become the best they can be, but when evaluating talent it's about realistically projecting who they're likely to become and not looking at guys as a fan thinking everyone will develop into stars.

I find among fans there is a general view that athleticism equates to upside but I'd advise caution with this view and recommend looking closer at the way the players game and their numbers are trending for a more accurate idea of how they're tracking and based on that improvement reasonably estimating how much more is to come.

Whats your view on Devon Smith Knightmare?

Good but not great small forward. He's got some Ben McGlynn as that similar small forward who can also play some midfield.

He's not super quick and given he was a top 10 pick not long ago you'd have to overpay for him which I'm not keen to do when he doesn't really give us so specifically what we most need up front.

Knightmare are there any small forwards late in the draft that have the ability to consistently read crumbs and crumb the pack at full speed?

It's all about Jeff Garlett for me during trade week.

Through the draft there are no crumbing forwards who really appeal.

Toby McLean as a small marking forward not unlike Elliott I really like with how rapidly he's improving, he may even be available as a rookie. Also Aidan Anderson from WA can really play and reminds me some of Fasolo with his front half talent but again not that extremely quick forward, mid draft he could be an option.

Francis Watson may be one further guy to look out for. He's an overage indigenous football who has played down back this year but last year he was playing forward and can play some forward. Again not super, super quick but moves well and can play some forward and crumb.

 

[Knightmare]

Hot tip Loki Broomhead is your Boomer! Very neat skills, strong outside game, fantastic spacial awareness, plenty of pace and is stepping up his game a new level every year! He's our franchise mid moving forward without a doubt and with size will start to dominate within the next 18-24 months.

I'm with you on Broomhead. He's not Boomer great but he's got top 10 on list talent and has the ability to be a serious difference maker for us long term.

I've been optimistic for some time with Broomhead and glad to see him start strongly tonight with the two goals in Q1.

 

[loki04]

I fall into the KM side of the equation on this in that Kennedy is an upgrade on Blair.

Forget Boomer it's a silly comparison. He will never be fed the ball that Boomer is on the outside and he has twice the inside game of Boomer (not to mention that at roughly the same age Boomer played for Victoria). The comparison is only being made on size.

When looking at Kennedy he's a small inside mid with pace. Treloar would be an absolute best case, but Kennedy has the limitations of 3-4 less inches and poorer kicking consistency which will always hold him back. Perhaps Keiran Jack with more pace, but with the likes of Adams, Pendles and Beams preferred on the inside I'm skeptical that he'll get the minutes to develop to that level. Not to mention that he definitely isn't as strong defensively.

From there you could say if he develops his outside game he could be such and such. Well yeah he could, but with the Steele, Broomhead, Seedsman and perhaps Freeman on the outside why would we funnel footy through Kennedy? He isn't an elite runner so he won't find the space of a Crawford on the outside.

He'll likely have a long and fruitful career with us, but long term will be a 10-15 list fit with good and bad seasons. If you're expecting a top 6-8 type contending for B&F's and AA's you'll likely be disappointed.

Hot tip Loki Broomhead is your Boomer! Very neat skills, strong outside game, fantastic spacial awareness, plenty of pace and is stepping up his game a new level every year! He's our franchise mid moving forward without a doubt and with size will start to dominate within the next 18-24 months.

Broomhead is different to Boomer again, Broomhead maybe more outside then Kennedy but plays much different to Harvey.

My Boomer comparison is more to the attacking mid who pushes forward and goals on the run at pace.

As I said Kennedy has a naturally better inside game but isn't purely inside mid like Treloar so again disagree with your assessment there too.

Also why are people bringing up top 15 on list aa's etc? it was a future role/style like comparison I believe he has the tools (needs to work on tank) to become and also address the nonsense about comparing players and people arguing against due to the elite players achieves....

I guess I disagree and will leave it that.

 

[loki04]

I'm with you on Broomhead. He's not Boomer great but he's got top 10 on list talent and has the ability to be a serious difference maker for us long term.

I've been optimistic for some time with Broomhead and glad to see him start strongly tonight with the two goals in Q1.

Again....

Do people on here really compare young talent not on style / future role and more on if the can be the same on the individual achievement list? lmao really? really?

I hope none of you compare any future players to Simon Black or Ill whip out he will never play in 3 flags so nah not him, fair dinkum.

 

[Knightmare]

Again....

Do people on here really compare young talent not on style / future role and more on if the can be the same on the individual achievement list? lmao really? really?

I hope none of you compare any future players to Simon Black or Ill whip out he will never play in 3 flags so nah not him, fair dinkum.

You've interpreted my post differently to how it was intended to read.

The Boomer reference is in response to the post I was quoting. I was only saying Broomhead is not as good and won't be as good. No comparison was made relating to gamestyle.

On style Broomhead if looking for a good name. He's got some Paul Williams. A poor mans version admittedly but that's more who he plays like for a game some 90s Pies fans will remember.

On Broomhead my comment is he can be a top 10 player for the club and is a better and better rounded talent than Kennedy.

 

[Scodog10]

Again....

Do people on here really compare young talent not on style / future role and more on if the can be the same on the individual achievement list? lmao really? really?

I hope none of you compare any future players to Simon Black or Ill whip out he will never play in 3 flags so nah not him, fair dinkum.

Off your high horse Loki your comparing Ben Kennedy to him lol. FWIW Boomer is incomparable there's never been a player like him before and never will again stylistically though Broomhead is more his ilk than Kennedy ever will be!

 

[loki04]

Off your high horse Loki your comparing Ben Kennedy to him lol. FWIW Boomer is incomparable there's never been a player like him before and never will again stylistically though Broomhead is more his ilk than Kennedy ever will be!

I'm saying I can see Kennedy filling a similar role ie attacking mid who push' fwd and kicks goals at pace.
In time..That is where my boomer comparison comes from...I believe he has the tools to do it and he does as long as he works hard enough to build up his tank.

You guys are too hung up on Boomers achievements and status in the game of which there was not meant to be any comparison, also Broomhead is nothing like him other then the fact you see them both as outsiders.

 

[Knightmare]

You guys are too hung up on Boomers achievements and status in the game of which there was not meant to be any comparison, also Broomhead is nothing like him other then the fact you see them both as outsiders.

Broomhead can play inside/outside. He can play either/or/both as required. Mid/fwd/back even.

He's got the versatility Kennedy doesn't with Kennedy's scoreboard impact when forward mild as a non crumber and non marking forward. Kennedy is good running into an open goal and can launch from 55m if you give him the opportunity but they're more the situations when he can be a threat.

 

[soreplums]

Any fringe players we can package up with a second round/third round that might give us a chance at upgrading to a late first round, early second round pick?