List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade Talk 2015

[jjsmitty8]

I know which thread to come to if I ever have a down day. Plenty of optimism here lol

 

[Chrispiesssss]

I think Witts will end up at Sydney. Pyke seems to be getting a lot of negative criticism. He's 31 next year. Witts is a Sydney boy too.

 

[Matt_352]

I think Witts will end up at Sydney. Pyke seems to be getting a lot of negative criticism. He's 31 next year. Witts is a Sydney boy too.

Witts for Reid?

 

[ThexderX]

When September came around and Geelong started wobbling it was Ottens that saw them through. Remember the 07 Prelim?

Thinking about the original post, what about the following names: Barry Hall, Gavin Wanganeen, Darren Jarman and Greg Williams?

Duly noted, but my original post was about payer 'overs'. No doubting players from other clubs help win premierships, but there are few examples of clubs paying way over a players true market value.

 

[Unknown Identity]

I think Witts will end up at Sydney. Pyke seems to be getting a lot of negative criticism. He's 31 next year. Witts is a Sydney boy too.

He's actually 32 as of next season.

Which is why the Swans are after Berger, but surely Witts should be looked at too.

I didn't realise Pyke was that old.

 

[ThexderX]

If Ottens was was a Magpie I guarantee you we would have won in 07. He slaughtered Guy Richards and Chris Bryan in the 07 prelim. I never rated him at Richmond but once he stacked on the kg's he became a man mountain.

He wasn't beating much in 07 prelim... My memory was our rucks were flogged every week until Jolly joined us in 2010.

Again my point was about paying overs for other clubs stars, not about successful recruits in general.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

Witts for Reid?

I actually wouldn't mind Reid. He's literally a nobody in Sydney with buddy,tippet, Goodes! He could actually be really useful for us. He's gonna be 24 next year which is actually perfect for us! Perfect age correlation for the forward line. He doesnt have a position he belongs to in Sydney. Bring him to the pies, and dump him in the forward line next to Cloke and Moore!

 

[Lefthanded]

Yeah it doesn't at all really. I guess a simple just trust me might have been more appropriate because I'm aware KB's comments weren't worth a pinch of s**t...

Also are you sure you haven't got your roles mixed up with Balmey too? Yeah he's on the list management sub-committee, but in terms of practical input his would be minimal. The role he's filled in 2015 has been more of an advisory one than anything else.

I'm no expert on NB's role but as I understand it part of Mitch's choice of Geelong last year was uni for the Mrs. Rumours this year of AT choosing Pies in part due to job for the Mrs. Common denominator NB? If his practical input is minimal and it can play a part in getting AT than I'm all for quality input at the right times in right doses.

 

[TradeDraft]

I doubt Witts will go anywhere

 

[Chrispiesssss]

He's actually 32 as of next season.

Which is why the Swans are after Berger, but surely Witts should be looked at too.

I didn't realise Pyke was that old.

Oh, my bad! Yea, he's really pushing the limit! That just goes to show how dumb Sydney are with the whole buddy trade.
They gave up Malceski, Mumford- both all Australian gun players who could be helping them for another premiership, yet they chased a massive name and paid him too much. Now he's got a dodgy back for the next 465 years of his contract.

Leunberger was heavily linked with Geelong, if that means anything.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

I doubt Witts will go anywhere

I just don't think he's gonna want to play in the VFL for most of next year. Buckely has seemed adamant on playing Grundy by his own. Witts has been 100% injury free this year, and only played 11 games. Obviously, it seems like Grundy is the future.

 

[Lefthanded]

if we do keep Witts, we are essentially committing to a forward line of: Cloke,Moore,Witts/Grundy.
We are also committing to playing both. There's no way Witts will play in the reserves, when he can get an opportunity at the Dogs,Cats, Blues, Bombers.
You would think we would have no need for Reid or White in the forward line.
I think most of us agree that 3 talls are probably enough.
Does anyone think that Witts and Grundy:
A) work together
B) be a dominant resting Ruckman.

Plus, the growth of Cox has been impressive. So essentially, Witts is depth.
I personally don't think it's worth keeping both ruckman. Eg: Hawthorns: McEvoy, Hale, Ceglar are all very mobile good ruckman and contribute most weeks on the scoreboard. And one of them plays in the VFL every week, it's a tough gig.

First rounder for Witts would be ideal, but you can never be certain.

Bolded - currently no.
Potentially - yes.
Key factor is developing contested marking. Witts' kicking seems to be pretty good and I'm keen to see him next year at the Pies with another year under his belt and without coming off shoulder surgery.

Yes Witts could get opportunities elsewhere (not so sure on Dogs given they haven't used Minson much and Cats looked pretty handy & mobile with Stanley & Blicavs earlier in year) but Grundy is only 21 so need's support next year. Witts' is contracted and proven (people seem to quickly forget he performed well in ruck against GWS (Mumford), Hawks & Port). Cox (I'm as hopeful as most) is still a project. I'm not a fan of getting Kreuzer as some seem to be.

I expect if Witts is still on our list next year that he & Grundy will play some games together and some each as main ruck (White, Moore or Cox providing relief). Buckley I think wants every position to have multiple players striving to demand selection. Competition for spots is part of getting the best out of every player.

 

[MeisterBot]

Will be spewing if we let Witts go. AFL is littered with stories of ruckmen who do all their development at one club but can't get a game so they get to another club and start killing it. And I still think Witts can work as a forward like Tippett and Mitch Clark turned from ruckman to forward if he just bulks up and holds his marks. He gets his hands to plenty, meaning that he reads the drop of the ball well. Just needs to have the strength to hold them. Would be the ultimate get out of jail long kick from defence option, and one out in the forward line.

That said I'm only 90% against the move now, whereas I used to be 100% against the move before. Mason Cox might end up pushing Witts out of our best structure anyway.

However, I'll be back to 100% against it if we let Witts go and chase Kreuzer. Kreuzer is a #1 ruck or nothing. Not compatible with Grundy unless Grundy builds up his forward game. Unlike Witts, he's not a good lead so although he definitely could have the strength to play out of the goal square, I'm not so sure if it'll work out.

My mind flip flops on this issue a lot. But I want Witts and Grundy together. In the same team, even. At least for 2016.

 

[TradeDraft]

I just don't think he's gonna want to play in the VFL for most of next year. Buckely has seemed adamant on playing Grundy by his own. Witts has been 100% injury free this year, and only played 11 games. Obviously, it seems like Grundy is the future.

Heard Nothing that Witts is not happy.

See what happens next year.

IF he wants to leave for more Chances then its Fine but I would not give him away

 

[Lefthanded]

I just don't think he's gonna want to play in the VFL for most of next year. Buckely has seemed adamant on playing Grundy by his own. Witts has been 100% injury free this year, and only played 11 games. Obviously, it seems like Grundy is the future.

Shoulder surgery during off season has probably contributed to his marking being worse than last year (check stats eg http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...2=5&pid2=3701&type=A&fid1=S&fid2=P&fopt2=2014
Missed AFL & VFL in round 1 (AFL) due to injury and then spent 4 weeks in VFL obtaining match fitness / form.
Missed AFL & VFL in round 10 (AFL) due to injury.

 

[robertg22]

As to our VFL, its in its first year as a stand alone

Don't want to nitpick too much but it is the second year for the Richmond VFL side - you finished 12th on 6 wins last year, 1 more than this year.

 

[Tiger71]

Don't want to nitpick too much but it is the second year for the Richmond VFL side - you finished 12th on 6 wins last year, 1 more than this year.

Yeah realised that later, second year but again, we had whole sale changes to the side...still think we have a few years yet to we get the system right with our vfl side.

 

[Hardas]

I actually wouldn't mind Reid. He's literally a nobody in Sydney with buddy,tippet, Goodes! He could actually be really useful for us. He's gonna be 24 next year which is actually perfect for us! Perfect age correlation for the forward line. He doesnt have a position he belongs to in Sydney. Bring him to the pies, and dump him in the forward line next to Cloke and Moore!

Strong mark, iffy kick - perfect replacement for Clokey, long-term!

 

[robertg22]

Yeah realised that later, second year but again, we had whole sale changes to the side...still think we have a few years yet to we get the system right with our vfl side.

It does take a while. Speaking from experience though, you really want your VFL team in the finals when your AFL side is - gives the guys on the cusp of selection vital match practice.

 

[Apex36]

It does take a while. Speaking from experience though, you really want your VFL team in the finals when your AFL side is - gives the guys on the cusp of selection vital match practice.

A strong VFL side is a cornerstone of any successful AFL side. Think of the Hawks and Geelong, the Bulldogs have shot up the ladder after their VFL side won last year, and the pies had a reasonably strong side in 2009/10 too from memory.

 

[jjsmitty8]

I used to think that Witts was always a better tap ruckman and mark around the ground than Grundy, but what Grundy lacked there he well and truly made up for in aggression and tackling. Well, I don't know what the stats say but I feel as though Brodie has improved on his actual ruck craft and is getting around the ground as well as ever. He just needs to clunk more pack marks.

I don't hate Jarrod Witts, but I just think by playing two ruckmen, hinders Brodie's performances and one of them (sometimes both) become a liability in a game. Brodie relishes the solo ruck position and we're a much better side.

 

[Tiger71]

It does take a while. Speaking from experience though, you really want your VFL team in the finals when your AFL side is - gives the guys on the cusp of selection vital match practice.

I still remember our vfl side with spud winning the flag and us finishing 12 th but I hear ya

 

[Mazza12346]

Any chance we could sway jakey stringer to the pies lol. Would fit nicely into the forward line.

Any one see that goal he set up in the last quarter running though the centre square. The bloke is an absolute jet.

 

[robertg22]

I still remember our vfl side with spud winning the flag and us finishing 12 th but I hear ya

Yeah doesn't always work the other way, just saying you want your VFL side up and about around finals time to give guys an opportunity to gain match fitness at VFL if they need it. Just like Cyril playing the VFL grand final last year (well, most of it) and then being ready for the GF.

Not saying you can't go deep in the AFL finals without it, but it's a massive help.

 

[DWil6]

Any chance we could sway jakey stringer to the pies lol. Would fit nicely into the forward line.

Any one see that goal he set up in the last quarter running though the centre square. The bloke is an absolute jet.

How could you miss it? He'd be almost impossible to prise free.


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