List Mgmt. 2015 general list discussion and speculation - PLEASE START NEW THREAD ON BREAKING NEWS

[FredLeDeux]

If Vardy is fit next year and plays CHF with Hawkins at FF and Kersten on a flank then granted, it is difficult to see Hamling in that lineup.

It is worth noting that last year and early this year Scott has persistently and consistently referred to Vardy as "one of our young ruck group", "a ruckman", and "a ruckman-forward".
I haven't heard him describe the kid as "a CHF", or as "a KPF", though he may have done so.
It may well be that they do not plan to use him as a full-time conventional CHF, but at best as a ruckman-CHF.
Which may leave openings for other part-time tall forwards in the F50, eg the "swingmen" Hamling, Walker, even Brown.

 

[The rabbi]

Good question that sharper minds than mine could answer.

When I look at Hamling I see a kid that might be able to hold down CHB but not one I'd be comfortable seeing at FB. I feel he is more suited to that 3rd tall role.

But, to be honest, I haven't seen much of Hamling at all.

And what I have seen hasn't really excited me.

O.K. fair enough on what you have seen.
I often watch the VFL games in Geelong and I have seen him play some very good games. But I have also see him look ordinary at times. There was a game earlier in the year where he played CHB and in my opinion he was clearly the best on the ground. He took some very good marks and broke away from the forward line by immediately playing on. Looked good.
The bolded text expresses my thoughts about Hamling too.

 

[Teriyakicat]

Hamling appears to be a "swingman" (to use an AFL buzzword).

For all the positives that term seems to garner, it might be hampering him a bit.

You mean ... like Brown?

I guess the players might be better cementing themselves in one position before they become more versatile - or we'll have loads of "Jacks of all Trades, Master of None!"

 

[Teriyakicat]

Depending on form and injuries i also wouldn't rule out the chance of Harry Taylor spending some time up forward.

Perhaps, when Lonergan retires, Harry could move to Full Back?

 

[Stan The Caddy]

Perhaps, when Lonergan retires, Harry could move to Full Back?

Yep i think if Harry spends time forward next year it will only be because we can afford the luxury (if we land Frawley). But as soon as Lonergan retires i think he will be needed down back once again.

 

[Pivo]

You mean ... like Brown?

I guess the players might be better cementing themselves in one position before they become more versatile - or we'll have loads of "Jacks of all Trades, Master of None!"

I actually don't have a big issue with guys being played in different positions as part of their development. And the ones that become good at it are pretty valuable.

However, some guys might prefer it if they were played in the same place week in-week out.

In this world there are those that are adaptable and there are those that aren't.

But being inflexible isn't necessarily a bad thing. After all, those people might be very good at what they do, so perhaps leave them to it.

That's part of a coach's responsibility I think. Man management.

 

[Teriyakicat]

I actually don't have a big issue with guys being played in different positions as part of their development. And the ones that become good at it are pretty valuable.

However, some guys might prefer it if they were played in the same place week in-week out.

In this world there are those that are adaptable and there are those that aren't.

But being inflexible isn't necessarily a bad thing. After all, those people might be very good at what they do, so perhaps leave them to it.

That's part of a coach's responsibility I think. Man management.

I agree with the flexibility issue- and, yes, it's probably a player-to-player thing. I wonder how players like Brown would've gone if he'd had more time in the seniors in the forward line before being shuffled from pillar to post, in order to find a place for him. I guess he wasn't grabbing his opportunities in the forward line and the MC thought he was talented enough to try and fit in elsewhere. He seems to be a 5th-choice in both areas, though... rather than maybe 3rd choice in just one.

Another thing that seems to happen quite often is that forwards get shifted into defence to polish up their defensive side- or that's how it seems to me.

Hawkins would be one that springs to mind on the 'inflexible' side of the book. Things didn't work out in the ruck for him but then I do see glimpses of his tapwork in the forward line that makes me think that all that early ruck training he had is still paying dividends- although he won't ever be first choice in the ruck.

 

[The rabbi]

Hawkins would be one that springs to mind on the 'inflexible' side of the book. Things didn't work out in the ruck for him but then I do see glimpses of his tapwork in the forward line that makes me think that all that early ruck training he had is still paying dividends- although he won't ever be first choice in the ruck.

I do remember his nice tap work to Stevie J in the forward line earlier in the year. He put the ball straight down SJ's throat and when Steve goaled he immediately acknowledged Hawkin's work.

 

[Teriyakicat]

I do remember his nice tap work to Stevie J in the forward line earlier in the year. He put the ball straight down SJ's throat and when Steve goaled he immediately acknowledged Hawkin's work.

Yes- that's one that I remember. He's done it a couple of times, as well- just in play when he knows he can't get both hands to the ball (due to opponents holding onto his arms.... )- if he gets one hand free, his vision is very very good and he can pick a teammate out accurately.

 

[The rabbi]

I actually don't have a big issue with guys being played in different positions as part of their development. And the ones that become good at it are pretty valuable.

However, some guys might prefer it if they were played in the same place week in-week out.

In this world there are those that are adaptable and there are those that aren't.

But being inflexible isn't necessarily a bad thing. After all, those people might be very good at what they do, so perhaps leave them to it.

That's part of a coach's responsibility I think. Man management.

Scotty has made it clear that he thinks that some players at least need to show the ability to be flexible. And as you have said, some are adaptable and some are not. Hawkins, for example would not work in any other role than a KPF. Where as someone like Harry Taylor, Cam Mooney or Ross Glendinning (in his day) could swap between CHF to CHB with no real problems.

 

[rocker_oz33]

Missy Higgins WB cracked the sh!tes with because hes wont sign the new contact.
Word is he hates Geelong.

 

[Turbocat]

Scotty has made it clear that he thinks that some players at least need to show the ability to be flexible. And as you have said, some are adaptable and some are not. Hawkins, for example would not work in any other role than a KPF. Where as someone like Harry Taylor, Cam Mooney or Ross Glendinning (in his day) could swap between CHF to CHB with no real problems.

Rab , imo , it just gets down to how good you are. Hawk is well and truly good enough to be picked on one position. Find a great FB and he would be the same but as we know its rare and its probably even harder in D

 

[Turbocat]

Missy Higgins WB cracked the sh!tes with because hes wont sign the new contact.
Word is he hates Geelong.

what a shame

 

[vinum coupe]

what a shame

You were able to decipher the post?

 

[Turbocat]

The real Kipling quote was read by my late father at my 21st birthday (a little while ago..). I like your modern interpretation of it!

I had little idea what we were talking about so went to google.... and ok "IF" , oh there is the Wimbeldon quote ...... I sort of know it.

All I can say is "if"

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;

I declare right now I'm no man... cause id never gamble all I have won in one wager , and if I did and lost id be so down on myself.

but I guess in relation of this quote , to this thread....

If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;

I find the irony of this quote resonates with me. We get told the the clubs tries to treat winning and losing the same , week in, week out and yet ... if kids do not commit to their dream (football) 100% they will fail.

It makes me wonder if this Triumph and Disaster thing is best thought of as an ideal more relevant to the days of Amateur sport , to the old guys sitting in the tower in "Chariots of Fire" , to a time when practice was frowned upon as it was unseemly and gave into the lower urges. "your trying to hard ol son". Treat win /loss the same.... again Im no man.

And would we really want a player who does that? Isn't that the charge put to the players who waste talent. Hawk has said he wasted his early years , Smedts gives the impression of that now. NO , I think I want a Junkyard Dog attitude of Chappy where they are not treated the same and he would be a lesser player if he did.

 

[Turbocat]

You were able to decipher the post?

Apparently a singer has trouble with his/her record label "WB" and wont sign . Hate the crowds in Geelong because just like at the footy , they're too quiet.. about right?

.. just on the off chance , it may refer to Bulldog Higgins who like a few ex "Geelong" guys hate the Cats... McGuire at The Lions is another I think. If the latter , I'm not fussed at all. Have spent enough on player rehab and bandages

 

[year of the cat]

I had little idea what we were talking about so went to google.... and ok "IF" , oh there is the Wimbeldon quote ...... I sort of know it.

All I can say is "if"

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;

I declare right now I'm no man... cause id never gamble all I have won in one wager , and if I did and lost id be so down on myself.

but I guess in relation of this quote , to this thread....

If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;

I find the irony of this quote resonates with me. We get told the the clubs tries to treat winning and losing the same , week in, week out and yet ... if kids do not commit to their dream (football) 100% they will fail.

It makes me wonder if this Triumph and Disaster thing is best thought of as an ideal more relevant to the days of Amateur sport , to the old guys sitting in the tower in "Chariots of Fire" , to a time when practice was frowned upon as it was unseemly and gave into the lower urges. "your trying to hard ol son". Treat win /loss the same.... again Im no man.

And would we really want a player who does that? Isn't that the charge put to the players who waste talent. Hawk has said he wasted his early years , Smedts gives the impression of that now. NO , I think I want a Junkyard Dog attitude of Chappy where they are not treated the same and he would be a lesser player if he did.

I particularly love that verse of the poem. But I know that as a immature 21 year old I failed to really understand or grasp the message (though that may have been due to the forum at which it was delivered - speeches at the average 21st birthday should never be too profound considering the intoxicated state that the subject to whom it is directed is invariably in).

I'd say that is true for most kids of that age. I say kids because I think most (boys in particular) of 21 years are still kids in mind. The irony is that rare ones, like Joel Selwood, who are mature enough to understand, probably don't need to hear the message in the first place. They will be successful due to their own self motivation (mixed with considerable talent). And others (such as the boy from WA with all the social problems whom the Hawks drafted - can't recall his name - how quick we forget and move on..) will not get the message regardless of how often it is delivered. They are two extremes. You'd hope that it might resonate in some of the ones in between.

 

[FoolCat]

I thought I heard a whisper about Jarryn Geary from the Saints being out of contract and Geelong has shown some interest.

Don't know much about him, injured atm i believe.

 

[vinum coupe]

I thought I heard a whisper about Jarryn Geary from the Saints being out of contract and Geelong has shown some interest.

Don't know much about him, injured atm i believe.

Smaller Defender.
Yes there is a whisper around apparently.

 

[rocker_oz33]

Has tagged before.

 

[TheJimmyCartel]

Would rather continue to blood Bews and Thurlow

 

[FoolCat]

Smaller Defender.
Yes there is a whisper around apparently.

Has tagged before.

Just did a bit of research on him. Yes he can do a run with role through the middle.

Also his signature dish is 2-minute noodles.

 

[Turbocat]

Smaller Defender.
Yes there is a whisper around apparently.

They talked FA on the TAC FS show yesterday , and Hutchy (yes In know) mentioned in passing us being into him.

Is it a coincidence that Geelong have been linked to Geery and Frawley , and they are both UFA and both mid 20's. Maybe we have leaned FA is better if we can get hold of a player a bit younger. Rivers for example has been good and worth the spot but it could be argured that playing a younger player the games going to him would be better long term. If a club keeps getting 28/29 years old FA's it sort of sets us in a loop of having to chase another replacement just as they have settled.

On Geery , if he comes at the right price then why not. It just confirms Geelong has not changed its core believe..we will not be attempting to maximize picks by bottoming out...more we will continue to bleed in kids while we stay close to top 4.

 

[cats_09]

Not sure how much of it is a whisper when they announce on TV that Geary is out of contract and Geelong is keen - seems any chance we had of trying to keep any interest in him quiet is gone.

 

[Turbocat]

Would rather continue to blood Bews and Thurlow

There is a good argument for that but perhaps the MC just want as many options as possible. Get as much talent to the club and let the cream rise.
But as I have said in earlier posts , certainly plenty of VFL guys that are at the point needing AFL games to keep advancing. And just like with any addition to our list , someone alway's falls outs the bottom...just the cost of adding talent.
I guess its a question for the best judges in club.... better to add a FA or better to an extra late pick. In the end is it just a dollar question?