Football club finances / FFP

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NFGKizza said:
also this will be the only season where ourselves and any other prem club are under any type of ffp pressure. soriano believes our revenue will increase to about 400 mil for next season, i presume that includes the bumper new television deal. simple fact is, if that tv deal was already in place, we would've turned a profit for the last season, so whatever uefa decide to load that wet lettuce leaf up with will be a one time hit.
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Deloitte predicted that in the next set of accounts, the number of English clubs in the Money League top 20 would increase from 6 to 8 or 9 on the back of this new TV deal.
 
ADL9798 said:
moomba am I reading this correctly that the reason City have failed FFP this year is because UEFA won't accept these backhanded player image rights deals which you sold to an unnamed 'external company', meaning you have had to add that figure (£25m) to your wage bill for the 2012/13 financial year? If so I can't see it being a huge problem in terms of having to restructure player contracts to fall in line, in the long term the additional revenue gained from the new TV rights deal would just about cover that wouldn't it? Also was there some issue with City 'selling' their IP to NYCFC?
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Its either the image rights or the IP that has been knocked back I think. We havent provided detail on the image rights but may do so in the future. Possibly because Gill has access to all the info, and we don't want him to know our business plans.

From the figures I've seen we have had €42 of our income disregarded for FFP purposes over the two years. We sold some IP last season as well in a related party transaction.

Etihad deal doesnt seem to be a problem although PSG look like they've had a bug chunk of theres disregarded.

Chelsea €46 loss (although the figures have given them pre 2010 wage exemption which I don't believe they are entitled to to bring it to €34 profit). Liverpool €88m loss (although pre 2010 which I believe they are not entitled to takes it to €28m). Not sure where the figures come from so could all be bollocks anyway.

If they are correct, we'll struggle next season as well. Our income is going to increase but we'd have to profit by around €40-50m to fall under the limit. From then on it shouldnt be a problem.
 
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The ridiculous thing about QPR is that they may be up for a £60m fine if they get promoted.

If a third party came up to QPR and said that they will give them £60m to throw a championship playoff game there would rightly be outrage and all sorts of bother.

I don't see too much of a difference between the two. I don't know the ins and outs of the champions rules, but to me it seems as ther is now thanks to FFP a financial incentive for QPR not to get promoted.
 
WorldCup2022OZ said:
60m fine? That seems a little excessive. Is FFP fines at least not counted in future FFP figures?

What sort of penalties were they looking at for City?
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£60m is just what I've heard.

Still just speculation that we'll get any penalty, or have been found in breach. Papers started with expulsion, now they are saying that we will get a fine and a restriction on the wages of the players to be registered for next seasons champions league. Which would be ridiculous as we would be competing against clubs who would almost certainly be in breach, but whose accounts haven't been looked at by UEFA.
 
Few reports that we have rejected UEFA's settlement offer. At a guess we disagree on the adjustments they have made and aren't prepared to accept the punishment on that basis.

Not sure what the next step would be if that is the case, think we before some appeals board.

Still nothing official from UEFA as it's all speculation, they have said that 9 clubs of the 76 investigated are still being looked at.
 
It will be a fine or punishment to do with the Champions league I'd guess.

1.Reprimand / Warning
2.Fine
3.Deduction of Points
4.Withholding of Revenue from UEFA competition
5.Prohibition to register new players for UEFA competitions;
6.A restriction on the number of players that a club may register for UEFA competitions
7.Disqualification from a competition in progress
8.Exclusion from future competitions

Out of those i'd say a fine or points reduction for the group stage of the Champions League would have been offered to the offending clubs.
 
Shoei said:
It will be a fine or punishment to do with the Champions league I'd guess.

1.Reprimand / Warning
2.Fine
3.Deduction of Points
4.Withholding of Revenue from UEFA competition
5.Prohibition to register new players for UEFA competitions;
6.A restriction on the number of players that a club may register for UEFA competitions
7.Disqualification from a competition in progress
8.Exclusion from future competitions

Out of those i'd say a fine or points reduction for the group stage of the Champions League would have been offered to the offending clubs.
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Is that list in order of severity? Because I'd argue a squad reduction would be less of a penalty than a points reduction.
 
Not sure I just copied it from the press release, but I agree.

For a club like Man City I would rather 6.

5 wouldn't be too bad if the club got to pick which player(s) it was but i'd assume it would be the newest additions to the squad of 25.
 
I think it has more to do with accepting their figures than the punishment.

If they knock £40-50m off our figures and we don't think they should then I think we'll fight it regardless of the penalty.

You might say "why bother if you get a warning or a small fine"? But if we accept it now we can hardly turn around next year and say you can't exclude it this time.
 

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Sky are saying that we've been fined £50m and restricted to 21 players for the champions league.

No chance we'll be accepting that, and by reports over the weekend we aren't close to coming to a settlement with UEFA.
 
restriction of numbers on champions league players would be argued as restriction of trade, illegal under eu law. cannot stick.

fine, nothing. 16 mil a year. will be covered by increased revenue anyways. trying to make a big song and dance out of it with 1 club. too bad we'll fight it.
 
NFGKizza said:
restriction of numbers on champions league players would be argued as restriction of trade, illegal under eu law. cannot stick.

fine, nothing. 16 mil a year. will be covered by increased revenue anyways. trying to make a big song and dance out of it with 1 club. too bad we'll fight it.
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It all depends how we've breached the rules. If for example UEFA have adjusted the Etihad sponsorship I don't think we'll accept any punishment. They're own rules say that they can't touch it, and if we accept it now by paying a fine then we accept it next year, and the year after and the year after.

The IP sale and the image rights, that to me is dodgier ground but I don't know enough about either to say whether it's a justifiable transaction or not. If the club think it is, and the auditors think it is, and UEFA think it's not I think we will fight them on it.

If it's just a matter of us not doing our numbers, then we'll accept a fine. But not £50-60m.
 
There is some speculation that the punishments being speculated on are from L'Equipe talking about PSG's penalties this morning. People have presumed we will have the same. If that is the case I suspect we would fight that too as their breach (if you accept the rumoured UEFA calculations) is three times higher.
 
NFGKizza said:
i'd also like to know where the 50 mil figure is from.

like how have uefa reached 50 mil? how exactly does fining us make things fairer?
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And how does it protect clubs, which is the point of FFP right?

Some journo asked UEFA the question of what would happen to FFP fines (charity, youth development, big piss up). They answered that they haven't decided yet.
 
NFGKizza said:
restriction of numbers on champions league players would be argued as restriction of trade, illegal under eu law. cannot stick.

fine, nothing. 16 mil a year. will be covered by increased revenue anyways. trying to make a big song and dance out of it with 1 club. too bad we'll fight it.
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If you can't negotiate a settlement it goes to a non-negotiable decision which you can't appeal. Interestingly if the 21 man squad penalty goes ahead you are still required to have 8 locally developed players in that squad which would be a bit of a struggle you'd think (unless you resort to playing youngsters from the academy in the squad).

Don't see any problems with UEFA restricting how many players are in your squad. They aren't excluding you from the competition and if City don't like it they are free to pull out of the champions league.

i didn't think there was any substance to FFP at all and fully expected nothing to be done about the likes of City/PSG and I'm surprised they are actually going through with penalties.
 
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