2nds Footscray vs Casey VFL Final @ Casey Fields

[littlenails]

Would love to, but I can't watch from up here and there was no stream. Stats is all I get to see plus ad hoc BF posts during/after the match.

I think only two match day posts mentioned Smith. One asked if he was playing forward (obviously not from someone at the ground) and the other (post match) said he played a good first quarter but was beaten after that.

So please elaborate: he had 10 disposals AND stopped 9 forward entries? - or were they part of the 10 disposals? From your comments his 10 disposals must have included a fair number of CPs? Were his 3 marks all intercepts? Also why no tackles? Doesn't he pressure opponents in possession? bad tackling technique?

These are genuine questions. People keep talking him up but in the two games I've seen him in the seniors he has only shown the occasional glimmer. I'm hoping to understand what MC and others have seen in him. I know he has a good leap but at 182cm he's going to have to show something extra to become a regular in the AFL.

Roarke Smith has some good skills such as a good leap but for my liking he just doesn't do enough, he hasn't got the energy. Sometimes he gets up high enough for a spoil but misses entirely. He is not dominant enough. He played OK in the first half but faded badly in the second.

Declan Hamilton played well in the first half, being in the right place at the right time to kick 3 goals and he made some good passes. He got a few touches in the third but I didn't see him in the last quarter. Note that he has laid either no tackles or very few tackles for the last 4 matches.

I suggest that both of these players should have been delisted. Maybe these guys went OK in the last 5 minutes, I don't know as I left early to avoid the rush and traffic jams. I wasn't bad leaving a bit early because I met Tom Campbell and we had a chat and also saw John Schultz.

 

[dogwatch]

As I've said before MC must see something in Roarke to have elevated him twice in successive years.
So I'm prepared to believe in him for the time being. Just haven't seen what it is yet.

Having said that, it took JJ a year or two to really make his mark as a rookie. We always knew he had great pace but what he has added is good decision making and the ability to accumulate a reasonable number of disposals. So maybe Roarke will blossom something like that next year? Here's hoping.

As for Hamilton, I was as perplexed as others that he got an extension. However his form has improved since then and there's at least a small ray of hope he might yet make a player.

2017 is a make or break year for both of them IMO.

 

[StringyDog]

As for Hamilton, I was as perplexed as others that he got an extension. However his form has improved since then and there's at least a small ray of hope he might yet make a player.

Hamilton I don't have hope for, I know he has played ok in last month, but he is simply too small, too slow and not skilled enough to play his position at AFL level.

 

[maddog37]

Hamilton I don't have hope for, I know he has played ok in last month, but he is simply too small, too slow and not skilled enough to play his position at AFL level.

His footy brain ain't slow.

 

[Boristown]

Maybe VD can elaborate a little more on why Casey put a hard tag on Hamilton rather than Honeychurch, Webb or others. Reckon that says plenty about his ability.

 

[Testekill]

Maybe VD can elaborate a little more on why Casey put a hard tag on Hamilton rather than Honeychurch, Webb or others. Reckon that says plenty about his ability.

I believe that last year Coburg put a hard tag on him IIRC.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Maybe VD can elaborate a little more on why Casey put a hard tag on Hamilton rather than Honeychurch, Webb or others. Reckon that says plenty about his ability.

He gets to dangerous positions a lot more than those you've named. Tape etc review will show that he's often in a position to either finish a chain or contribute meaningfully to it. Up until this point though he has proven far too easy to shut down, with an inability to work through close defensive coverage inside the forward 50 or higher up the ground, and poor ability to win his own ball unfortunate features of his game. He also has little-to-no meaningful defensive involvements, even when not getting disposals.

I would suggest that a combination of these things contribute to him being a logical tagging choice, even if he isn't the best player on the ground.

I still have (a lot of) doubts but his recent form is promising. I hope he pulls it together.

 

[StringyDog]

Maybe VD can elaborate a little more on why Casey put a hard tag on Hamilton rather than Honeychurch, Webb or others. Reckon that says plenty about his ability.

To be honest I reckon that's crap, he played pretty deep in first half, in third he played up near wing on side of ground I was on and often had no opponent near him, if he was being tagged, whoever was doing it was doing a crap job.

Webb had a lot of close attention at contest didn't get a lot of ball out in space, Honeychurch they wouldn't tag as they would have loved the ball in his hands.

 

[maddog37]

He gets to dangerous positions a lot more than those you've named. Tape etc review will show that he's often in a position to either finish a chain or contribute meaningfully to it. Up until this point though he has proven far too easy to shut down, with an inability to work through close defensive coverage inside the forward 50 or higher up the ground, and poor ability to win his own ball unfortunate features of his game. He also has little-to-no meaningful defensive involvements, even when not getting disposals.

I would suggest that a combination of these things contribute to him being a logical tagging choice, even if he isn't the best player on the ground.

I still have (a lot of) doubts but his recent form is promising. I hope he pulls it together.

He is the icing on the cake type of player IMHO. A good side can carry a couple of these types if their offensive work is worth the defensive risk (up to a point obviously) especially if we are a strong zone defensive style team.

 

[Boristown]

To be honest I reckon that's crap, he played pretty deep in first half, in third he played up near wing on side of ground I was on and often had no opponent near him, if he was being tagged, whoever was doing it was doing a crap job.

Webb had a lot of close attention at contest didn't get a lot of ball out in space, Honeychurch they wouldn't tag as they would have loved the ball in his hands.

So you're saying VD is lying?

 

[doggies ftw]

Maybe VD can elaborate a little more on why Casey put a hard tag on Hamilton rather than Honeychurch, Webb or others. Reckon that says plenty about his ability.

Some Essendon supporter who has a lot to do with a VFL team came on here last year and said they put a huge amount of work into Hamiliton too, so opposition obviously rate him and the club must so there's something there. Just needs to get his body up to scratch I reckon

 

[bobby2]

Maybe VD can elaborate

No he can't, he's been banned.

#banvd

 

[bobby2]

As I've said before MC must see something in Roarke to have elevated him twice in successive years.
So I'm prepared to believe in him for the time being. Just haven't seen what it is yet.

Having said that, it took JJ a year or two to really make his mark as a rookie. We always knew he had great pace but what he has added is good decision making and the ability to accumulate a reasonable number of disposals. So maybe Roarke will blossom something like that next year? Here's hoping.

As for Hamilton, I was as perplexed as others that he got an extension. However his form has improved since then and there's at least a small ray of hope he might yet make a player.

2017 is a make or break year for both of them IMO.

Roarke is more like Wood than JJ. If you don't see much in him, watch him in marking contests. He often manages to spoil ruckmen and key forwards in 1-on-1 contests thanks to his leap.

His progress for a second year rookie-listed player who has done an ACL has actually been very good. His kicking (the main knock on him when he came to the club) has improved markedly. He's been rated our second best on the ground twice in eight VFL games this year, despite having low disposal numbers, so I reckon he's been playing quite a defensive role. I wouldn't be too concerned about him not getting much of the ball a couple of months after coming back from his ACL. I reckon he'll win more ball offensively when he builds some fitness.

 

[dogwatch]

Roarke is more like Wood than JJ. If you don't see much in him, watch him in marking contests. He often manages to spoil ruckmen and key forwards in 1-on-1 contests thanks to his leap.

His progress for a second year rookie-listed player who has done an ACL has actually been very good. His kicking (the main knock on him when he came to the club) has improved markedly. He's been rated our second best on the ground twice in eight VFL games this year, despite having low disposal numbers, so I reckon he's been playing quite a defensive role. I wouldn't be too concerned about him not getting much of the ball a couple of months after coming back from his ACL. I reckon he'll win more ball offensively when he builds some fitness.

Fair enough. Thanks.
I wasn't likening his playing style to JJ though. Just using JJ as an example of a rookie who didn't look like he'd make it in his first few months but just got better and better, an quite rapidly. From memory he even played a bit in the VFL development league after being injured so he looked a long way off it for a short while.

My point is JJ (as a shorty) has got some tricks. I hope Roarke has some too, whatever they are.

 

[VitalDread]

Maybe VD can elaborate a little more on why Casey put a hard tag on Hamilton rather than Honeychurch, Webb or others. Reckon that says plenty about his ability.

Hamilton is more dangerous than honeychurch. With honey he is a inside midfielder /small forward that hangs around the ball.
Hamilton is a everything type player, his tunning patterns and reading of the ball luts him in dsngerous spots for kicks inside and outside 50m.
He reads the ball way before the ball gets to him which makes it tough to contain since casey mids might get sucked in and hamilton has already left the contest and is now kicking it to the forwwrds.

If hamilton was like 196cm or something he would be the most dangerous player in our team (afl)

 

[VitalDread]

To be honest I reckon that's crap, he played pretty deep in first half, in third he played up near wing on side of ground I was on and often had no opponent near him, if he was being tagged, whoever was doing it was doing a crap job.

Webb had a lot of close attention at contest didn't get a lot of ball out in space, Honeychurch they wouldn't tag as they would have loved the ball in his hands.

So you're saying VD is lying?

When casey started to win 150+ touches more than footscray the tag went out the door.

 

[Testekill]

When casey started to win 150+ touches more than footscray the tag went out the door.

Would you say that things just fell into place for you guys when Austin did his knee?

 

[VitalDread]

Would you say that things just fell into place for you guys when Austin did his knee?

Not really, scray backline was always going to struggle without tall defenders.
Its the midfield that lost scray the game, casey kept placing great pressure and kept turning thr ball over which made it tough for defenders to get best position

 

[Yojimbo]

Not really, scray backline was always going to struggle without tall defenders.
Its the midfield that lost scray the game, casey kept placing great pressure and kept turning thr ball over which made it tough for defenders to get best position

Casey would beat the Bulldogs at the moment, full stop.

 

[VitalDread]

Casey would beat the Bulldogs at the moment, full stop.

They did on the weekend

 

[Yojimbo]

They did on the weekend

Roos made the call to go with the kids this year which has meant
the Casey team has had the benefit of some very experienced
senior players. That team would trouble Fremantle at the
moment something our senior team could not do, it would
have to be played at Casey Fields though not in WA.

 

[cooee bulldogs]

Just as a side note TTEEEERRRRLLLLLLIIIICCCCHHHH was given a 1 week ban, plus an extra 1 week due to a poor record, for his rough conduct charge

 

[Boristown]

Just as a side note TTEEEERRRRLLLLLLIIIICCCCHHHH was given a 1 week ban, plus an extra 1 week due to a poor record, for his rough conduct charge

So misses the GF? Haha