Footy Brawl - Ban Grog?

[juss]

We're animals, every one of us has the potential to become violent and horrible people. Social inhibition plays a huge role in stopping it. Alcohol takes a lot of that away. I think it's surprising this stuff doesn't happen more often tbh.

This is one of the dumbest copouts I have ever read.

 

[master bate]

Blaming alcohol for the actions of individuals is like blaming the gun instead of the shooter. If so many people can drink and enjoy themselves, why cant these guys?

Alcohol lowers your inhibitions and common sense, but it doesnt make you violent and aggressive and a criminal unless you already have those tendencies and characteristics in you.

That's the excuse the American's use for their gun laws. Remind me again which country has a higher murder rate?

Young men, filled with testosterone are violent and aggressive in nature. It's survival instincts from back in the cave men day.

You've just admitted alcohol lowers your inhibitions and common sense. So when you and your mates are barracking loudly next to a rival footy team and there's a fight on the field instead of wisely staying out of it after a couple of drinks you might less inhibited about some pushing and shoving and all of a sudden everyone is brawling.

As I said before you punish the individuals/individual club and you put in preventative measures for either that club or more widespread to decrease the chance of it happening again.

 

[the_interloper]

This is one of the dumbest copouts I have ever read.

He's not excusing it at all, just explaining it and he's right. A bellyfull of piss and a group of egotistical blokes is not a great mix.

 

[bradrowe#32]

Wasn't there a video floating around?

 

[Kickit2brown]

Time to ban violent people. So sick of the media prefacing every violent event with "x person was drunk / on drugs".

Fact is some people in society thinks its perfectly ok to start a fight every now and then or bash someone senseless. They are violent people and that is the root cause. Not alcohol.

Stop giving these idiots an excuse for their actions because they were drunk or high. The majority of us manage just fine without belting someone else.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

If anybody knows anyone who was around footy in the east back in the 70s, ask them about East Hawthorn FC. A reasonably strong club who had an extremely drunk and violent entourage (many reportedly carrying weapons) with them at every game.

I think it culminated when they actually won the Eastern Districts flag... on that day there was a huge brawl which included a bloke being thrown to the ground from near the top of the grandstand... and if you've ever been to Ringwood FC you'll know it's not exactly a tiny three step terrace.

Reigning premiers and they were thrown out of the league, club folded never to be seen again.

The many, many, many good people at football clubs can't tolerate this kind of s**t. If they do, they should expect a similar destiny for their club.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Mt Waverly should be banned from selling booze at their home games for next season.

That will rid some of the idiots, and hit them in the hip pocket at the same time.

An effective death penalty for many battling clubs (at the very least making it impossible for it to afford to pay several senior players without a back-up revenue stream to make up for the shortfall) and it's not like banning BYO can really be effectively policed (it's pretty much an honour system and always has been, especially during H&A games, where clubs simply don't have the manpower to try to enforce it). So you run the risk of killing a club and not even fixing the problem that you set out to.

Just wondering, was the close area between the exit/entrance to the ground and the changerooms a designated 'dry' area? Was alcohol being served anywhere near this area? I would have thought a bit of common sense would at least allow the game to be completed, before the pissed up idiots decided to be heroes.

 

[DangerSloane]

Not quite.



I wasn't there but a lot of people that were say it was the result of an on-field incident involving the Carrum coach. Seems what has been reported is half the story.

Yeh and onfield issues stay onfield.
Any fan found to be assaulting a player or coach should be banned for life.
Cant have these guys entering the playing field, or even the passage off the ground to the changerooms.

 

[pazza]

An effective death penalty for many battling clubs (at the very least making it impossible for it to afford to pay several senior players without a back-up revenue stream to make up for the shortfall) and it's not like banning BYO can really be effectively policed (it's pretty much an honour system and always has been, especially during H&A games, where clubs simply don't have the manpower to try to enforce it). So you run the risk of killing a club and not even fixing the problem that you set out to.

Just wondering, was the close area between the exit/entrance to the ground and the changerooms a designated 'dry' area? Was alcohol being served anywhere near this area? I would have thought a bit of common sense would at least allow the game to be completed, before the pissed up idiots decided to be heroes.

How do VAFA Clubs manage then with the strict no alcohol policy as has been a part of the competition since the 1980's?

I'll tell you how.

Strong sponsor and support networks.

You actually don't need to have alcohol at football matches.

 

[DangerSloane]

Happened in a grand final I was involved with a few years ago.

Div4 SAAFL - Salisbury West lost the game by 150+ points and after the first quarter just started going the biff.
They had 8 players sent off during the game and I think it was 5 suspensions.
From our team there were 5 facial fractures including 2 broken jaws, 2 broken cheekbones and a busted eye socket.
They were kept in division 4, but no other penalties ensued.

Luckily someone took over the club and got rid of the scum.

Its a totally different kettle of fish when fans are involved though. I hope they get whats coming to them.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

How do VAFA Clubs manage then with the strict no alcohol policy as has been a part of the competition since the 1980's?

I'll tell you how.

Strong sponsor and support networks.

You actually don't need to have alcohol at football matches.

Errr...they don't pay players and their turnover is a fraction of that of equivalent strength clubs in other local leagues?

 

[DangerSloane]

How do VAFA Clubs manage then with the strict no alcohol policy as has been a part of the competition since the 1980's?

I'll tell you how.

Strong sponsor and support networks.

You actually don't need to have alcohol at football matches.

Sorry but there are actually clubs that run without selling booze?

Ive played at probably 60 different amateur grounds in SA and I have never seen one that doesnt sell alcohol.

 

[pazza]

Errr...they don't pay players and their turnover is a fraction of that of equivalent strength clubs in other local leagues?

Perhaps that is part of the problem.

Why have blokes earning $40K-$50K in some cases running around in local footy for a start...these guys have jobs already for the most part (tradies as an example) and a lot of the bigger clubs have pokie revenue flowing in as well.

You have to commend the VAFA for the No Alcohol stance. How often have there been stories about violence in VAFA games? I've never seen police at VAFA games. And only at finals would you ever have security guards.

And the affiliation fees are very high compared to other leagues.

 

[pazza]

Sorry but there are actually clubs that run without selling booze?

Ive played at probably 60 different amateur grounds in SA and I have never seen one that doesnt sell alcohol.

Basically VAFA Clubs can have a President's Lunch and post match drinks but, no alcohol is to be sold from 2pm and there is no cash bar in the outer at all.

 

[DangerSloane]

Basically VAFA Clubs can have a President's Lunch and post match drinks but, no alcohol is to be sold from 2pm and there is no cash bar in the outer at all.

Geeze, our club would be absolutely screwed if not for alcohol sales.

Selling $2 beers for $5 every tues, thurs and sat are one of the only reasons we still exist.
Id say thats not an isolated case either.

 

[pazza]

Geeze, our club would be absolutely screwed if not for alcohol sales.

Selling $2 beers for $5 every tues, thurs and sat are one of the only reasons we still exist.
Id say thats not an isolated case either.

Probably right.

But, the VAFA has had the policy in since the 1980's as I said.

It has become harder to police in recent years as some people calmly head into public parks and consume their own. I note that Fitzroy is an example of this.

 

[DangerSloane]

Perhaps that is part of the problem.

Why have blokes earning $40K-$50K in some cases running around in local footy for a start...these guys have jobs already for the most part (tradies as an example) and a lot of the bigger clubs have pokie revenue flowing in as well.

You have to commend the VAFA for the No Alcohol stance. How often have there been stories about violence in VAFA games? I've never seen police at VAFA games. And only at finals would you ever have security guards.

And the affiliation fees are very high compared to other leagues.

You do realise not having alcohol cuts about 75% of their crowd, and therefore there are always going to be less issues.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Perhaps that is part of the problem.

Why have blokes earning $40K-$50K in some cases running around in local footy for a start...these guys have jobs already for the most part (tradies as an example) and a lot of the bigger clubs have pokie revenue flowing in as well.

How many players do you know that earn that? Absolute top-liners in some of the best local leagues around would be lucky to earn half that. And the reason clubs will pay that is simply to be competitive and indirectly, to provide the best product for its supporters.

You have to commend the VAFA for the No Alcohol stance. How often have there been stories about violence in VAFA games? I've never seen police at VAFA games. And only at finals would you ever have security guards.

And the affiliation fees are very high compared to other leagues.

People don't go to VAFA games, for the most part. They'd rather go to another local league where they can have a drink. How often have there been stories about violence in the other top-line suburban leagues? It seems a minor risk to me.

 

[carnthedons]

Don't ban grog. Don't give me 40kph speed limits on Glenferrie/Mt Alexander Rds. Address the fact that people are getting drunk and using that as an excuse for being campaigners. Drink, be merry, don't be a *******.

Rather than ban grog, ostracise the dickheads who ruin it for everyone else.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Geeze, our club would be absolutely screwed if not for alcohol sales.

Selling $2 beers for $5 every tues, thurs and sat are one of the only reasons we still exist.
Id say thats not an isolated case either.

Cut out player fees and it pretty much evens out. To be honest, I don't know how the 'suburban' clubs (not affiliated with a school or uni) in the VAFA compete with their local rivals, but the 'Old Boy' clubs generally get a lot of help from the school/uni and Old Boys networks.

 

[pazza]

Cut out player fees and it pretty much evens out. To be honest, I don't know how the 'suburban' clubs (not affiliated with a school or uni) in the VAFA compete with their local rivals, but the 'Old Boy' clubs generally get a lot of help from the school/uni and Old Boys networks.

Beaumaris is the highest suburban club in the VAFA..they have links with the AFL via coaching staff. it helps.

Fitzroy is well known and can get players well as a result.

 

[DangerSloane]

Cut out player fees and it pretty much evens out. To be honest, I don't know how the 'suburban' clubs (not affiliated with a school or uni) in the VAFA compete with their local rivals, but the 'Old Boy' clubs generally get a lot of help from the school/uni and Old Boys networks.

We are a lower division club and do not pay any players.

 

[RonSon]

Happened in a grand final I was involved with a few years ago.

Div4 SAAFL - Salisbury West lost the game by 150+ points and after the first quarter just started going the biff.
They had 8 players sent off during the game and I think it was 5 suspensions.
From our team there were 5 facial fractures including 2 broken jaws, 2 broken cheekbones and a busted eye socket.
They were kept in division 4, but no other penalties ensued.

Luckily someone took over the club and got rid of the scum.

Its a totally different kettle of fish when fans are involved though. I hope they get whats coming to them.

Yeah played a DIV 3 ammos game against Salisbury West about 10 years ago and there were 3 amublances called to the ground during the game to take players to hospital. A broken jaw and wrist on our side and one of their players copped a broken leg. Not to mention injuries sustained that didn't require hospitalisation. I had my teeth put through my lip [yeah stupid playing without a mouthguard] when I was kneed in the face trying to grab the ball off the ground in a pack and a bunch of similar injuries from punch ons.


But agree, when supporters become involved it's a different thing. It's much scarier with fans involved as you don't know if any of the idiots will have a weapon like a knife.

 

[mottrain]

We had a game I was at between Lyndale and Yarra in Division 2 ressies of all where the gimps from Lyndale decided to start fights for the sake of it as they totally were thrashed and had guys jumper pulling, kneeing, tackling without/off the ball just because they could. Anyway a guy in their team was what you'd call a known troublemaker that had a short fuse and got punched in the head from behind the umpire's sight and stirred up about just getting out of jail for either seriou assault or rumors had it he'd killed someone. Guy went off his rocker, punched this guy back in front of the umpire then abused him for being red carded. Apparently was seen having a can before going on the field in the reserves game. Guys in the crowd stirring s**t who were pissed as a result of this (from Lyndale mainly) and swearing at the South players were obviously already well on it. Then you had the dickhead in the seniors game who was drinking and abusing the goal umpire with his Lyndale clothing visibly warn that was also the club's responsible umpire escort. The alcohol clearly didn't help the situations and as a result something needs to be looked at in regards to policing it especially with people who shouldn't be drinking until after the day's game complete.

 

[UpForGrabs]

I think that Australia turning a blind eye to the dangers of alcohol is one of our biggest failings, but unless you take the same approach across the entire country (i.e not just a footy matches), then what's it going to achieve?