Strategy Fremantle Dockers Next Generation Academy

[Scham]

Part vent/part genuine question incoming...

Can somebody with more of a glass half full perspective explain the benefits to Freo of the NGA as it currently stands? There are benefits for young aspiring players, particularly those juniors not considered elite who are on the fringe of draft selection. But if I'm the club and put effort & resources into a kid who I don't have any elevated access to if they are one of the first 40 players picked in a draft, what do I get from it?

Not wanting to sound disparaging towards the NGA players we have selected, but it seems like utter sh*thousery that we develop players for other teams to recruit given our F/S program is years behind the majority of the competition and our academy has never had the concessions that other expansion clubs have had.

So please, what's in it for Freo?

p.s.: I am not a crackpot.

Community service??? with the odd payoff for the club here and there when a player no one else wants in the draft makes the grade.

 

[AstonSouffle]

Part vent/part genuine question incoming...

Can somebody with more of a glass half full perspective explain the benefits to Freo of the NGA as it currently stands? There are benefits for young aspiring players, particularly those juniors not considered elite who are on the fringe of draft selection. But if I'm the club and put effort & resources into a kid who I don't have any elevated access to if they are one of the first 40 players picked in a draft, what do I get from it?

Not wanting to sound disparaging towards the NGA players we have selected, but it seems like utter sh*thousery that we develop players for other teams to recruit given our F/S program is years behind the majority of the competition and our academy has never had the concessions that other expansion clubs have had.

So please, what's in it for Freo?

p.s.: I am not a crackpot.

Tbh in my eyes it's karma really, this would be the exact argument that Sydney had and we proceeded to lambast them for it, calling for sackings in the AFL, and for the people doing the sacking to be sacked.

NGA's need to be heavily tweaked so that Metro players regardless of ethnic background don't get protected full-stop, but clubs get first dibs that can't be matched on players with an indigenous/multicultural background from regional areas. This top 20/40 nonsense is the wrong implementation, they should narrow the criteria of what the NGA academy actually is.

 

[DragoDelph]

Tbh in my eyes it's karma really, this would be the exact argument that Sydney had and we proceeded to lambast them for it, calling for sackings in the AFL, and for the people doing the sacking to be sacked.

NGA's need to be heavily tweaked so that Metro players regardless of ethnic background don't get protected full-stop, but clubs get first dibs that can't be matched on players with an indigenous/multicultural background from regional areas. This top 20/40 nonsense is the wrong implementation, they should narrow the criteria of what the NGA academy actually is.

Just simplify the rules.

An academy is an academy is an academy. Same for all.

Protect round 1. Matching post round 1, with no discount.

Or; remove discount for f/s and academy, require a matched bid to contain a pick within 10 places of the bid, and remove round restrictions.
Rather than teams trading down to collect points, they’ll have to trade up if they want the player. (Wouldn’t help us next year, but given we’ll be a top team, that’s the point.)

 

[Tonga Bob]

Just simplify the rules.

An academy is an academy is an academy. Same for all.

Protect round 1. Matching post round 1, with no discount.

Or; remove discount for f/s and academy, require a matched bid to contain a pick within 10 places of the bid, and remove round restrictions.
Rather than teams trading down to collect points, they’ll have to trade up if they want the player. (Wouldn’t help us next year, but given we’ll be a top team, that’s the point.)

The cynic in me says that the AFL will remove the F/S discount when we start getting some good ones.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Tbh in my eyes it's karma really, this would be the exact argument that Sydney had and we proceeded to lambast them for it, calling for sackings in the AFL, and for the people doing the sacking to be sacked.

NGA's need to be heavily tweaked so that Metro players regardless of ethnic background don't get protected full-stop, but clubs get first dibs that can't be matched on players with an indigenous/multicultural background from regional areas. This top 20/40 nonsense is the wrong implementation, they should narrow the criteria of what the NGA academy actually is.

I think karma is harsh because the current system is basically complete bullshit. It's worth a kicking up a fuss about
1) While I'm ok with GWS and GC - two actual struggling & developing clubs having universal access to their talent, the fact that Sydney have the same level of access is completely nuts when all the other clubs cant access them till 40. They arent some small fledging club struggling to attract talent, they are an absolute power house and have been for close to 20 years. They have no problem retaining or bringing in talent
2) And yes, I agree with you the top 20/40 stuff is ridiculous anyway and is a completely lazy and bullshit way to go about it. You're completely right that the best way to go about it is strong gatekeeping about who gets in academies and it should be about giving the Josh Simpsons of the world the strongest chance to succeed - not someone who has lived in Perth since they were 1 and gone to a PCA school their whole life but one parent is remotely indigenous or from Singapore. That would require actual effort from the AFL though so we're never going down that route...

 

[DragoDelph]

The cynic in me says that the AFL will remove the F/S discount when we start getting some good ones.

Or decide that you can’t match in the first round

 

[Lach72]

Just when mini Pav and Mundy are coming through

 

[freo_leo29]

Tbh in my eyes it's karma really, this would be the exact argument that Sydney had and we proceeded to lambast them for it, calling for sackings in the AFL, and for the people doing the sacking to be sacked.

NGA's need to be heavily tweaked so that Metro players regardless of ethnic background don't get protected full-stop, but clubs get first dibs that can't be matched on players with an indigenous/multicultural background from regional areas. This top 20/40 nonsense is the wrong implementation, they should narrow the criteria of what the NGA academy actually is.

If they narrow the criteria then clubs will favour those kids that are locked to them and that's what the elders were all arguing against

 

[Bastyy]

Part vent/part genuine question incoming...

Can somebody with more of a glass half full perspective explain the benefits to Freo of the NGA as it currently stands? There are benefits for young aspiring players, particularly those juniors not considered elite who are on the fringe of draft selection. But if I'm the club and put effort & resources into a kid who I don't have any elevated access to if they are one of the first 40 players picked in a draft, what do I get from it?

Not wanting to sound disparaging towards the NGA players we have selected, but it seems like utter sh*thousery that we develop players for other teams to recruit given our F/S program is years behind the majority of the competition and our academy has never had the concessions that other expansion clubs have had.

So please, what's in it for Freo?

p.s.: I am not a crackpot.

I think the idea of "we're developing these players" is partially overblown when in the grand scheme of things what the club's providing is the tools for the players rather than doing all the work ourselves. In our earlier years of NGA the goals on the website are pretty clear for things such as basic skill development but for the 17s and 18s the club outlines the following

• Basic skill execution under high-level pressure
• Understanding of the mental and physical requirements for a player entering State League and AFL systems
• Goal setting and accountability to set and implement individual skill development plans

They're not investing heaps into making them great football talents, or giving them the groundwork to be best 22 Freo players, they're giving them the best possible blueprint for how they get to the AFL or even just a state league club that they might not otherwise have. The goal is less about players playing for Freo (What the fans of the club see) and more about introducing more players to the footy system (What the AFL sees and wants). Really whats happening is clubs getting rewarded for helping grow the AFL talent pool in a more focused way than the AFL themselves could. The hidden reward that the fans never really see is that by doing these NGA events in different parts of WA, every second kid who participates will probably end up a Freo fan if they enjoy football enough to follow it, which I'm sure the club itself wants.

The worst part about the system is that we also have the NSW/Queensland academies that don't have bid limits. Ideally all academies should have no bidding in the first round and then you can match bids from the second round onward. Then I think it's "fair"

Tldr; The NGA is less about giving Freo more quality best 22 players and more about building the AFL community at large with AFL rewarding clubs with the ability to pick players at SOME point in the draft (Although we've seen pushback from AFL clubs on the no bids before 40 rule, showing that the clubs have their own limits on what constitutes "worth it" in regards to NGA's)

If the clubs didn't see the need for the NGA, they wouldn't put much into them, and I don't think lack of draftees is what will deter clubs from investing in them

 

[Pommie Docker]

Just simplify the rules.

An academy is an academy is an academy. Same for all.

Protect round 1. Matching post round 1, with no discount.

Or; remove discount for f/s and academy, require a matched bid to contain a pick within 10 places of the bid, and remove round restrictions.
Rather than teams trading down to collect points, they’ll have to trade up if they want the player. (Wouldn’t help us next year, but given we’ll be a top team, that’s the point.)

This. This is the answer, it's obvious and would bring back equalisation part of the draft. It's too obvious and simple though, they will never do it.

 

[Docker82]

Just simplify the rules.

An academy is an academy is an academy. Same for all.

Protect round 1. Matching post round 1, with no discount.

Or; remove discount for f/s and academy, require a matched bid to contain a pick within 10 places of the bid, and remove round restrictions.
Rather than teams trading down to collect points, they’ll have to trade up if they want the player. (Wouldn’t help us next year, but given we’ll be a top team, that’s the point.)

I'd just make that one pick involved needs to be a certain % of points to match tbh.

That rule probably only needs to apply to the first, maybe second round tbh. After that I'm happy enough to have bids matched with teams next selection.

 

[Tonga Bob]

I think the idea of "we're developing these players" is partially overblown when in the grand scheme of things what the club's providing is the tools for the players rather than doing all the work ourselves. In our earlier years of NGA the goals on the website are pretty clear for things such as basic skill development but for the 17s and 18s the club outlines the following

• Basic skill execution under high-level pressure
• Understanding of the mental and physical requirements for a player entering State League and AFL systems
• Goal setting and accountability to set and implement individual skill development plans

They're not investing heaps into making them great football talents, or giving them the groundwork to be best 22 Freo players, they're giving them the best possible blueprint for how they get to the AFL or even just a state league club that they might not otherwise have. The goal is less about players playing for Freo (What the fans of the club see) and more about introducing more players to the footy system (What the AFL sees and wants). Really whats happening is clubs getting rewarded for helping grow the AFL talent pool in a more focused way than the AFL themselves could. The hidden reward that the fans never really see is that by doing these NGA events in different parts of WA, every second kid who participates will probably end up a Freo fan if they enjoy football enough to follow it, which I'm sure the club itself wants.

The worst part about the system is that we also have the NSW/Queensland academies that don't have bid limits. Ideally all academies should have no bidding in the first round and then you can match bids from the second round onward. Then I think it's "fair"

Tldr; The NGA is less about giving Freo more quality best 22 players and more about building the AFL community at large with AFL rewarding clubs with the ability to pick players at SOME point in the draft (Although we've seen pushback from AFL clubs on the no bids before 40 rule, showing that the clubs have their own limits on what constitutes "worth it" in regards to NGA's)

If the clubs didn't see the need for the NGA, they wouldn't put much into them, and I don't think lack of draftees is what will deter clubs from investing in them

My goodness mate, this is in your top 5 all time posts. Thanks for providing that explanation in such detail. The NGA events as PR exercises to get more fans is one think I didn’t think of but a definite benefit to the club.

Now do the Father/Son rule.

 

[dropbear101]

okay this debate is silly

we got some players out of this and will continue to do so.

 

[Bastyy]

My goodness mate, this is in your top 5 all time posts. Thanks for providing that explanation in such detail. The NGA events as PR exercises to get more fans is one think I didn’t think of but a definite benefit to the club.

Now do the Father/Son rule.

The father son rule is a s**t rule made by jaded Victorians who think football was better when the colour purple didn't exist

 

[CapitalA]

Part vent/part genuine question incoming...

Can somebody with more of a glass half full perspective explain the benefits to Freo of the NGA as it currently stands? There are benefits for young aspiring players, particularly those juniors not considered elite who are on the fringe of draft selection. But if I'm the club and put effort & resources into a kid who I don't have any elevated access to if they are one of the first 40 players picked in a draft, what do I get from it?

Not wanting to sound disparaging towards the NGA players we have selected, but it seems like utter sh*thousery that we develop players for other teams to recruit given our F/S program is years behind the majority of the competition and our academy has never had the concessions that other expansion clubs have had.

So please, what's in it for Freo?

p.s.: I am not a crackpot.

I suppose the benefit is we can pick other teams good nga players too. We're not the only ones losing good players through the nga.

 

[freo84]

Carlton should be made to give us back motlop.

 

[Dockeroo]

The father son rule is a s**t rule made by jaded Victorians who think football was better when the colour purple didn't exist

Oh but I love the father son rule. We gotta protect that “traditional” part of the game

Am I doing it right?

 

[freo_leo29]

Father Son rule is goated

You guys just aren't thinking far enough ahead for it, wait til Jack Pavlich is running out for us and tell me that isn't F@#king special

It'll be one of the great days as a Freo supporter

 

[Taylor]

The father son rule shouldn't exist, for all the clubs that have benefited from it, until such time as all clubs have benefited relatively equally then no clubs get it.

It's reasonable as it currently stands. But the academy should be equalising clubs like Freo, Port, GWS and GC who don't have as many as other clubs. Refer my previous stat post on this issue.

It's possible that Mitch will be available to Fremantle. He will need to play and be average though. Doing an ACL at training next week might scare some off while letting him get professional rehab and the club will get to see how he handles himself.

 

[estibador]

Edwards is pretty special, even if he missed the entire season he'd probably still go before Freo had access to him.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

Carlton should be made to give us back motlop.

Isn't he coming back?

 

[theGav56]

I suppose the benefit is we can pick other teams good nga players too. We're not the only ones losing good players through the nga.

Could have been Erasmus.

 

[Joao]

How good is Edwards as a forward? Unless he's special there I don't know where he'd fit. Lord knows we don't need another quality ruck.

 

[Ysaye]

Part vent/part genuine question incoming...

Can somebody with more of a glass half full perspective explain the benefits to Freo of the NGA as it currently stands? There are benefits for young aspiring players, particularly those juniors not considered elite who are on the fringe of draft selection. But if I'm the club and put effort & resources into a kid who I don't have any elevated access to if they are one of the first 40 players picked in a draft, what do I get from it?

Not wanting to sound disparaging towards the NGA players we have selected, but it seems like utter sh*thousery that we develop players for other teams to recruit given our F/S program is years behind the majority of the competition and our academy has never had the concessions that other expansion clubs have had.

So please, what's in it for Freo?

p.s.: I am not a crackpot.

Quite simply put, the advantage for clubs is:

• Premiership teams and/or squads have (and arguably implicitly need due to salary cap constraints) players picked after pick 40 down to the rookie list.
• The NGA ruling allows you priority access from your region that in fall into that part of the draft.

Further to this, you can simplify the types of players that appear in the draft into the following order, these being:
(1) Players with high potential and strong junior performance levels
(2) Players with high potential but weak (whether through injury or inconsistency) junior performance levels
(3) Players with low potential but high junior performance levels.

The NGA system is great clubs allowing us priority access for players in category (2). It is no surprise that our NGA picks from 2022 (Draper and Williams) are most definitely players with high potential but that just didn't have the runs on the board.

You could argue that the more effort the club puts in, the less likely they will receive a benefit because they will push some players from sitting (2) into (1) and make them more inaccessible, but on the flip side the more effort they put in the more potential candidates they will have left over to pick from.

The reality is that the Freo NGA class of 2022 was a good bunch of kids and a great outcome for Freo; in addition to Draper and Williams, Jaspar Scaife and Chase Bourne were arguably pretty unlucky to not get picked up. Part of the fact that we had so many options is due to our investment in the group.

 

[Tonga Bob]

I suppose the benefit is we can pick other teams good nga players too. We're not the only ones losing good players through the nga.

Fair call. Case in point:

Could have been Erasmus.