Discussion Hickey and Longer

[Rors]

I'm pretty sure that Chris Pelchin speaks to the club & the recruiters well before he decides to go out willy-nilly & downgrade all our draft picks & trade players on...

I'm not a Chris Pelchin fan in any way, shape or form, but to say he gets all the credit for what the recruiters do come draft day is just silly. Those blokes work as a team. They work out the players & picks to trade in & out during trade week, & then study for 6 weeks to work out who they'll take using those picks on draft day. It's pretty simple & I highly doubt that people of good integrity such as Trout & Bains would bother working for the club with Pelchin there if he was as bad a bloke as everyone makes out he is

 

[Big Mart]

Luke Delaney.... Like Zac Dawson before him, has taken his opportunity .... Was specifically targeted for trade, and he specifically picked us for opportunity.

It was a win/win

If still at North, he'd still be playing at North Ballarat.

 

[saintsrfreak]

I could use an ass coach or two

 

[Big Mart]

Oh,

And someone should have told Brodie Grundy he was supposed to be crap, As he was only 19?

Been on an AFL list for 5 years now Hickey... If Hickey and Longer are about the same.... Hickey should be well advanced....

Hickey is a better player right now... Longer has more upside IMO for a start, he can physically compete with opposition ruckmen

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

I could use an ass coach or two

Ive never seen an Ass Coach but I have seen a Coach make an Ass of himself

 

[pebblesofsand]

The Longer/Grundy comparison is interesting. We did very well I think

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...1=3812&tid2=16&pid2=3646&type=A&fid1=S&fid2=S

 

[VDS66]

When we have a trading success....

Supporters jump on the bandwagon... Eg/in Pelchen we trust?! I mean seriously ... He is the head of footy and has been since 2011


We have a disgraceful list, we are paying them nearly 9M we have 25 foot injuries? We have had 2 coaches outed in his reign ... Both hated him... We have down graded three first round picks in a rebuild... He is currently doing midfield rotations (wtf) he's like a kid with a toy afl team?! He initially bought 5 21-25yo players in to fill a void. Then decided it was a full rebuild? Setting us back 2 years?

We get rid of him... We will improve.... And some Ass Coaches

AR is a good fit

Someone forgot to tell the players last week...

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Our 2015 Coaching staff.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Our 2015 Coaching staff.

Better than some of the other photos you got for that image search, I'd wager!

 

[Nutsngum]

When we have a trading success....

Supporters jump on the bandwagon... Eg/in Pelchen we trust?! I mean seriously ... He is the head of footy and has been since 2011

You mean the exact time our list management and drafting/recruiting suddenly stopped sucking and of which we've retained like 80% of?

 

[VDS66]

Funny thing is that you can recruit whoever you like and there are no guarantees.

TDL was 23rd man in the Swans GF team, yet has not kicked on. Saad was dumb to do what he did, but otherwise was going ok.

Tez has not reached his potential and frankly that may be his own fault. Maister wasn't up to it and injuries have stopped him.

Who have I missed? oh yeah, Lee... still not fit but the club have seen enough to give him a 2 year extension.

From 2011 onwards:

Ross is still 50/50
Saunders 50/50 and pick 43 in a stuffed draft
Markworth has been injured
Dunnell was a rookie

Newnes has come good
Roberton great last year but had injuries
Webster has come good
Murdoch too early to call
Wright looks the goods if he can stay on the park

Then we have:

Bruce - so far so good
Delany, nuff said
Eli, Billings. Dunstan, Acres.

and of course Hickey and Longer who are too early to call.

So as I see it:

3 spuds
1 dumb arse
1 spud rookie elevated

5 too early to call

and...

9 hits.

And that's with only last year as our only decent crack at an uncompromised draft since around 2003.

Hardly the disaster that some / one are banging on about under Pelch.

 

[VDS66]

I could use an ass coach or two

Expect to see an increase in our come from behind wins next year...

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Better than some of the other photos you got for that image search, I'd wager!

Bloody American's, they can't spell, and Kim Kardashian is NQR. Its "arse" you buttheads. Or bum. And for what its worth fanny is round the other side.

 

[Nutsngum]

Saunders was actually a 2012 pick VDS. We got Newnes in 2011 who is now definitely best 22 and has effectively made it as a long term footballer.

 

[VDS66]

Saunders was actually a 2012 pick VDS. We got Newnes in 2011 who is now definitely best 22 and has effectively made it as a long term footballer.

That was meant to read: From 2011 onwards (since pelch started with us)...

 

[Rors]

and of course Hickey and Longer who are too early to call.

Hickey is already a better version of McEvoy & he's 2 years younger than him - so IMO that's a win

Longer gets better every game which is fantastic, but I agree that it's too early to call

 

[Baldur]

So far both Hickey and Longer are tracking ok and if one of them does not work out we have some other players in the wings that might turn out ok. Our Ruck stocks for our present stage of development look fine.

Can both Hickey and Longer play in the same team? It is way to early to tell. Not only do we not know how they will develop as players, we not know how the game and our game plan will develop.

Stanley has begun to show something as a forward, if he continues to do so I would like to get him out of the ruck. Then use whichever of Hickey or Longer shows the best skills as a forward as a 3rd tall.

What we are missing is a true key position forward to be our number one forward when Roo retires. I suspect Stanley can never be that, he is an athlete trying to be a footballer.

 

[karaoke]

A quick look at Supercoach scores up to rd 17 for this year (SC not be all & end all, but give good indication of influence on game IMO)



Based on SC 2014 averages, Hickey sits 12th & Longer 32nd.

2 observations on my part;

1) Hickey plays un-injured, I would expect him to easily ave 90-100, which would put him into top 10 rucks (acc to SC).

2) Longer doesn't take lots of marks (~1/game), get possessions (~8/game), or kick goals (1 this season) so he's not going to get the extra SC pts that would put him up into an ave of 80+ and put him into the top 20.

I actually like both rucks, particularly that they offer something different each IMO.

Hickey - more impact around the ground, marks & possessions, with ability to potentially kicks goals. (Cox-ish?)
Longer - more impact around the contest; tackles, sheperds, blocks etc - bit of aggro factor. (Mumford-ish?)

Keep both and give them plenty of opportunities, would be a good problem to have in 3-4 years time if they have both developed into good AFL ruckmen and we can't fit them both in- trade value is there.

 

[Big Mart]

Has Hickey played injured? Didn't think the club did that anymore.... All the foot re injuries probably suggest a possibility...

Having said that

He played 3 practise matches before his initial 5 at the start of the year

And then 3 at Sandy before he played again in R16

He was not rushed

Say it again
Cannot have two ruckmen in one team in partnership .... They are both lumbering ruckmen who average 18 touches a game between them.
Where would you play the resting Ruckman?

Unless
1 can play fwd... Neither can like most ruckmen
2 They are both guns, and hold their place as footballers in the side not ruckmen... Neither are guns

One plays

Stanley backs up...

 

[Hayes4PM]

http://www.saints.com.au/news/2014-07-23/hickey-out-for-the-season


Son of a ding-dong-diddly. That sucks. Tendonitis can be a real annoying injury, takes a long time to fully recover.

 

[NarklesHelmet]

Keep both and give them plenty of opportunities, would be a good problem to have in 3-4 years time if they have both developed into good AFL ruckmen and we can't fit them both in- trade value is there.

Good post. And the highlighted needs to be reinforced when speaking of both players. They are DEVELOPING, they are NOT the finished article by any means. Like you said, they both have their strengths right now. But let's not debate their role in the team as if what we have now is the finished product, that is simply unfair on the players and plain illogical.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Has Hickey played injured? Didn't think the club did that anymore.... All the foot re injuries probably suggest a possibility...

Not sure if you're including last year, but he reportedly injured his toe in the very first game of last year and then by the sounds of it carried it for most of the rest of the year. Missed a couple of weeks after that initial R1 game, then missed a couple more with it around the time of our mid-season bye, so I'd suggest he struggled with it for much of the season and rested half-way through, when he got the chance.

It seems like he then injured it (or another toe), in the 3rd quarter or so of his big breakout game v GWS earlier this year. He was killing it that game, but then struggled in the last quarter after injuring the toe. I dare say it didn't miraculously heal itself over the next few days, which would mean that it is likely that he played with it for the next few weeks, until he got another injury that put him out for that long stretch.

So I think it's a very safe bet that he has played injured to some degree for most of his time at our club.

As for him having been at AFL clubs for 5 years now, while that is true, it is also true that he didn't take up playing the game until he was about 18yo, so he is not only relatively young, but also relatively new to the game and has been injured for much of the past two years.

It is a bit of a concern to me that he does get so many injuries though. His thin body might not be up to the task, at least just yet and it is also a bit of concern how few hitouts he gets and how much he, like Mac, gets beaten in the hitouts. I'm very encouraged by a lot of his around the ground work though and it was a huge shame that he got injured in that GWS game when he did, as he was totally dominating the game at the time and if he'd been able to continue that on it would have been huge for his confidence.

 

[NarklesHelmet]

It is a bit of a concern to me that he does get so many injuries though. His thin body might not be up to the task, at least just yet and it is also a bit of concern how few hitouts he gets and how much he, like Mac, gets beaten in the hitouts.

Yeah, the above is a genuine area to be concerned about, he has pretty much been injured since he got to us, and it has been a variety of ailments culminating in the latest knee issue. The injuries can be linked to the lack of hit out wins as well: I remember reading that he came from a volleyball background meaning his leap should aid him in his ruck-work (and he certainly seemed to have Mac covered in that are from the glimpses we have seen of him). If he gets his body right, I am confident that his leap and tap-work (which has looked great at times) will improve and we will have a fantastic ruckman on our hands but the biggest worry for us now is whether or not his body allows him to fulfill his potential.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

There's a long way to go before supporters will be able to accurately say that Tom & Billy can't play in the same side. It's very easy to say that both are lumbering, Billy can't take an overhead mark & Tom is no good at centre bounces. Both are babies in terms of being AFL ruckmen. They both have huge potential & both appear to be very committed in reaching that potential.

I personally think they both are different enough to compliment each other down the track. Who knows maybe Billy will become an aerobic beast & that will help him get into position more often to take a strong mark. Maybe as he passes the 50 game mark he will have physically matured & be a monster in marking contests & become an effective target up forward.

Maybe Tom will continue to improve at the rate he has over the past few years (as a very late starter to footy) & grown into a Cox like ruckman. People forget how much the elite ruckman of the competition struggled in their first few years. Most offered little other than some ok tap work.

Maybe all these things will happen. Maybe they won't.

Categorically saying the guys can't work together & be a strong combination is pure guesswork.

 

[The Punter]

Longer 2014 stats (per game): 11 games, 7.8 disposals, 1.1 marks, 26.7 hitouts, 4.0 tackles, 0.1 goals
Hickey 2013 stats (per game): 12 games, 6.8 disposals, 3.5 marks, 12.1 hitouts, 1.5 tackles, 0.2 goals

Taking into account Hickey playing a bit more forward last year (Hickey played a number of matches with Ben McEvoy, Longer has not once played in the same side as Hickey), the stats are broadly comparable.