Hong Kong protests

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peternorth said:
watching coverage of this is extremely depressing and saddening. as a frequent traveler to the isle, i have on occasions felt a tear roll down my face.

will be back there in some 2 weeks, spending much time in central and wan chai, and i hope the protests can continue without any more issues.

i agree about culture clashes between mainlanders and HKers. i never had a problem with mainlanders in china, its the way they live and behave. however, when viewing them in HK i can see how it irks locals.
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Yeah you notice it when you're there. This is pretty racist but the mainland Chinese have the worst hygiene of any country I've been to. I mean, Cambodians are some of the poorest people in the world and have much better manners.

Though that could be cause of brutal colonialism. Now I'm sad. :(
 
szhengd said:
HK Police have received a lot of criticism for the way the rather inept way they handled yesterdays protest, especially with the tear gassing of unarmed and essentially peaceful protestors. Really a lot of ill feeling towards them in HK towards them this morning. They have also annouced they are going to pull back from the protests, leaving them unpoliced.

I don't see China allowing this to contine for much longer, for fear that it may spread across the border into Shenzhen or Guangzhou, so lets see how the next 2 days play out in the lead up to national day


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Don't think there is likelihood of this happening. There terribly is a vast difference between Shenzhen and Hong Kong and it is incredibly visible when travelling to both places.

LennyStarkiller said:
As bad as it is I can't see China backing down. The Chinese government wouldn't want to be seen as weak to places they lay claim to or areas within China where there might be unrest and to Taiwan.
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They'll try to take Taiwan out of the picture as any issues there will work against them and also make matters massively worse on an international front. There's the same for Hong Kong as this two party system that thyey have got now is seen as a benefit to Hong Kong and what makes it unique. On top this will make matters worse financially for them. China can control Hong Kong but basically there's terrible risks in doing so. Their other former European Colony also views matters the same as HK.

peternorth said:
watching coverage of this is extremely depressing and saddening. as a frequent traveler to the isle, i have on occasions felt a tear roll down my face.

will be back there in some 2 weeks, spending much time in central and wan chai, and i hope the protests can continue without any more issues.

i agree about culture clashes between mainlanders and HKers. i never had a problem with mainlanders in china, its the way they live and behave. however, when viewing them in HK i can see how it irks locals.
Click to expand...

The thing is that this is exactly where the difference started. Have been at airport and seen them totally go off at mainlanders for things that are minor mainly Mandarin speaking and also hygenic issues like kids shitting publically and also spitters. This thing is not good and makes me massively disheartened. The people pretty much in both sides are good and are fair but it is the entrenched differences in lifestyle which will work against the two. Also Hong Kong knowingly has been used to a fair degree of independence and this will not go down well ever. Even examples like Shenzhen which is a really rich place in China's terms absolutely amazingly differs from Hong Kong and as a result being in Hong Kong and actually travelling between the two you can see substantially how they tend to want to keep their country/territories the way they are.
The Coup said:
Yes and no, there's a pretty significant counter cultural movement in HK. Its a global thing at this point, the younger generations are broadly sick of entrenched authority.
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These types of rallies are really rare in Hong Kong period. They have had maybe a handful at best in the past several decades and actually all are over serious issues. The few times that I have travelled there recently the locals and more relevantly the expats say stuff like how surprising it is seeing mass rallies as they are unheard of.
 
As far as the scale I completely agree. But student protesting has a fair history in modern (last 17 years) HK
 

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The Coup said:
Yeah you notice it when you're there. This is pretty racist but the mainland Chinese have the worst hygiene of any country I've been to. I mean, Cambodians are some of the poorest people in the world and have much better manners.

Though that could be cause of brutal colonialism. Now I'm sad. :(
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what you said isnt racist. the attitude of MLCs is just that....ill mannered, rude, me first attitude. but its the way they've evolved given its a dog eat dog world. i am in importing and sourcing and see first hand how the same people work their arses off to get $$$ to survive.

i love china, people dont s**t me, but i can understand it would annoy others.
 
Its more when you're in a restaurant and someone coughs up a loogie into their dinnerware.
 
Yeah I've got local friends there. Fairly family driven place, people will look after eachother as much as practicable. They've been through some s**t there before.
 
mottrain said:
Don't think there is likelihood of this happening. There terribly is a vast difference between Shenzhen and Hong Kong and it is incredibly visible when travelling to both places.
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Doesn't matter whether the liklihood of it spreading is high or not, how China perceives it will dictate what happens next if the protests continue.
This has been one of the central governments biggest fears for years, and they have always clamped down very quickly when they perceive a protest as a direct challenge to the party's authority, which in this case it essentially is.

Despite the heavy censorship of these protests in China,there is a lot of awareness there of what is currently going on in HKG, with quite a number mainlanders being present at the protests last night. However the last thing the central government wants is an Occupy Shenzhen or Occupy Shanghai occuring, so the chances of a stronger crackdown occuring are quite real.

This was shown on Sunday when the HK police used tear gas, which is very uncharacteristic of the way they have previously handled peaceful protests. This backfired badly through ensuring that anyone who was fence sitting imediately got behind the orotest, and this is what revved it up into high gear

The rumour that that went round HK last night was that the central govt has given the HK govt 48 hours to sort it out or they will sort it out for them. If the protests don't fizzle out before then, then we could be in for some interesting times[/QUOTE]
 
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My North said:
Not a good time to have a hoilday in Hong Kong
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Hmmm ....... Ive just move here to open our new HK office after 10 years living in Shanghai.

Pretty surreal place to be at the moment. A bit of a tense feeling around the place (Im right in Central)

Some minor disruption to day to day activities, traffic, banks e.t.c, but largely seems to be peaceful protesting, albeit a very possible calm before the storm.

For a decade,like many expats I have been living comfortably under the regime of the sleeping (although occasionally snoring loudly), ever present dragon , quite blissfully ignorant (and arrogant) of the hardships of 99.9% of the population.

Somewhere though, in between the 'ganbei's' ,ktv's ridiculous and regular hangovers, most expats I think have always had a fraction of quiet,unspoken unease with the ultimate power they possess and what they will ultimately, and unfortunately,inevitably do with it.

I often wonder what would happen to my business, my family, my friends,e.t.c if their ridiculous commitment to 'face' and appearances caused them to over-react and 'flick the switch'.

While still thinking this issue will more than likely blow over, that predilection to saving face in the context of this current situation gives me a slight sense of foreboding.

China will never, ever back down. Too much at stake with 'dissidents' both in the mainland and spuring the confidence of a fiercely democratic Taiwan.

I just hope that some sort of common sense prevails for the sake of the people in China and HK.

From a personal perspective ,China's a country that I have spent most of my adult life in,built my business,met my wife ,and grown to respect if not quite love, and HK is now the place that I plan to call home and frankly have always considered to be one of the best cities in the world.

Fingers crossed.

Anyway, thats my two cents.
 
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China is (from memory) the only nation that spends more money on their internal security force than their defence force.

You'd be right to assume they'll never back down. They certainly wouldn't let a former European outpost tell them what to do, their entire foreign policy is based around never being exploited by europe again, better luck getting an honest discourse with Taiwan.
 

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mottrain said:
Don't think there is likelihood of this happening. There terribly is a vast difference between Shenzhen and Hong Kong and it is incredibly visible when travelling to both places.



They'll try to take Taiwan out of the picture as any issues there will work against them and also make matters massively worse on an international front. There's the same for Hong Kong as this two party system that thyey have got now is seen as a benefit to Hong Kong and what makes it unique. On top this will make matters worse financially for them. China can control Hong Kong but basically there's terrible risks in doing so. Their other former European Colony also views matters the same as HK.



The thing is that this is exactly where the difference started. Have been at airport and seen them totally go off at mainlanders for things that are minor mainly Mandarin speaking and also hygenic issues like kids shitting publically and also spitters. This thing is not good and makes me massively disheartened. The people pretty much in both sides are good and are fair but it is the entrenched differences in lifestyle which will work against the two. Also Hong Kong knowingly has been used to a fair degree of independence and this will not go down well ever. Even examples like Shenzhen which is a really rich place in China's terms absolutely amazingly differs from Hong Kong and as a result being in Hong Kong and actually travelling between the two you can see substantially how they tend to want to keep their country/territories the way they are.

These types of rallies are really rare in Hong Kong period. They have had maybe a handful at best in the past several decades and actually all are over serious issues. The few times that I have travelled there recently the locals and more relevantly the expats say stuff like how surprising it is seeing mass rallies as they are unheard of.
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the moment you step off the train at the border crossing you notice the difference...it's like the world stopped once you enter Shenzhen, you lose all contact with the outside world, you encounter Chinese propaganda, and a mall that is littered with fake rubbish. That doesn't even take into account the antiquated Duty Free shops!

funnily enough, the rallies are not as rare as you suggest. I was up in HK in July and it took me 1.5hrs to get from TST Air-Train station to the Hyatt Hotel because of these protests, mind you, it was smaller, but it was still happening..I think they're kept quiet but they're certainly taking place. I recall seeing a SCMP article about 17th year celebrations and how the attendees were mainlanders but none from HK, that speaks volumes.

Hygiene, well, the mainlanders will do what the mainlanders do...let their kids s**t & piss in the street, dress them, then spit everywhere. I think most of those that do it are probably used to Hutong life where they have to walk 200m to the toilet so it's easier just to do it in public.
 
People generally have no idea how many protests take place in china on a daily basis.

Trade unionism is kind of a big deal over there. The PRC might not have dealt with this in HK before, which is what makes it quite scary. Could be a real defining moment for China.
 
Melbourne Lion said:
Hmmm ....... Ive just move here to open our new HK office after 10 years living in Shanghai.

Pretty surreal place to be at the moment. A bit of a tense feeling around the place (Im right in Central)

Some minor disruption to day to day activities, traffic, banks e.t.c, but largely seems to be peaceful protesting, albeit a very possible calm before the storm.

For a decade,like many expats I have been living comfortably under the regime of the sleeping (although occasionally snoring loudly), ever present dragon , quite blissfully ignorant (and arrogant) of the hardships of 99.9% of the population.

Somewhere though, in between the 'ganbei's' ,ktv's ridiculous and regular hangovers, most expats I think have always had a fraction of quiet,unspoken unease with the ultimate power they possess and what they will ultimately, and unfortunately,inevitably do with it.

I often wonder what would happen to my business, my family, my friends,e.t.c if their ridiculous commitment to 'face' and appearances caused them to over-react and 'flick the switch'.

While still thinking this issue will more than likely blow over, that predilection to saving face in the context of this current situation gives me a slight sense of foreboding.

China will never, ever back down. Too much at stake with 'dissidents' both in the mainland and spuring the confidence of a fiercely democratic Taiwan.

I just hope that some sort of common sense prevails for the sake of the people in China and HK.

From a personal perspective ,China's a country that I have spent most of my adult life in,built my business,met my wife ,and grown to respect if not quite love, and HK is now the place that I plan to call home and frankly have always considered to be one of the best cities in the world.

Fingers crossed.

Anyway, thats my two cents.
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At least you don't reportedly have missles aimed at where you are living!
 
peternorth said:
what you said isnt racist. the attitude of MLCs is just that....ill mannered, rude, me first attitude. but its the way they've evolved given its a dog eat dog world. i am in importing and sourcing and see first hand how the same people work their arses off to get $$$ to survive.

i love china, people dont s**t me, but i can understand it would annoy others.
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Since Taiwan opened up for mainland Chinese tourists to come here there has been a problem of overcrowding of tourist spots which unfortunatly has taken away some of its beauty. Roads are full of bus tours and a personal dislike of mine is when they are walking around I don't know what it is but their groups spread out on the footpath leaving no room to walk past them so you have to walk through them, they don't seem to have much courtesy to stick to one side of the footpath in that regard. I'm not trying to be stereotypical, I know there are alot of nice people from mainland China but thats just what I have experienced while living here.
 
You'd think that the amount of people coming and going from the mainland every year, especially young people (students etc, some for long periods of time) there would be significant knowledge that political parties in general are not infalliable and as such greater agitation for political reform on the mainland.

It's always perplexed me in a way.
 
tandino said:
You'd think that the amount of people coming and going from the mainland every year, especially young people (students etc, some for long periods of time) there would be significant knowledge that political parties in general are not infalliable and as such greater agitation for political reform on the mainland.

It's always perplexed me in a way.
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there is huge agitation on the mainland. it is suppressed.
 
peternorth said:
what you said isnt racist. the attitude of MLCs is just that....ill mannered, rude, me first attitude. but its the way they've evolved given its a dog eat dog world. i am in importing and sourcing and see first hand how the same people work their arses off to get $$$ to survive.

i love china, people dont s**t me, but i can understand it would annoy others.
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no better place to witness it firsthand than at a Chinese Airport.
 
The Coup said:
there is huge agitation on the mainland. it is suppressed.
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Depends on the region.

Shanghai only gives a * about the $$$$$$

China's going to have serious issues once the massive economic development stops. At the moment people as a who tolerate things because they see other people getting richer and they think the same will happen to them (except many of the people who are moving into the cities chasing opportunities actually now have worse living standards than in the country).

Plus the sex demographical imbalance made worse by the number of wealthier Korean and Japanese farmers or people living in rural Korea or Japan who import wives from China (and Vietnam).
 
Shanghai is nothing though man. big city, but nothing compared to the Chinese farming community.

China is having issues, it isn't a matter of if.

Forget this foreign policy crap narrative of country vs country, the real battle coming is rich vs everyone else.
 
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