Is it time for a National Reserves League?

[greatwhiteshark]

Theres a damn good chance that without AFL reserves sides in Sa and WA that they wouldnt have got a tv deal for a start.

They didn't get a tv deal, they had to purchase a tv deal. But yes I get your point.
AFL clubs don't care about reserves footy so why the need for a comp, let them all just have hit outs arranged by them selves weekly. No ladder, no finals. The AFL clubs don't care so why the need for a structured comp. it is a training venue so treat it as that.

 

[MortlockWatcher]

They didn't get a tv deal, they had to purchase a tv deal. But yes I get your point.
AFL clubs don't care about reserves footy so why the need for a comp, let them all just have hit outs arranged by them selves weekly. No ladder, no finals. The AFL clubs don't care so why the need for a structured comp. it is a training venue so treat it as that.

Exactly GWS, the ABC were treated like s**t by the WAFL. The Qualifying Final was an embarrassment to the WAFL, the Fremantle Dockers and to Peel Thunder. The sooner the AFL Reserves sides are out of the WAFL, the better.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

1) the fixture must follow the afl alignment

2) depending upon circumstances, games get played as the curtain raiser or at a "home" ground. This is only really an issue in Melbourne where use restrictions limit game time on the g and Etihad. But if you want a pre game, there is always punt road or whitten, which have been successfully hosting vfl games this year

3) costs ain't that bad

Let's assume 50 extra bums, 25 players and 25 support staff. That's probably over the top by a long way, but I'm feeling generous.

Assume $2000 per person in total travel costs per game. Again, that's over the top, but it's an absolute worst case scenario

So that brings us to $100k.

Multiple that by nine (again, feeling generous) and that by 22 you come in at around $20m

Now those assumptions were all ridiculously high, but even at that level $20m pa isn't inane given the importance of a support league for the afl sides

This would then allow the wafl, sanfl, and vfa to return to being true community footy state based leagues

 

[telsor]

1) the fixture must follow the afl alignment

2) depending upon circumstances, games get played as the curtain raiser or at a "home" ground. This is only really an issue in Melbourne where use restrictions limit game time on the g and Etihad. But if you want a pre game, there is always punt road or whitten, which have been successfully hosting vfl games this year

Rather than curtain raisers, I'd go the other way and play them after (later that day or next day) in the same city as the main teams play. Sure, it's not as good for the audience, but it would mean that the 2s would travel with the main team and all emergencies would be available for both games. (having guys close to selection lose match fitness 'just in case' isn't a good thing.)

'Worst case' would be Sunday twilight games (like they didn't suck already), where the 2s would probably need to play at about the same time on a nearby ground.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Doesn't matter when or where they play, they are just scratch matches where players are being trained, parents and friends are the only ones interested.
No need for ladders or finals. Just treat it as the clubs do as training.

 

[The_Wookie]

Doesn't matter when or where they play, they are just scratch matches where players are being trained, parents and friends are the only ones interested.
No need for ladders or finals. Just treat it as the clubs do as training.

Sure. Now try and sell that to someone for broadcast rights - money is a factor here.

 

[telsor]

Doesn't matter when or where they play, they are just scratch matches where players are being trained, parents and friends are the only ones interested.
No need for ladders or finals. Just treat it as the clubs do as training.

Exactly, so hold the games after the 'big' match where it would have the greatest benefit. In addition to emergencies being available, if someone gets injured in the 1sts, you could restructure the likely replacements game/role in the 2s in preparation for next week.

 

[MortlockWatcher]

Sure. Now try and sell that to someone for broadcast rights - money is a factor here.

Why do the Reserves have to be televised? Most second tier games aren't now anyway. Just stick them on the AFL or club websites.

 

[The_Wookie]

Why do the Reserves have to be televised? Most second tier games aren't now anyway. Just stick them on the AFL or club websites.

Sure. Now sell the idea to the league. Which doesnt care about tv at all or tv money. And would just throw money at the reserves without trying to get any back.

 

[madmug]

It would be interesting to see what sort of interest the AFL might get if they wanted to form a reserves comp & televise it. When would they show the games? They might have to drop one of their cooking, or weight loss or renovation shows (well thats the end of that!)

The AFL would save money by scrapping the NEAFL so the 4 northern clubs would play in the reserves. SANFL & WAFL would resume their 'normal' operations without AFL reserves. The VFL/VFA might not survive the change, certainly not in their current structure.

I'm sure the AFL would be looking at it.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

It would be interesting to see what sort of interest the AFL might get if they wanted to form a reserves comp & televise it. When would they show the games? They might have to drop one of their cooking, or weight loss or renovation shows (well thats the end of that!)

The AFL would save money by scrapping the NEAFL so the 4 northern clubs would play in the reserves. SANFL & WAFL would resume their 'normal' operations without AFL reserves. The VFL/VFA might not survive the change, certainly not in their current structure.

I'm sure the AFL would be looking at it.

By doing this it would push WAFL and SANFL back to third tier status. Think they have paid a high enough price already in my view. But there is no stopping the AFL machine rolling over every possible football comp in the country.
If only I had the money, I would put enormous funding into the WAFL just to be a pain to the AFL! lol

 

[The_Wookie]

It would be interesting to see what sort of interest the AFL might get if they wanted to form a reserves comp & televise it. When would they show the games? They might have to drop one of their cooking, or weight loss or renovation shows (well thats the end of that!)

The AFL would save money by scrapping the NEAFL so the 4 northern clubs would play in the reserves. SANFL & WAFL would resume their 'normal' operations without AFL reserves. The VFL/VFA might not survive the change, certainly not in their current structure.

I'm sure the AFL would be looking at it.

It might even push Port Melbourne and Williamstown to the SANFL - i dont see any other non AFL aligned club being able to afford it.

 

[madmug]

It might even push Port Melbourne and Williamstown to the SANFL - i dont see any other non AFL aligned club being able to afford it.

I wouldn't think the SANFL would be in that.

Maybe some of the better funded metropolitan teams could join with Port, Willy & maybe Werribee & some others in a new VFA competition?

I dont think it would be in the AFLs best interest to damage the SANFL, WAFL or VFL/A competitions. They are are a great source for the late developer, the mature recruit & for developing coaches & umpires.

 

[telsor]

I wouldn't think the SANFL would be in that.

Maybe some of the better funded metropolitan teams could join with Port, Willy & maybe Werribee & some others in a new VFA competition?

I dont think it would be in the AFLs best interest to damage the SANFL, WAFL or VFL/A competitions. They are are a great source for the late developer, the mature recruit & for developing coaches & umpires.

SANFL &WAFL still resist the total authority of the AFL, so damaging them so that they can control the replacement isn't completely outside the realms of possibility (so long as the AFL could make it look like it's hands were clean...Well, mostly clean anyway).

 

[madmug]

SANFL &WAFL still resist the total authority of the AFL, so damaging them so that they can control the replacement isn't completely outside the realms of possibility (so long as the AFL could make it look like it's hands were clean...Well, mostly clean anyway).

The SANFL & WAFL have every right to operate with some independence. I would hope the AFL aren't as small minded as you suggest they might be.

The AFL take the role as the masters & protectors of the game. I would hope they actually show some care of the game as a whole. It is Australian rules football, not AFL, after all.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

SANFL &WAFL still resist the total authority of the AFL, so damaging them so that they can control the replacement isn't completely outside the realms of possibility (so long as the AFL could make it look like it's hands were clean...Well, mostly clean anyway).

For some of us that still love the WAFL that could not be further from the truth Telsor. The AFL from where we sit totally run football in WA. It is why the WAFC get told to pay channel 7 a million dollars a year to broadcast the WAFL yet channels 9 and 10 both are interested but can't even get a meeting with the WAFC. It is why we have the alignment sides, it is the total lack of promotion of the competition which can only be seen as a directive from the AFL. The people working at the WAFC can't even fart without asking if it's alright from AFL house. They are total puppets and hand picked ones at that. Murray McHenry who is king of the WAFC now is a board member at West Coast and one of the original founders of the WCE. He could not give a rats about the WAFL. Him and his hand selected puppets only care about the Eagles and the Dockers.
The thing is though the WAFC has for so long now ignored the WAFL that it is to late now to do anything, the WAFL is dying a slow death and has little future, the great WAFL clubs presidents try to oppose and get more interest but they are knocked back at every turn.
It is a sad state of affairs, the AFL is the big ticket but there is room for a very strong semi pro league here. But clearly the directive is not to have that.

 

[The_Wookie]

For some of us that still love the WAFL that could not be further from the truth Telsor. The AFL from where we sit totally run football in WA. It is why the WAFC get told to pay channel 7 a million dollars a year to broadcast the WAFL yet channels 9 and 10 both are interested but can't even get a meeting with the WAFC.

It is why we have the alignment sides, it is the total lack of promotion of the competition which can only be seen as a directive from the AFL.
The people working at the WAFC can't even fart without asking if it's alright from AFL house. They are total puppets and hand picked ones at that. Murray McHenry who is king of the WAFC now is a board member at West Coast and one of the original founders of the WCE. He could not give a rats about the WAFL. Him and his hand selected puppets only care about the Eagles and the Dockers.

Any evidence at all to back this up? Any at all.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Any evidence at all to back this up? Any at all.

What evidence you want?
Why would any right minded organisation not ask for bids from 3 commercial tv networks? Channel nine came out many times during the West Perth Nine news logo and stated the WAFC would not even meet with them re tv rights. There is no way a board of control of any league would prefer to pay a million dollars to have their product broadcast when they could of got it for free and possibly a small bonus per year.

Why did the WAFC not back up West Perth in the nine news logo issue? They chose to back up the seven network who they have to pay to get their games broadcast by. One would think the WAFC would back their biggest club but uses what they didn't.

The alignment voted 7-2 against and put in to place the following year. More good business there. The clubs not innocent in this as they were paid extra funding to accept it by the AFL clubs.

Promotion of the WAFL is a joke, it is non existent. Two 10 year olds could do a better job, even the Grand Final is purposely made into a sub standard event, no advertising, no pre game at all, no GF sprint, no acknowledgement of past champions. Would you not think that is the one day to honour our football history? Why in the last 4-5 years has it been completely cut off? The WAFC won't tell us, they won't even respond to numerous letters and communication. The president of my WAFL club just shakes his head and gives a wry smile and then says it's complicated and political.

I know you think the AFL are Saints and the almighty truth is always spoken by them but you simply can't be that naive and I certainly don't think you are.

The world of football is political these days and you know it is, deals are done from the AFL down that not many can understand.
Why the AFL don't want super strong big competitions at second tier level is beyond me, the idea should be to reduce the gap between 1st and second tier football not make it bigger.
I don't need you to agree with me, I know what is going on here in football in WA. Many do and are very frustrated with it. The question of why won't be answered, they will not even respond.
Maybe ask your friends at AFL, I am sure they will give you the truth!!

 

[The_Wookie]

What evidence you want?

Actuall evidence. Not conspiracy theories with no support.

Why would any right minded organisation not ask for bids from 3 commercial tv networks? Channel nine came out many times during the West Perth Nine news logo and stated the WAFC would not even meet with them re tv rights. There is no way a board of control of any league would prefer to pay a million dollars to have their product broadcast when they could of got it for free and possibly a small bonus per year.

That doesnt mean the AFL had anything to do with it. The SANFL did the same deal with the same company and broadcaster - a year earlier than the VFL and WAFL both did. The Sydney rugby union comp also paid for their coverage under the same terms. I guess they are ALL controlled by the AFL.

Why did the WAFC not back up West Perth in the nine news logo issue? They chose to back up the seven network who they have to pay to get their games broadcast by. One would think the WAFC would back their biggest club but uses what they didn't.

They backed up the broadcaster, any other league would have done the same.

The alignment voted 7-2 against and put in to place the following year. More good business there. The clubs not innocent in this as they were paid extra funding to accept it by the AFL clubs.

Through the arrangement arppoved by the WAFC. And the AFL Commission had nothing to do with it.

Promotion of the WAFL is a joke, it is non existent. Two 10 year olds could do a better job, even the Grand Final is purposely made into a sub standard event, no advertising, no pre game at all, no GF sprint, no acknowledgement of past champions. Would you not think that is the one day to honour our football history? Why in the last 4-5 years has it been completely cut off? The WAFC won't tell us, they won't even respond to numerous letters and communication. The president of my WAFL club just shakes his head and gives a wry smile and then says it's complicated and political.

Maybe the friggin league is incompetent when it comes to promotion. Promotion of the WAFL is not an AFL concern.

I know you think the AFL are Saints and the almighty truth is always spoken by them but you simply can't be that naive and I certainly don't think you are.

For a start I dont believe that at all. And you cant be that paranoid that you believe everything you wrote here.

I don't need you to agree with me, I know what is going on here in football in WA. Many do and are very frustrated with it. The question of why won't be answered, they will not even respond.

You dont seem to "know" anything here. The entire post is a list of assumptions and guesswork.

Maybe ask your friends at AFL, I am sure they will give you the truth!!

Sure. Maybe you can get together with your friends and bitch about how the incompetence of WAFL management equals AFL control over the states football some more too.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Actuall evidence. Not conspiracy theories with no support.



That doesnt mean the AFL had anything to do with it. The SANFL did the same deal with the same company and broadcaster - a year earlier than the VFL and WAFL both did. The Sydney rugby union comp also paid for their coverage under the same terms. I guess they are ALL controlled by the AFL.



They backed up the broadcaster, any other league would have done the same.



Through the arrangement arppoved by the WAFC. And the AFL Commission had nothing to do with it.



Maybe the friggin league is incompetent when it comes to promotion. Promotion of the WAFL is not an AFL concern.



For a start I dont believe that at all. And you cant be that paranoid that you believe everything you wrote here.



You dont seem to "know" anything here. The entire post is a list of assumptions and guesswork.



Sure. Maybe you can get together with your friends and bitch about how the incompetence of WAFL management equals AFL control over the states football some more too.

The thing is Wookie you have nothing that proves my points are not correct.
You want them or think they are not correct but that does not mean they are not correct.
You say they are guesses and assumptions well guess what that is how I read it with what is going on. You got any evidence to tell me I am categorically wrong? Or you just think I am wrong cause it doesn't sound right to you.
It is my opinion based on what I see and what I know from many people in the system.
Like I said you don't need to agree. You can think and also have your opinion.

 

[The_Wookie]

The thing is Wookie you have nothing that proves my points are not correct.
You want them or think they are not correct but that does not mean they are not correct.
You say they are guesses and assumptions well guess what that is how I read it with what is going on. You got any evidence to tell me I am categorically wrong? Or you just think I am wrong cause it doesn't sound right to you.
It is my opinion based on what I see and what I know from many people in the system.
Like I said you don't need to agree. You can think and also have your opinion.

All i originally asked was if you had any proof for anything you had said. You dont, and when you asked what evidence i wanted gave me a lengthy post which contained anything but.

I apparently arent entitled to my own opinion because Im an AFL shill. Remember that.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

All i originally asked was if you had any proof for anything you had said. You dont, and when you asked what evidence i wanted gave me a lengthy post which contained anything but.

I apparently arent entitled to my own opinion because Im an AFL shill. Remember that.

Well proof is written documentation, I have not broken into the WAFC or the AFL lately so going to struggle to get legal docs for you.
I didn't say you are not entitled to your opinion, you just dismissed mine. Your opinion needs to have nothing to stand behind it but you want mine to.
I think football is very political and in some parts very dodgy. I have no issue that you don't think that. That's your view.

 

[The_Wookie]

Well proof is written documentation, I have not broken into the WAFC or the AFL lately so going to struggle to get legal docs for you.
I didn't say you are not entitled to your opinion, you just dismissed mine. Your opinion needs to have nothing to stand behind it but you want mine to.
I think football is very political and in some parts very dodgy. I have no issue that you don't think that. That's your view.

I didnt dismiss your opinion, I asked if you had anything else to back it up. You could have just written that it was your opinion. I can accept that.

Ive never said I dont think football is political. I do believe that you shouldnt attribute to malice on the part of the AFL for what may simply be stupidity on the part of the WAFC. (yes, I bastardised Hanlons Razor)

 

[telsor]

The SANFL & WAFL have every right to operate with some independence. I would hope the AFL aren't as small minded as you suggest they might be.

The AFL take the role as the masters & protectors of the game. I would hope they actually show some care of the game as a whole. It is Australian rules football, not AFL, after all.

The AFL don't seem to see a difference. If they don't run it, then it's competition.

They would argue that they do it because they do care for the game as a whole, and what's 'best for the game' is for them to run it all.

The big problem is that they don't separate the 'good of the game'/'development'/'custodian' role from the need to run a fair sporting competition, so they corrupt the latter to satisfy the former and end up damaging both.

 

[madmug]

For some of us that still love the WAFL that could not be further from the truth Telsor. The AFL from where we sit totally run football in WA. It is why the WAFC get told to pay channel 7 a million dollars a year to broadcast the WAFL yet channels 9 and 10 both are interested but can't even get a meeting with the WAFC. It is why we have the alignment sides, it is the total lack of promotion of the competition which can only be seen as a directive from the AFL. The people working at the WAFC can't even fart without asking if it's alright from AFL house. They are total puppets and hand picked ones at that. Murray McHenry who is king of the WAFC now is a board member at West Coast and one of the original founders of the WCE. He could not give a rats about the WAFL. Him and his hand selected puppets only care about the Eagles and the Dockers.
The thing is though the WAFC has for so long now ignored the WAFL that it is to late now to do anything, the WAFL is dying a slow death and has little future, the great WAFL clubs presidents try to oppose and get more interest but they are knocked back at every turn.
It is a sad state of affairs, the AFL is the big ticket but there is room for a very strong semi pro league here. But clearly the directive is not to have that.

Well IMO the WAFL & SANFL & a 2nd tear vic comp are integral with the health of the AFL. Other levels less so, but they are integral to the health of Australian rules football. I know the AFLTas are only interested in themselves, but I'd hope the proper AFL are a little more considerate ofthe community game that underpins the professional game. I mean the game only exists in one medium sized nation, & mainly in only 1/2 of that. Its not in a hugely strong position so needs to care for the whole game.