Lets Maister-debate (dont worry you wont go blind)

[Rors]

Don't you think Spencer White will make it?

Tough question given i've never personally seen him play. I go by what my mates who have played for Box Hill & my dad say that have seen him play quite often.

Based in his current form, he doesnt even warrant a game in the Sandy seniors from what they have seen this year.

That said, he is a long-term prospect who is recovering from a series of nasty wrist problems & just needs to string together a bunch of games injury-free to get some consistency

 

[VDS66]

How do you know we don't have a viable option? We haven't tried anything yet.
You seem genuinely surprised the 'knives' are out, which worries me. You either haven't been watching him play or don't understand football. This isn't a 1 game thing, besides 'crashing packs' can you tell me what he brings to the table?

Name him.

white has done nothing.

Lee isn't match fit. When he is, he will get the nod.

And I am not surprised that the knives are out at all... it's par for the course on here.

FWIW, I have seen him play and understand footy. Once again, go and read my post. I have not defended his form at all.

As far as crashing packs goes...

I have ridiculed this concept from when people starting using it to defend Kosi. I think it was Mysainters who used to argue that it was important because it brought the smalls into play etc. I referred to it as crash packs to advantage stats.

Once again...

Maister has been average. When someone else who is better puts their hand up, he will probably be dropped unless he finds form. Not rocket science.

But going on people's logic, then we should also have similar threads for Jones and Geary... or anyone else who spills marks or misses the target by foot.

 

[The Punter]

Jones has missed very few targets this year. Geary is struggling.

 

[bird_man]

Name him.

white has done nothing.

Lee isn't match fit. When he is, he will get the nod.

And I am not surprised that the knives are out at all... it's par for the course on here.

FWIW, I have seen him play and understand footy. Once again, go and read my post. I have not defended his form at all.

As far as crashing packs goes...

I have ridiculed this concept from when people starting using it to defend Kosi. I think it was Mysainters who used to argue that it was important because it brought the smalls into play etc. I referred to it as crash packs to advantage stats.

Once again...

Maister has been average. When someone else who is better puts their hand up, he will probably be dropped unless he finds form. Not rocket science.

But going on people's logic, then we should also have similar threads for Jones and Geary... or anyone else who spills marks or misses the target by foot.

How many matches does Lee have to plat before he is match fit? He played in a scratch match for Sandy and was one of our best in the opening couple of Sandy games kicking 7 goals and also playing in the ruck.

 

[VDS66]

How many matches does Lee have to plat before he is match fit? He played in a scratch match for Sandy and was one of our best in the opening couple of Sandy games kicking 7 goals and also playing in the ruck.

I guess will will find out on Thursday.

 

[bird_man]

I guess will will find out on Thursday.

I'll be very surprised if he is not named.

 

[Plugger35]

Maister frustrates me too much. All I want from him is to have basic U/10's marking skills, take a defender and kick one or two goals a game. Just bring Tom Lee in. Maister just isn't good enough, he's had enough time, and we can always bring him back in if Tom Lee isn't up to it.

Rhys Stanley frustrates me as well. Out of our whole team these two are strides ahead in terms of frustration, because they can't clunk simple marks.

Stanley can be frustrating due to his inconsistency, one minute he'll take a great mark then the next minute drop a sitter but he's improving. He also has youth on his side and has a another string to his bow with his ruckwork which is usually quite good. He still has plenty of upside and will hopefully be around when we make our next premiership tilt so he deserves more patience.

Maister is just frustrating full stop as he just isn't good enough and at his age won't be getting any better or be around when we next challenge for a flag so we should be looking at other forward options like Lee, White, Siposs, Markworth who are younger with more upside.

 

[AngryRanga]

Stanley can be frustrating due to his inconsistency, one minute he'll take a great mark then the next minute drop a sitter but he's improving. He also has youth on his side and has a another string to his bow with his ruckwork which is usually quite good. He still has plenty of upside and will hopefully be around when we make our next premiership tilt so he deserves more patience.

That's exactly why I find Stanley so frustrating. He'll take a massive mark and look a million bucks, then 5 minutes later he'll drop an easy mark for no reason .

 

[VDS66]

LOL...

What are we debating here?

Maister's limitations as an AFL player are pretty well know both internally and externally. I highly doubt that he is being groomed as Roo's replacement.

If we understand where he is at as a player, then why the frustration? You can't say he is average then get frustrated because he is average. Doesn't make sense.

If we are debating the wisdom in selecting him, then we should look at our other options, which have been discussed.

Reality is that we have not had a decent 2 KPF set up since Roo / Gherig days. and we still don't.

what annoys me is why we need individual threads like these?

Maister and few others won't be around for our next tilt, so maybe we need a hard decision thread where we can speculate who we keep and who we get rid of?

It would seem that the OP thought of a funny pun to use to start a meaning less thread. When I wrote on page 1 that this thread is a wank, I was playing on words as well as being ironic.

At the moment, Beau is playing role and leading and making space for Roo who is our #1 forward. People can argue the semantics about such a strategy, but like I keep saying, we don't have another gun ready to come in and replace Roo. So for the time being, it's all about Roo and everything else is a sideshow.

Would be interested to see if Roo is taking more uncontested marks inside 50 this year. Because maybe the presence of Beau and Rhys drawing opponents is making it easier for him? Just thinking out loud and could be way off track.

 

[Jack Stevens]

Maister's limitations as an AFL player are pretty well know both internally and externally. I highly doubt that he is being groomed as Roo's replacement.

If we understand where he is at as a player, then why the frustration? You can't say he is average then get frustrated because he is average. Doesn't make sense.

Maister is terribly out of form, even by his standards. You're right, we know his limitations and what we can expect from him, but he isn't even close to reaching even that at the moment.

His confidence is shot. After he missed that set shot on Sunday, he looked to handball off every time he got his hands on the ball. The only way forward for him is for him to play for Sandy, get some confidence back, and start pushing for selection again. At the moment he's offering nothing for the team. "He gives good presence" just isn't good enough when we have players screaming for selection in the VFL.

what annoys me is why we need individual threads like these?

Talk about Maister and his form was scattered all over the board, on various threads. I think it's sensible having one thread to discuss him, rather than having broken, spread out conversations.

 

[sverik25]

Judging on how Maister was moved down back in the second half against Adelaide I would think that Lee will get his chance this weekend (hopefully).

 

[Q TRAIN]

wow the knives are out, aren't they?

Truth is atht as average as he might be, we have no one better to replace him apart from Lee. But then again, everyone here reckons that Lee as best as a 3rd tall and not a FF.

Then again...

No one really knows what role is asked of Beau from the coach. What do people expect from a player that cost us nothing? He's holding a place warm until we get our next KPF.

White? Seriously? The guy can't even get a touch in the Sandy Dev team FFS.

Just for the record I don't think my original post was sticking the knives is Maister.
Was just asking the questions "does he deserve another go" or "should he make way for somebody" . I mentioned his good points ( brave/splitting packs) and his bad points ( lack of goals, dropped marks) .
He was a 'Smokey' from the WAFL so I never expected great things from him.
If other people want to add a bit more mayo to my critique of Maister then that's up to them.
As far as im concerned he has played 40 AFL games and I have played none so he's got me beat. But id be happy to see Lee given a run of 4 or 5 games to see if he can do better.

 

[NarklesHelmet]

Surely it is a fair converation to be having? As St Mark said in a reasonable way, Maister, even by normal Maister standards and (lowish) expectations is really struggling to do the basics of the game eg marking and kicking (regardless of stats saying he is doing well in contested marks, that doesn't take into account the momentum killing dropped marks). I don't think anyone faults Beau's endeavor or workrate and he gives everything. He is an admirable bloke in that sense but football-wise it is pretty evident that if you can't mark and kick then you are not up to scratch as a key position forward unfortunately. And with Maister's regression this year, saying he can't mark and kick is not far off the mark unfortunately.

Anyway, what we can talk about in this thread in a constructive way is that, if it is a given that a Lee for Maister swap may not be ideal right now, is there another way the forward line can be set up without a "pack crasher"? It seems with Maister and Kozi before him we are stuck in a holding pattern of needing to carry a certain type of player that simply isn't up to it for structure. Why not bring in Lee and Markworth instead of having one pack crasher? I think we have to look beyond a model that we seem stuck with regarding needing another crash-packer.

 

[Noidenous]

I've said it before and I'll say it over and over again...

Stop kicking it to Riewoldt on the boundary/50m intersection and watch the results. There's no way in hell anyone's going to take regular grabs from skyballs to the pocket after the entire opposition has dropped back and blocked the only big bloke's run... even if the ruckman floats forward.

It's really not that difficult to comprehend structurally.

Crashing packs is only worth a damn if the crasher can not only get a run on the crashees, but get a run at the drop of the ball.

 

[Falchoon]

Pretty standard shot of the two; Rhys is busy dropping a straightforward mark and Beau is earnestly missing the pill...

where did that post of the year thread go ?

 

[Barrels]

where did that post of the year thread go ?

I'm blushing...

 

[Barrels]

Left-field couple of thoughts... So take them with a healthy grain of salt...

We're going to get done on the weekend, so maybe it's time for a little experimentation; we know Armo and Wright are going to miss, so in for them directly come Ross, and Bruce to play on Carlisle and Daniher.

By now you're all saying, what about Shenton; where's his reward for good form? Well, he comes in for Geary, who's struggling presently.

Dunstan also seems a bit tapped out, but for me he just heads to the pine, initially as the sub. Longer goes for Hickey if he think he's right to go.

Gwilt plays forward to give us another option and is told to throw his considerable weight around, and Curren and Saunders go to whomever of their mids plays as the half back sweeper.

And now for the really fun ones; Maister and Savage stay in, and Riewoldt goes out for Lee. Give Roo the night off to rest his knee (maybe encourage him to work on a F/S?!) and tell Beau to just go to town on their defenders and Savage that this is his audition for NZ. Finally a gassed-out Templeton gets a rest for Billings. Simples.

In: Ross Bruce Shenton Lee Billings

Out: Armitage Wright (inj.) Riewoldt Templeton (rest) Geary (omit.)

FB: Webster - Delaney - Dempster
HB: Shenton - Bruce - Newnes
RK: Hickey - Hayes - Jones
CR: Montagna - Ross - Savage
HF: Curren - Maister - Gwilt
FF: Saunders - Lee - Stanley
Int: Steven Ray Billings Dunstan

Em: Longer Riewoldt Milera

 

[1873 United]

For mine, I don't like the way we jump on some of the youngsters for having one bad game. Fact, consistency takes nearly 6 years to find in the AFL, if you need proof, read a prospectus and look up Dane Swan and Gary Ablett, both of who had career break outs in their sixth season.

Last week against Adelaide Tom Hickey was probably what hurt us the most, in rounds 1 and 2, he was almost our best player, he obviously struggled in Perth, but what young ruck wouldn't?

Geary has always been a player that puts his heart and soul into every contest, however, is he really in our most talented 22?

I'm starting to think that Maister might need and optometrist as I have a feeling that the man can't see the ball, no disrespect, but it's as if he simply charges towards the direction of the ball and loses it late, short sighted?

We have a young list with a little bit of experience, our fortunes for the future rest on this and next year, from 2016 I'd expect that the saints might be heading upwards. Look at this potential list going forward, on the proviso we finish 16th this season.

2017 Saints

B:Gilbert Delaney Wright
HB:Newnes Bruce ???
C: Saunders Dunstan Acres
HF:Billings ??? Murdoch
F: Steven Lee Longer
R: Hickey Curran ???
Montagna Armitage ???

Whilst there are a stack of holes to fill, we have scope with drafting, free agency and players on the list:
Templeton
Siposs
Savage to name but three, our objective over the next 2 years is to bolster our midfield runners, draft a new power forward and increase tall defensive stocks.

 

[Mowman]

For mine, I don't like the way we jump on some of the youngsters for having one bad game. Fact, consistency takes nearly 6 years to find in the AFL, if you need proof, read a prospectus and look up Dane Swan and Gary Ablett, both of who had career break outs in their sixth season.

Last week against Adelaide Tom Hickey was probably what hurt us the most, in rounds 1 and 2, he was almost our best player, he obviously struggled in Perth, but what young ruck wouldn't?

Geary has always been a player that puts his heart and soul into every contest, however, is he really in our most talented 22?

I'm starting to think that Maister might need and optometrist as I have a feeling that the man can't see the ball, no disrespect, but it's as if he simply charges towards the direction of the ball and loses it late, short sighted?

We have a young list with a little bit of experience, our fortunes for the future rest on this and next year, from 2016 I'd expect that the saints might be heading upwards. Look at this potential list going forward, on the proviso we finish 16th this season.

2017 Saints

B:Gilbert Delaney Wright
HB:Newnes Bruce ???
C: Saunders Dunstan Acres
HF:Billings ??? Murdoch
F: Steven Lee Longer
R: Hickey Curran ???
Montagna Armitage ???

Whilst there are a stack of holes to fill, we have scope with drafting, free agency and players on the list:
Templeton
Siposs
Savage to name but three, our objective over the next 2 years is to bolster our midfield runners, draft a new power forward and increase tall defensive stocks.

Would like to see a Slone or Dangerfield in the side for 2017

 

[SaintsSeptember]

For mine, I don't like the way we jump on some of the youngsters for having one bad game. Fact, consistency takes nearly 6 years to find in the AFL, if you need proof, read a prospectus and look up Dane Swan and Gary Ablett, both of who had career break outs in their sixth season.

Last week against Adelaide Tom Hickey was probably what hurt us the most, in rounds 1 and 2, he was almost our best player, he obviously struggled in Perth, but what young ruck wouldn't?

Geary has always been a player that puts his heart and soul into every contest, however, is he really in our most talented 22?

I'm starting to think that Maister might need and optometrist as I have a feeling that the man can't see the ball, no disrespect, but it's as if he simply charges towards the direction of the ball and loses it late, short sighted?

We have a young list with a little bit of experience, our fortunes for the future rest on this and next year, from 2016 I'd expect that the saints might be heading upwards. Look at this potential list going forward, on the proviso we finish 16th this season.

2017 Saints

B:Gilbert Delaney Wright
HB:Newnes Bruce ???
C: Saunders Dunstan Acres
HF:Billings ??? Murdoch
F: Steven Lee Longer
R: Hickey Curran ???
Montagna Armitage ???

Whilst there are a stack of holes to fill, we have scope with drafting, free agency and players on the list:
Templeton
Siposs
Savage to name but three, our objective over the next 2 years is to bolster our midfield runners, draft a new power forward and increase tall defensive stocks.

Put Joey in a forward pocket for 5 years.

 

[mysainters]

Always easy to spot the problem... but you also need a viable solution. And we don't have one just yet.

Also, selective quoting from you does not help. How about you read the rest of my post??? Never said anything that relates to your reply.

The knives comment are merely an observation on how the herd is quick to dump on a player. Sorry mate but too many cliches on here.

Don't like people putting limits on players and what they may or may not achieve. Like I said, read my post properly before making half-arsed replies.

Dumping on a player is different to talking about why you believe they should or shouldn't be in the team, and stating your reasons.

Dumping is poor, and when I heard of someone doing it on twitter directly to a payer, I was disappointed.

Stanley could give much more, but calling a footballer average, a dud or a hack is not great IMO. I have wished him well for next week, want him to believe in himself more, and would happily be proved wrong if it clicks for him.

 

[karaoke]

2017 Saints

B:Gilbert Delaney Wright
HB:Newnes Bruce ???
C: Saunders Dunstan Acres
HF:Billings ??? Murdoch
F: Steven Lee Longer
R: Hickey Curran ???
Montagna Armitage ???

Whilst there are a stack of holes to fill, we have scope with drafting, free agency and players on the list:
Templeton
Siposs
Savage to name but three, our objective over the next 2 years is to bolster our midfield runners, draft a new power forward and increase tall defensive stocks.

No Webster?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I just don't like it when supporters get shitty at players because the aren't good enough.
Saints picked up Maister cheap after he came off a red hot WAFL season.
Maister didn't run around telling everyone he was the reincarnation of Tony Lockett.
Maister didn't blackmail the selectors into playing him in the AFL.
Maister simply did as best as he could. You can see the effort.
Crack it at the coaches, recruiters and selectors if anyone.
Our team wont get better if we sack Maister, only if we draft someone better than Maister.

And even if we have someone , Maister is still important like Troy Schwartz was important in 2006.

 

[gringo2011]

For mine, I don't like the way we jump on some of the youngsters for having one bad game. Fact, consistency takes nearly 6 years to find in the AFL, if you need proof, read a prospectus and look up Dane Swan and Gary Ablett, both of who had career break outs in their sixth season.

Last week against Adelaide Tom Hickey was probably what hurt us the most, in rounds 1 and 2, he was almost our best player, he obviously struggled in Perth, but what young ruck wouldn't?

Geary has always been a player that puts his heart and soul into every contest, however, is he really in our most talented 22?

I'm starting to think that Maister might need and optometrist as I have a feeling that the man can't see the ball, no disrespect, but it's as if he simply charges towards the direction of the ball and loses it late, short sighted?

We have a young list with a little bit of experience, our fortunes for the future rest on this and next year, from 2016 I'd expect that the saints might be heading upwards. Look at this potential list going forward, on the proviso we finish 16th this season.

2017 Saints

B:Gilbert Delaney Wright
HB:Newnes Bruce ???
C: Saunders Dunstan Acres
HF:Billings ??? Murdoch
F: Steven Lee Longer
R: Hickey Curran ???
Montagna Armitage ???

Whilst there are a stack of holes to fill, we have scope with drafting, free agency and players on the list:
Templeton
Siposs
Savage to name but three, our objective over the next 2 years is to bolster our midfield runners, draft a new power forward and increase tall defensive stocks.

JWeb might want a spot on that question mark. Roberton should be back too at some point. Newnes probably isn't a back long term. Murdoch, Markworth etc might get in too.

 

[VDS66]

Dumping on a player is different to talking about why you believe they should or shouldn't be in the team, and stating your reasons.

Dumping is poor, and when I heard of someone doing it on twitter directly to a payer, I was disappointed.

Stanley could give much more, but calling a footballer average, a dud or a hack is not great IMO. I have wished him well for next week, want him to believe in himself more, and would happily be proved wrong if it clicks for him.

And this the exact reason I get p1ssed off. Has no one ever heard of allowing players to develop? Of course he could give more, so could 95% of our team at the moment. How the F do you know he could give more? Are you his personal trainer? You came up with just about every excuse known to mankind to justify Kosi's spot including his crash packing advantage bulltish. But now we have player who is finally getting some fitness and form going and you criticise him for not giving enough? Really?

In terms of AFL experience - not age - but games played... Maister has played 40 odd and been interrupted on a frequent basis. So too has Stanley.

Like I said, there are probably 15 other players that we can start a thread on.

And as I keep saying.. who is ready to replace him? If it is Lee then we will soon find out.

Reality is that some players are getting a game because there is no one better to replace them at the moment. That includes Maister, Armo, Geary and Jones.