List Mgmt. Managing retirements.

[IdiotBox]

The Curious Case of Benjamin Burgoyne

Ahem, see post #6 http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...played-6-or-more-games.1076431/#post-35026429


this blatant piracy of ideas simply must cease.

 

[cryptor]

Burgoyne seems further away now from being finished than he did when he first arrived at the Hawks. And of all the players named in the OP currently seems to be the most likely to play on the longest.

The end can come brutally quick though. The rise in soft tissue injuries amongst these names this year is a foreboding sign. Equally though, the rise of the younger players is a great sign as it allows the club to manage these older blokes without sacrificing games.

 

[seysearles]

Ahem, see post #6 http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...played-6-or-more-games.1076431/#post-35026429


this blatant piracy of ideas simply must cease.

Didn't see that. Scouts honour! I guess great minds think alike.

 

[seysearles]

The next 2 years or so will be very interesting. I'm pretty confident that our depth which is the result of holding on to so many players over the years at Box Hill by nurturing them with lengthy development is the result of the club's planning for the future. I really do feel that the club has done a fantastic job of this including appointing Carroll as development coordinator last year. We really are at the cutting edge.

The fact that we have over half a dozen players into their 30's playing some fantastic footy should also be highly motivating for the team to go back to back knowing that they have created this opportunity for themselves and are in such a strong position to do so. The confidence should be there.

We have some good younger guys but we still need to get 3-4 real quality kids into the club. Mitchell, Hodge, Burgoyne, Roughead, Cyril, Lewis, Birchall and Gunston are all quality players. You have to have a critical mass of these sort of players in order to contend. We will lose 3 of those guys within 3 years will need to replace them with other quality players (not dependables like Shiels and Whitecross). Hopefully guys like Hill, Anderson, Smith and Hartung take that next step up to be regular game changers. It is going to be a challenge to turn over the list and get guys like hodge etc onto the squad. I think, short of getting lucky in the draft, it may involve trading out some good (but not "quality" players) in return for some pure talent. A bit like we did to get Hodge in 2001. I mean that one action set in motion this entire period of success. I have full faith in the list managers and am sure they on top of it. It will be exciting to see who they go after.

 

[threesixpio]

I would not be surprised to see one or two of Sewell, Hale and Lake retire at the end of this season.

No disrespect to the other two but losing Lake would suck

 

[ACTion Hawks]

I think with all the players it all comes down to hunger. None of them are super quick, so they rely on smarts and quickness of mind. The one thing this season has shown is that it would be good to manage them, which then means the younger brigade get the games they seek and still learn off the best. The players most likely to go first, in my mind, are:

1) Sewell - the game has got quicker and I think the rules have not helped him either. He also suffers as can only really play one spot. For me, he is now in the 18-22 spots, with the primary spots taken by Shiels and the improvement in Lewis.
2) Lake/Hale - both these guys have had ordinary patches through the year, but are looking strong now. I am happy for them to play as long as they feel fit, but my guess is the pre-seasons are getting harder. Hopefully will stick around for as long as we keep winning premierships. We already have an able replacement for Hale in McEvoy, and hopefully Heatherly or Brand will come up as the gorilla minding full-back (I still prefer Shoey further upfield if he can get back to his best).
3) Hodge - I feel he will struggle physically, as he uses his body as a battering ram. Of course, the value he brings as onfield coach means he has continued value to the team, even when his playing output comes back to merely human levels. Noone can really replace Hodgey, but the team ethic and knowledge is so strong now I have confidence it will still perform at a high level when the great one finally hangs up his boots.
4) Burgoyne/Mitchell - these blokes look like they could play forever and I hope they do!!! These are the two that I think we will find hardest to replace.

 

[Todman]

Burgoyne seems further away now from being finished than he did when he first arrived at the Hawks. And of all the players named in the OP currently seems to be the most likely to play on the longest.

Silk has done well after arriving here with a bung knee. He was on crutches when we got him. Had a delayed start and then had his jaw broken at Geelong in the VFL. Missed only 4 games since debuting 4 years ago, 2 because of suspension.

 

[Brishawk]

I think with all the players it all comes down to hunger. None of them are super quick, so they rely on smarts and quickness of mind. The one thing this season has shown is that it would be good to manage them, which then means the younger brigade get the games they seek and still learn off the best. The players most likely to go first, in my mind, are:

1) Sewell - the game has got quicker and I think the rules have not helped him either. He also suffers as can only really play one spot. For me, he is now in the 18-22 spots, with the primary spots taken by Shiels and the improvement in Lewis.
2) Lake/Hale - both these guys have had ordinary patches through the year, but are looking strong now. I am happy for them to play as long as they feel fit, but my guess is the pre-seasons are getting harder. Hopefully will stick around for as long as we keep winning premierships. We already have an able replacement for Hale in McEvoy, and hopefully Heatherly or Brand will come up as the gorilla minding full-back (I still prefer Shoey further upfield if he can get back to his best).
3) Hodge - I feel he will struggle physically, as he uses his body as a battering ram. Of course, the value he brings as onfield coach means he has continued value to the team, even when his playing output comes back to merely human levels. Noone can really replace Hodgey, but the team ethic and knowledge is so strong now I have confidence it will still perform at a high level when the great one finally hangs up his boots.
4) Burgoyne/Mitchell - these blokes look like they could play forever and I hope they do!!! These are the two that I think we will find hardest to replace.

The big difference between Sewell and the rest of the players in that list is that their best football this season is top of league stuff. This is the third straight final where Sewell has had little impact in terms of contested possessions and clearances. Still manages to post good numbers tackling but just seems to struggle to get to the ball first and/or get it out when he does. I think it was telling that in the third quarter we looked a lot better in close when he moved to a HFF. Certainly he did some good things against Geelong but I feel this is his last campaign as a 'best 22' player and will only play on next year if we feel we need the depth (which seems unlikely).

I agree, think the end will come very quickly for Hodge but he has at least another season in him. We are going to miss him when he is gone. Brings the team together on the field and has an amazing talent to be where he needs to be when he needs to be there.

 

[MrFujiMoto]

Heaps of people have eluded to it but no one has said it directly so much - Clarkson's mantra of versatility not only helps the team adjust to varying game conditions when we need to step up, it will also add life to the back end of some of our best players.
Burgoyne - One of the greatest clearance players I have seen 10 years ago can now genuinely play as a back pocket, HFF, midfielder or Forward pocket. 3 of those positions allow him to play on longer than if he was still a bash and crash centerman.
Mitchell - Same as Burgoyne - known as "the Extractor" - widely regarded as the best centerman to play the game since Diesel Williams. Now spends vast amounts of time patrolling HB.
Hodge - A bull in his first 4 or so year has since been played pretty much anywhere that he is required. Spent the best part of a couple of seasons across half back and then moved back into the middle this year and has had a cracker.
Sewell - Probably the most limited of all of these guys because he is seen as a contested footy beast in the middle. However in his 200th game, and a big final no less, we see him used as a negating forward and he did a bloody good job at it. Seemed to be a fair bit of Campbell Brown about hte decision and the way he went about it. Could he play that role for another couple of years.

The bigger guys in Lake and Hale will be more cut and dry and Gibson will be an interesting one as he has mainly been big man no.2 for us so far.

I think time on these older guys will almost come down to who we have coming through in the spots these guys could shift into, as much as how much their bodies will hold up. Much the same way that the Cats managed the loss of Ling, Scarlet, Milburn, Corey etc etc. For example we may really want Anderson to play a role as a defensive forward for a year and therefore it may limit a position for Sewell in that role. We may really want to give Gus time in the backline in a year so that may take a potential spot off Gibbo if he were no longer our preferred no.2 big back-man.

As bad as it seems, it is probably the best outcome we could have when it comes to the top end talent we will lose. The biggest factor will be losing the 5 or 6 on-field assistant coaches we currently have that play such a big role in us knowing how to wrestle games back from the brink.

 

[MrPremiership]

Listening to Sewell on 360 the other night, it seems to me that he still has a lot of fire left in the belly and keen for another season.

 

[Brishawk]

Listening to Sewell on 360 the other night, it seems to me that he still has a lot of fire left in the belly and keen for another season.

I think if it were up to his mind he would play on forever. His body will get its way a long time before his mind concedes. I expect him to stay in footy.

 

[Pessimistic]

Let the state of geelong now be a warning for you guys.

Chappy or pods would have been far from the oldest players on the ground

 

[Procrastinator35]

Every season we tend to see a good 10 changes to our list & this season will be no different:.....Here's how I reckon we will go in the off season:

Trade:

Suckling: Has currency & no doubt GWS would be interested needing experienced defenders. A straight swap 4 Jaksch?
Schoenmakers: Once again GWS desperately needs tall experienced defenders, especially with Jaksch & Frost leaving. A 2nd round pick?
Hallahan: Rumours are that G/C are extremely keen. A 2nd round pick will get it done.
Grimley: His last month as the best tall forward at VFL level has given him some trade currency. Direct swap with Adelaide for Lyons?
Kelly: St,Kilda apparently keen, a 3rd rounder would get it done.

Retired:

Sewell.....Lets face it, he's at the end of his tether.

Delisted:

Garlett....Self Explanatory
Brand....Not good enough
Ross....List Clogger
Wanganeen....Has had his chances

That leaves us with 6 picks in the Draft & 2 rookie picks for young kids like Webster & Willsmore!....Including the pick-ups of Jaksch & Lyons!

19 Reece McKenzie....Huge lump of a lad at 197cm & over 100kgs, future ready-made replacement 4 Roughead
25 Josh Glenn....Best ready-made small defender in this draft & exactly what our side desperately needs....Beautiful kick.
30 Connor Blakely...Solid inside tall mid with great hands & decision making....Seldom beaten one on one on the inside & is dual sided.
40 Daniel Butler....This kid is the Luke Parker of this Draft....Make no bones about it.
41 Oscar McDonald....Brother of Tom at Melbourne....Bigger & stronger & hasn't played a bad game all year at TAC level.
58 Harry Dear....Son of, No Brainer!

Rookies:

18
36

 

[Pessimistic]

Trade depth for silk or gtfo

Why bother trading loyal servants for not much improvement ?

 

[Procrastinator35]

Trade depth for silk or gtfo

Why bother trading loyal servants for not much improvement ?

I think you'll find the 6 lads names provided will offer far more for the HFC than the 5 blokes I've mentioned as trade-worthy!....But yes its all speculation, as the Draft as we all know, is a future's market!.....However, such moves are what future premierships are made of!

Seriously doubt that any of Suckling, Schoey, Grimmers, Boxer or Kelly will become finals regulars.....And yes, here comes the cliché's 4 you: Nothing ventured, nothing gained....Fortune favours the brave.

 

[Pessimistic]

I think you'll find the 6 lads names provided will offer far more for the HFC than the 5 blokes I've mentioned as trade-worthy!....But yes its all speculation, as the Draft as we all know, is a future's market!.....However, such moves are what future premierships are made of!

Seriously doubt that any of Suckling, Schoey, Grimmers, Boxer or Kelly will become finals regulars.....And yes, here comes the cliché's 4 you: Nothing ventured, nothing gained....Fortune favours the brave.

If thats the case, good luck with trading ! If we win every trade...they just wont happen

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

I'd keep them all for another year if they felt they could play. They are all best 22.

Although if we won the flag, it might be the right time for Lake and Sewelly to call it quits or look elsewhere.

 

[Procrastinator35]

If thats the case, good luck with trading ! If we win every trade...they just wont happen

It's easy to critique another poster when they have stuck their neck out to propose a possible scenario based on research & precedent.....Hows about you give us your likely guide to our list management at the end of this season, seen as you appear to be such an expert in the field?????

 

[Pessimistic]

I think I said before that hawks and GWS could trade a bunch of players and both win. But if we really want quality, not depth - which we have plenty of - we may end up giving more bodies than we get back

 

[Pessimistic]

Tell me honestly, the way it panned out, geelong couldnt have used at least one of chappy or pods

-unless they realised they were off pace 2014,and figured to get the youngsters finals experience

 

[Pessimistic]

Makes you think of our 2011 prelim squad where puopolo shiels suckling stratton smith schoenmakers bailey were fresh

Only bateman guerra bailey murphy franklin osborne have moved on from that group so our replacement rate since has been about two per year. But note that three seasons have passed since geelong were grand finalists

Note that roughead was missing

 

[Procrastinator35]

Please now tell me you've watched every Box Hill game this season. I shouldn't even be replying to this comment.

Not EVERY game NO....But enuf all the same!

 

[Furn2]

What ? and miss out on winning 4 straight ?

 

[Brishawk]

It's easy to critique another poster when they have stuck their neck out to propose a possible scenario based on research & precedent.....Hows about you give us your likely guide to our list management at the end of this season, seen as you appear to be such an expert in the field?????

To add some perspective, you are trading away almost our entire depth for draft picks. There is no guarantee we are going to secure any of the players you have proposed. How does your deal look if we recruit only one or two of them and the rest are failures? What does it do to our 2015 flag chances?

 

[dipper86]

Unless we have a replacement for Lake next year such as Frawley.......then Lake plays on.