List Mgmt. Hawk's List Management 2024

[Gut Runner]

What is clear though is we need to go much harder for FA talent.

 

[The hands of stone]

This is not the "I think we should have drafted Player X" thread. * off with that s**t.

Honestly, if you're writing kids off at Round 2 of a season give yourself an uppercut.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

There is so much good stuff in here. I reckon you are bang on with so much of it. I’ll post in detail in the next few days when I have time.

My main beef this season is our two strengths last season were Sic in defence and Jai in the middle. And we have rolled both out in the exact same roles this season and they have both been clamped. It’s s**t coaching. Jai needs to go to half back and Sic maybe into the middle. Weddle should be in the middle. Amon on a wing. Nash and McKenizie in the 2s. We haven’t evolved the side at all other than the recruits.

agree with the general sentiment around deepening versatility but dont think those examples are good ones. Sic should definitely be playing HB given we are already undermanned back there. They need his leadership. and I think Newk should be developing forward, not defence. Ward or McKenzie make more sense off a HB. Newcombe's strengths feel less valuable as a distributor, whereas it suits Ward's running power and McKenzie's creative kicking.

 

[Elhawko]

I'm surprised people are singling out our younger brigade as being our big issue. They aren't. Weddle is a potential superstar. McKenzie played his best game this weekend and stood up when more experienced players were falling by the wayside. He may have turned a corner against the Dees. Ward is a slow burn who is building and building and if he never becomes an excitement machine, he will be a solid citizen who contributes every week over a long career. The Wiz looks like he will be setting up scoring opportunities for years to come, although he is a little limited in the roles he can play. Hustwaite might be another good one, although his lack of leg speed bothers me a little when I look at the make-up of our midfield. Ginni and Massimo look like very good acquisitions, both under 22. Ramsden might be OK but he's going to take time. McCabe and Dear are too new to judge but the reports we have had on them are encouraging. CMac and Seamus are not bad and should continue to improve. I think Blanck has potential to be a long-term shut down defender, even if he is not likely to ever become an attacking weapon. Add Day and Newk to that list and the cohort of young players is by far our biggest asset.

Moorey and CJ are not too much older. Moorey was our best last week and has been excellent for the last two seasons. CJ is a bit of a question mark but he has dash and x-factor at least.

Where we are weak is actually in the 25+ age bracket. These are players who should be standing up and setting an example for the young players, not vice versa. That this group is weak should not be a surprise. We deliberately and quite reasonably eschewed the draft while trying to squeeze the last drop from the lemon when we were good and from 2012 until 2019, when we finally took Will Day at 13, I don't think we had a draft pick in the first round. We probably should have hit the draft a year or two earlier than we did but that's in retrospect. Many of the players we did choose with our first selections in those drafts were later picks who did not amount to much and who have moved on (O'Brien, Howe, Hartung, Burton, Kosi etc). We've actually been lucky that players like Sic (pick 56), Lewis (76), Worps (45) and Hardwick (44) have been as good as they have given they were all later selections. Add to that that we have recruited only two players who were first round picks for their original clubs (Scrim, 7, and Cooper S, 16), and its hardly a shock that we are not able to compete with teams boasting mature superstars like Petracca, May, Oliver and Gawn.

I know Sam says we have all/most of the components of our next premiership side but I'm not convinced! The worry for me is that our mature players, not our youngsters, are mostly B -graders. Sic aside, I doubt there is another player on our list over 25 who rival fans would look on with envy. Teams without a key forward might be jealous of Lewis but I think that would be about it, and he would not be their first pick if they could select any KPF in the league to join their team. And so for a list like ours to be competitive right now we need a really effective game plan (currently conspicously lacking) and we need all of these middle-aged players to be at their very best executing it. The sobering fact is that there is not likely to be a lot of improvement in players once they hit 25 and less and less improvement each year thereafter. What we have seen from our 25+ age group so far, as their draft history suggests, is that they just don't have the talent to compete with the better sides - we know this because we have been a bottom team for most of their careers! Given our kids won't start hitting their collective peak for another 3-5 seasons, I'm worried that there is going to be a lag period where our best players are too young to take us to the top of the mountain and our mature players don't have the ability (Sic and maybe one or two others aside) and need A-graders to provide the team's cutting edge while they provide support.

We desperately need to trade in some genuine match-winners. But other than our deep pockets, I'm not sure how attractive a prospect we are to any gun player who is open to a move.

And so personally, if at the end of this season it looks like we are stagnating I hope the club takes a Croad/McFarlin approach and will be open to trading out almost anyone on our list over 25 for draft collateral so we can get in all the talent we can before Tassie launches. 2028 would be a great time to have a really strong list.

 

[Adebisi]

The club is very bullish on Mckenzie, he doesn’t have the confidence yet, but he will in good time.

DGB hurts, we recruited him to be a main stay highly dependable back. But look at that entire draft after DGB, it’s a s**t show of epic proportions.

Ginni has been very impressive. So has Massimo.

Bruest showed the tiniest sign that he wasn’t as confident in his own athletic ability vs Dees, will be an interesting watch.

 

[mustang]

I'm surprised people are singling out our younger brigade as being our big issue. They aren't. Weddle is a potential superstar. McKenzie played his best game this weekend and stood up when more experienced players were falling by the wayside. He may have turned a corner against the Dees. Ward is a slow burn who is building and building and if he never becomes an excitement machine, he will be a solid citizen who contributes every week over a long career. The Wiz looks like he will be setting up scoring opportunities for years to come, although he is a little limited in the roles he can play. Hustwaite might be another good one, although his lack of leg speed bothers me a little when I look at the make-up of our midfield. Ginni and Massimo look like very good acquisitions, both under 22. Ramsden might be OK but he's going to take time. McCabe and Dear are too new to judge but the reports we have had on them are encouraging. CMac and Seamus are not bad and should continue to improve. I think Blanck has potential to be a long-term shut down defender, even if he is not likely to ever become an attacking weapon. Add Day and Newk to that list and the cohort of young players is by far our biggest asset.

Moorey and CJ are not too much older. Moorey was our best last week and has been excellent for the last two seasons. CJ is a bit of a question mark but he has dash and x-factor at least.

Where we are weak is actually in the 25+ age bracket. These are players who should be standing up and setting an example for the young players, not vice versa. That this group is weak should not be a surprise. We deliberately and quite reasonably eschewed the draft while trying to squeeze the last drop from the lemon when we were good and from 2012 until 2019, when we finally took Will Day at 13, I don't think we had a draft pick in the first round. We probably should have hit the draft a year or two earlier than we did but that's in retrospect. Many of the players we did choose with our first selections in those drafts were later picks who did not amount to much and who have moved on (O'Brien, Howe, Hartung, Burton, Kosi etc). We've actually been lucky that players like Sic (pick 56), Lewis (76), Worps (45) and Hardwick (44) have been as good as they have given they were all later selections. Add to that that we have recruited only two players who were first round picks for their original clubs (Scrim, 7, and Cooper S, 16), and its hardly a shock that we are not able to compete with teams boasting mature superstars like Petracca, May, Oliver and Gawn.

I know Sam says we have all/most of the components of our next premiership side but I'm not convinced! The worry for me is that our mature players, not our youngsters, are mostly B -graders. Sic aside, I doubt there is another player on our list over 25 who rival fans would look on with envy. Teams without a key forward might be jealous of Lewis but I think that would be about it, and he would not be their first pick if they could select any KPF in the league to join their team. And so for a list like ours to be competitive right now we need a really effective game plan (currently conspicously lacking) and we need all of these middle-aged players to be at their very best executing it. The sobering fact is that there is not likely to be a lot of improvement in players once they hit 25 and less and less improvement each year thereafter. What we have seen from our 25+ age group so far, as their draft history suggests, is that they just don't have the talent to compete with the better sides - we know this because we have been a bottom team for most of their careers! Given our kids won't start hitting their collective peak for another 3-5 seasons, I'm worried that there is going to be a lag period where our best players are too young to take us to the top of the mountain and our mature players don't have the ability (Sic and maybe one or two others aside) and need A-graders to provide the team's cutting edge while they provide support.

We desperately need to trade in some genuine match-winners. But other than our deep pockets, I'm not sure how attractive a prospect we are to any gun player who is open to a move.

And so personally, if at the end of this season it looks like we are stagnating I hope the club takes a Croad/McFarlin approach and will be open to trading out almost anyone on our list over 25 for draft collateral so we can get in all the talent we can before Tassie launches. 2028 would be a great time to have a really strong list.

I agree with this would you trade Sicily for picks for example. Also if we do finish low on the ladder would you let say Hardwick walk if he got us a good pick seeing we don’t have a full hand this year of our own or would you more do a bit of a reset in the rebuild.

 

[Hot Cheese Rioli]

Not sure about this myself, but I have been wondering if there is anything in the Hardwick to the forward line change we've seen this off-season (granted it's not really shaped up like that in the two matches):

• Are we preparing for life without Hardwick as we did when we knew Buddy was off? Might be that we have an inkling that he could take up his free agency option and therefore prepared to use him elsewhere in order to let our future backs get more opportunities this season

Not that I'm advocating for it, but we should be in-line for some decent compo if he were to go elsewhere...

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Not sure about this myself, but I have been wondering if there is anything in the Hardwick to the forward line change we've seen this off-season (granted it's not really shaped up like that in the two matches):

• Are we preparing for life without Hardwick as we did when we knew Buddy was off? Might be that we have an inkling that he could take up his free agency option and therefore prepared to use him elsewhere in order to let our future backs get more opportunities this season

Not that I'm advocating for it, but we should be in-line for some decent compo if he were to go elsewhere...

He’s been played forward because we like what he brings to that area of the ground, and it’s different to what others bring.

Not because of a conspiracy to ready ourselves for him leaving.

 

[Walshawk]

I'm surprised people are singling out our younger brigade as being our big issue. They aren't. Weddle is a potential superstar. McKenzie played his best game this weekend and stood up when more experienced players were falling by the wayside. He may have turned a corner against the Dees. Ward is a slow burn who is building and building and if he never becomes an excitement machine, he will be a solid citizen who contributes every week over a long career. The Wiz looks like he will be setting up scoring opportunities for years to come, although he is a little limited in the roles he can play. Hustwaite might be another good one, although his lack of leg speed bothers me a little when I look at the make-up of our midfield. Ginni and Massimo look like very good acquisitions, both under 22. Ramsden might be OK but he's going to take time. McCabe and Dear are too new to judge but the reports we have had on them are encouraging. CMac and Seamus are not bad and should continue to improve. I think Blanck has potential to be a long-term shut down defender, even if he is not likely to ever become an attacking weapon. Add Day and Newk to that list and the cohort of young players is by far our biggest asset.

Moorey and CJ are not too much older. Moorey was our best last week and has been excellent for the last two seasons. CJ is a bit of a question mark but he has dash and x-factor at least.

Where we are weak is actually in the 25+ age bracket. These are players who should be standing up and setting an example for the young players, not vice versa. That this group is weak should not be a surprise. We deliberately and quite reasonably eschewed the draft while trying to squeeze the last drop from the lemon when we were good and from 2012 until 2019, when we finally took Will Day at 13, I don't think we had a draft pick in the first round. We probably should have hit the draft a year or two earlier than we did but that's in retrospect. Many of the players we did choose with our first selections in those drafts were later picks who did not amount to much and who have moved on (O'Brien, Howe, Hartung, Burton, Kosi etc). We've actually been lucky that players like Sic (pick 56), Lewis (76), Worps (45) and Hardwick (44) have been as good as they have given they were all later selections. Add to that that we have recruited only two players who were first round picks for their original clubs (Scrim, 7, and Cooper S, 16), and its hardly a shock that we are not able to compete with teams boasting mature superstars like Petracca, May, Oliver and Gawn.

I know Sam says we have all/most of the components of our next premiership side but I'm not convinced! The worry for me is that our mature players, not our youngsters, are mostly B -graders. Sic aside, I doubt there is another player on our list over 25 who rival fans would look on with envy. Teams without a key forward might be jealous of Lewis but I think that would be about it, and he would not be their first pick if they could select any KPF in the league to join their team. And so for a list like ours to be competitive right now we need a really effective game plan (currently conspicously lacking) and we need all of these middle-aged players to be at their very best executing it. The sobering fact is that there is not likely to be a lot of improvement in players once they hit 25 and less and less improvement each year thereafter. What we have seen from our 25+ age group so far, as their draft history suggests, is that they just don't have the talent to compete with the better sides - we know this because we have been a bottom team for most of their careers! Given our kids won't start hitting their collective peak for another 3-5 seasons, I'm worried that there is going to be a lag period where our best players are too young to take us to the top of the mountain and our mature players don't have the ability (Sic and maybe one or two others aside) and need A-graders to provide the team's cutting edge while they provide support.

We desperately need to trade in some genuine match-winners. But other than our deep pockets, I'm not sure how attractive a prospect we are to any gun player who is open to a move.

And so personally, if at the end of this season it looks like we are stagnating I hope the club takes a Croad/McFarlin approach and will be open to trading out almost anyone on our list over 25 for draft collateral so we can get in all the talent we can before Tassie launches. 2028 would be a great time to have a really strong list.

Sicily would be the only player over 25 with any decent trade value.

 

[Brant]

Not that I'm advocating for it, but we should be in-line for some decent compo if he were to go elsewhere...

Losing Hardwick to free agency would be a disaster. Nobody is paying big money for a Back Pocket - we'd be lucky to get a 2nd Rounder as compo.

This & ideas like it are crazy talk.

 

[Hot Cheese Rioli]

Losing Hardwick to free agency would be a disaster. Nobody is paying big money for a Back Pocket - we'd be lucky to get a 2nd Rounder as compo.

This & ideas like it are crazy talk.

It wouldn't be big money just for a back pocket would it? It would also be money for a swing man a team could use forward. If we like the different dynamic he brings to our forward line, then it stands to reason another team would be interested in that also.

I'm just pondering, nothing more, but I definitely don't consider it crazy talk. He's a bloody good player and would walk into most sides.

I agree it would be a disaster for us along with the pittance compo we would get

 

[Hot Cheese Rioli]

He’s been played forward because we like what he brings to that area of the ground, and it’s different to what others bring.

Not because of a conspiracy to ready ourselves for him leaving.

I suspect you're right on the conspiracy front and it's as simple as we like him forward. Makes most sense.

I am worried that his head could be turned by another offer though. His manager will be fielding calls for sure.

 

[SSSSSS]

Jesus were two games in and already planning for life without Sicily and Hardwick next year.

Can't wait for those magic beans.

 

[Elhawko]

I agree with this would you trade Sicily for picks for example. Also if we do finish low on the ladder would you let say Hardwick walk if he got us a good pick seeing we don’t have a full hand this year of our own or would you more do a bit of a reset in the rebuild.

Well, I said 'almost' deliberately because Sis is one player we can't give up. But if we don't progress this year that says to me that most of the other older guys are basically treading water until the young guys can take the lead. Otherwise we'd be winning more games. BUT we might yet have a good year - I'm not saying we won't because it's too early for that. But IF we don't see progress then that tells me that the older cohort have maxed out and then I think we have decisions to make. Hardwick could go if we got a decent pick in return. I remember the gnashing of teeth from Hawks supporters when we traded Croad, then Nathan Thompson and Jon Hay but it helped set up the Clarko era. I'm not sure we've got a lot of collateral but in principle, the idea of trading established players doesn't faze me.

 

[FB19]

My concern is CMac. He’s going to be a jet and I worry a side could turn his head with a big offer and promise of much greater midfield time. Of our young brigade I rate him along with weddle as absolute priorities for our list build. At least CMac is in contract this year.
We also have a lot ok players coming out of contract this year by my count it is 16 with 5 free agents and 11 not. Going to be interesting to see what that looks like by seasons end.

 

[HedgeFund]

Ward is becoming a worry. His work rate allowed him to dominate In juniors by being fitter than everyone else, He was OK at every other aspect without being great. I thought he might be our version of Andrew Bradshaw, but he struggles with the contested side of the game

FWIW - in his first 3 seasons Andrew Brayshaw averaged as follows:

2018 - 7.5 kicks / 8.5hbls
2019 - 7.6 kicks / 9.3hbls
2020 - 8.6 kicks / 11.2 hbls

When he turned 21, and started his 4th season - he blossomed as far as output is concerned.

Yes his contested game was there from the start, but Ward’s actual output is ahead of Andy’s.

The more he plays inside, the more Ward can start to work on the physical stuff.

That will most likely develop over the course of this season.

 

[Hodgey 15]

We were thinking that Nash and Newcombe would progress. Not regress like have so far this year.

After 2 Rounds they've regressed?
Out of form yes but saying they have regressed is an utterly reactive comment.

 

[HedgeFund]

After 2 Rounds they've regressed?
Out of form yes but saying they have regressed is an utterly reactive comment.

We seem to be getting a lot of that around here ATM.

 

[TylerDurden]

 

[SSSSSS]

Apart from the diabolical effort in the first quarter and the last ten minutes or so of the fourth I don't think we were too bad. We matched Melbourne around the ground for almost a half of footy - minus scoring.

We looked like a rebuilding developing club out there. Boys vs Men in the middle. Development isn't linear and we're going to play some s**t games and it's going to suck but we'll surprise a few teams.

Hopefully next week.

I do think we are missing that dynamic midfielder. Day is one but we need another.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

I regretfully listened to this

Its totally disingenuous and ignores facts to suit his narrative to shift focus to North

He wont have the balls to say it to Mitchell either on SEN

 

[burner1]

Apart from the diabolical effort in the first quarter and the last ten minutes or so of the fourth I don't think we were too bad. We matched Melbourne around the ground for almost a half of footy - minus scoring.

We looked like a rebuilding developing club out there. Boys vs Men in the middle. Development isn't linear and we're going to play some s**t games and it's going to suck but we'll surprise a few teams.

Hopefully next week.

I do think we are missing that dynamic midfielder. Day is one but we need another.

I think when you’re 32 points down at quarter time it’s hard to read that much into the 2nd quarter fight back - dees may have eased back for a bit as were in full control. They stepped it up in last quarter and we had nothing.

 

[burner1]

FWIW - in his first 3 seasons Andrew Brayshaw averaged as follows:

2018 - 7.5 kicks / 8.5hbls
2019 - 7.6 kicks / 9.3hbls
2020 - 8.6 kicks / 11.2 hbls

When he turned 21, and started his 4th season - he blossomed as far as output is concerned.

Yes his contested game was there from the start, but Ward’s actual output is ahead of Andy’s.

The more he plays inside, the more Ward can start to work on the physical stuff.

That will most likely develop over the course of this season.

Ward doesn’t appear to love the contest. It’s rare that this can be really fixed, particularly for an inside mid.
Compare Ward to day - day even when a stick in his first year had no hesitation to going in hard and taking game on.

 

[SSSSSS]

Ward doesn’t appear to love the contest. It’s rare that this can be really fixed, particularly for an inside mid.
Compare Ward to day - day even when a stick in his first year had no hesitation to going in hard and taking game on.

Nah

 

[Bugs1977]

Someone needs to get fired for a mistake like this. In excusable IMO.