Maths re the new stadium.

[UpForGrabs]

Also - if anyone thinks that Packer and his pals won't significantly boost Burswood's entertainment facilities once the stadium's built, then you're sadly mistaken.

Look for cinemas, more restaurants, shops etc (akin to Crown) to keep patrons in the area a little longer. Mum and Dad feel like a spin of the roulette wheel after the match, so they ship the kids off to see The Avengers 4 for a couple of hours.

 

[Admiral Byng]

Burswood should be serviced by multiple lines.

Armadale - existing
Thornlie - existing
Mandurah - via originally intended and proposed connection through to Thornlie line
Midland - transfer through Claisebrook
Clarkson - transfer through Claisebrook
Fremantle - transfer through Claisebrook

If the intention is for all bar Arm/Thorn passengers to connect through Perth and arrive at one station it will be a disaster. With a bit of forward thinking it could be extremely efficient... If you can eliminate the need for as many passengers as possible to alight in Perth and change trains you make things a lot easier.

The sinking of the Fremantle rail line project makes a big difference. The plan will be to run trains from Fremantle and Clarkson through Perth station and on to Belmont Park without passengers needing to change trains, same for the retrun journey after the game. Armadale and Thornlie passengers will get a direct route going the other direction. It does mean Mandurah and Midland passengers will need to change trains at Perth central to get to the stadium. Midland passengers have the additional option of walking between Claisebrook station and Belmont Park via Windan Bridge if they want to avoid the hassle of changing trains.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Also - if anyone thinks that Packer and his pals won't significantly boost Burswood's entertainment facilities once the stadium's built, then you're sadly mistaken.

Look for cinemas, more restaurants, shops etc (akin to Crown) to keep patrons in the area a little longer. Mum and Dad feel like a spin of the roulette wheel after the match, so they ship the kids off to see The Avengers 4 for a couple of hours.

I've heard this argument before. If it is the case, so what?

Packer probably has a few things in the pipeline for Burswood, irrespective of the stadium. Remember the Dome site it yet to be redeveloped.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

They estimate roughly 28000 will need to come from the city via train. Trains can only leave the station at a min of one every four minutes. Over an hour period it would be impossible to service that many passengers let alone manage peak commuter traffic.

Peak would be mon-fri 3:30 - 6:00 pm.

Any Friday night games would start around peak and finish late, Sunday and Saturday are quite on our PT system.

This will seriously boost the capacity of Perth Station to move people around.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

Peak would be mon-fri 3:30 - 6:00 pm.

Any Friday night games would start around peak and finish late, Sunday and Saturday are quite on our PT system.

This will seriously boost the capacity of Perth Station to move people around.

This does nothing to address the issue of carrying capacity and the physical constraints placed on entry/exits for trains which sits at an absolute minimum of 1 every 4 minutes.

I like your blind optimism, but it is the exact same kind of blind optimism that people expressed when questions were raised about on site, or local parking, street access and road infrastructure upgrades.

I will repeat it one more time, it is physically impossible for Perth station to service an addition 28K people, given time constraints and the use of one line, even ignoring substantial investment into buying additional trains and carriages. You are being hoodwinked, but "hope" and the idea of a glossy new stadium are blinding people to the reality of the situation.

As soon as the announcement was made, stressing the need for drastic changes in public behaviour, taking the onus off the state government to deliver on the required infrastructural upgrades (if at all even possible, which I doubt) alarm bells should have gone off.

 

[greennick]

Im not sure how you can say no way. I suggest you look at the upgrades happening at Perth Station as part of the City Link project, the platforms will clear a lot quicker. Remembering that Perth station will only cater for three lines after the football, at the moment it caters for four during current matches.

In the long run other infalstructure will make Burswood the superior option.

They've said the new train station by the stadium will take trains from every line directly.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

This does nothing to address the issue of carrying capacity and the physical constraints placed on entry/exits for trains which sits at an absolute minimum of 1 every 4 minutes.

I like your blind optimism, but it is the exact same kind of blind optimism that people expressed when questions were raised about on site, or local parking, street access and road infrastructure upgrades.

I will repeat it one more time, it is physically impossible for Perth station to service an addition 28K people, given time constraints and the use of one line, even ignoring substantial investment into buying additional trains and carriages. You are being hoodwinked, but "hope" and the idea of a glossy new stadium are blinding people to the reality of the situation.

As soon as the announcement was made, stressing the need for drastic changes in public behaviour, taking the onus off the state government to deliver on the required infrastructural upgrades (if at all even possible, which I doubt) alarm bells should have gone off.

If they where running 1 platform in Perths direction then that would be a serious issue. But the station is going to have six platforms.

They could fill two or three trains at the same time on different platforms heading back towards Perth.

But the process would be made a whole lot simpler if they build a second rail crossing at the windan bridge and if they built a subway connecting the midland and armadale lines. If you did that you could run four sets Perth bound in minutes and no one would need to change trains and platforms.

The only commuters that would need to get off at Perth are those using the Mandurah line and if they extended the thorlie line to meet up with the mandurah line then that number be much much smaller.

The last part says it all. Too hard.

They've said the new train station by the stadium will take trains from every line directly.

It will have to given the lack of rolling stock.

 

[UpForGrabs]

I've heard this argument before. If it is the case, so what?

Packer probably has a few things in the pipeline for Burswood, irrespective of the stadium. Remember the Dome site it yet to be redeveloped.

No arguments from me - I think it's a great idea.

I only raised the point for those who think that footy should stay at Subi because of the surrounding pubs/restaurants etc, and that Burswood has none of that (which even now is a lie).

By the time the first football is bounced at the stadium, Burswood will be redeveloped to such an extent that people will find it hard to leave the area straight away.

 

[Scotland]

By the time the first football is bounced at the stadium, Burswood will be redeveloped to such an extent that people will find it hard to leave the area straight away.

Is that because of free will or because the traffic/PT gridlock has them trapped like prisoners?

 

[Kernel Sanders]

Bloody Hell you're a bunch of whinging Nancy's.

"We want at a 80,000 + stadium, has to appease the green tree hugging hippies, has to disperse patrons within 5 minutes, has to have 50,000 parking on site in case, needs to be under budget, has to cater to me flying my chopper in....."

Shut your pie hole and be grateful we are getting a stadium. If I have to hang around for an hour having a few beers while the crowd disperses, so be it.

 

[greennick]

Bloody Hell you're a bunch of whinging Nancy's.

"We want at a 80,000 + stadium, has to appease the green tree hugging hippies, has to disperse patrons within 5 minutes, has to have 50,000 parking on site in case, needs to be under budget, has to cater to me flying my chopper in....."

Shut your pie hole and be grateful we are getting a stadium. If I have to hang around for an hour having a few beers while the crowd disperses, so be it.

What if they stop service at 3/4 time though like at Subi!

 

[Gizza]

Bloody Hell you're a bunch of whinging Nancy's.

"We want at a 80,000 + stadium, has to appease the green tree hugging hippies, has to disperse patrons within 5 minutes, has to have 50,000 parking on site in case, needs to be under budget, has to cater to me flying my chopper in....."

Shut your pie hole and be grateful we are getting a stadium. If I have to hang around for an hour having a few beers while the crowd disperses, so be it.

I also don't understand how people think getting in and out of this new stadium will be worse than Subiaco even with an extra 20k people. The streets and public transport around Subi is absolutely hopeless. People talk about having to change trains to get to this new stadium. But more lines require changing trains currently to get to Subi than will be needed to get to Burswood.

 

[garlic munchers]

I am for a Subi redevelopment, fantastically convenient when driving from South of the river and doing the park and walk.

At first it would appear that any rebuild would face insurmontable issues with the bigger crowd. But with the probably $150m plus saved from building on a swamp/tip, we could go ahead with the already canvassed light rail/tram for Perth Hay street route to Subi to Stirling Highway and upgrade the stations on the Subi line from 1960's relics.

Promptly get a brand new staduim, go someway to resolving Perth's public transport woes (sorry all this concentrated effort on getting 50 odd thousand people from one spot to another for 20 odd days of the year is rubbish).

Spend the money so the upgrades benefit the general public every day of the year and watch the support flow in.

 

[Scotland]

Why did the Victorians upgrade the 100,000 seat MCG to seat 100,000?
Why did they demolish Waverley and build Docklands?
Why are the South Australians spending $500m to redevelop Adelaide Oval and shift footy from AAMI Stadium?
Etc.

The 'it's a waste of money spending money on something that 50,000 people use 22 times a year' school of thought is short-sighted and naive and goes a long way to explaniing why in 2012 we still have a stadium built in 1908 with sub-par facilities.

 

[Auric Goldfinger]

Also - if anyone thinks that Packer and his pals won't significantly boost Burswood's entertainment facilities once the stadium's built, then you're sadly mistaken.

Look for cinemas, more restaurants, shops etc (akin to Crown) to keep patrons in the area a little longer. Mum and Dad feel like a spin of the roulette wheel after the match, so they ship the kids off to see The Avengers 4 for a couple of hours.

of course, by the time the stadium is built, that would be "the avengers 44" by then

seriously though i agree....

i have seen the plans and am super impressed at its location, it really would be no more walking distance than what it is to walk from melbourne cbd to the mcg, and having the casino and entertainment complex there, as well as a square oval (doesnt make sense i know) for the other sports, it truly has the possibility to be a world class facility... as long as of course it allows for future increase in size....

burswood golf course was rubbish anyway so wont be missed imo....

and theoretically i could actually bus it down canning highway as well...

 

[garlic munchers]

Why did the Victorians upgrade the 100,000 seat MCG to seat 100,000?
Why did they demolish Waverley and build Docklands?
Why are the South Australians spending $500m to redevelop Adelaide Oval and shift footy from AAMI Stadium?
Etc.

The 'it's a waste of money spending money on something that 50,000 people use 22 times a year' school of thought is short-sighted and naive and goes a long way to explaniing why in 2012 we still have a stadium built in 1908 with sub-par facilities.

History as you note is relevant, MCG is the redevelopment of a ground which is terms of location is more Subi than Burswood. Ethihad is an inner city redevelopment which in no way can be compared to the Burswood. The Adelaide comparison is just as baffling and you do realise why they got rid of Waverley?

 

[Eastern Rangers]

History as you note is relevant, MCG is the redevelopment of a ground which is terms of location is more Subi than Burswood. Ethihad is an inner city redevelopment which in no way can be compared to the Burswood. The Adelaide comparison is just as baffling and you do realise why they got rid of Waverley?

The MCG is located in an area nothing like Subiaco, as the MCG sits in the old Olympic Park area it isn't as close to it's urban surrounds as Subiaco and given the renewal and redevelopment of Burswood peninsular this stadium could be of a similar proximity to the same level of amenities as the MCG.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

We have one of the world's leading architects designing what is supposedly a belter of a stadium, within walking distance of the CBD and people are sooking.

 

[masai]

Subiaco has a road network that absorbs a lot of cars, Burswood has Victoria Park Drive and the Freeway, big roads no doubt but they can't take 10,000 cars leaving all at once.

Vic Park and Burswood are a lot further away than the parking available at the moment at Subiaco. It's the "you can't do that in Perth" attitude that does my head in.

For another option for getting people out, a ferry system!

Hi.

I can't for the life of me see how you can praise the road network around Subiaco !!!!.

Yep alot of people may have to adjust their thinking when we move to Burswood ( Forman Field ). There are alot of varying transport options to the new stadium, alot more than available at present, plus the existing transport options will be upgraded.

I just reckon people are to stubborn to think outside the square. As I'm regularly told, change is going to happen ........... adapt.

 

[Scotland]

The road network around Subiaco is more multi-directional. FWIW that is not me saying it's better.

It connects to the West via Stirling Highway, Railway Rd etc.
It connects to the East via Thomas/Loftus St over the Freeway to Vincent St, Charles St etc.
It connects to the South via Thomas St to the Farmer Freeway, Murray/Wellington St to the Kwinana Freeway and Kings Park Road to Riverside Drive and the Causeway.
It connects to the North via the Mitchell Freeway.

The Burswood site is essentially serviced by the Farmer Freeway and Great Eastern Highway only, though I don't know what access direct from Great Eastern Highway will look like when it's done. Everyone in the North and West and some from the East will be trying to go the same way.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Hi.

I can't for the life of me see how you can praise the road network around Subiaco !!!!.

Yep alot of people may have to adjust their thinking when we move to Burswood ( Forman Field ). There are alot of varying transport options to the new stadium, alot more than available at present, plus the existing transport options will be upgraded.

I just reckon people are to stubborn to think outside the square. As I'm regularly told, change is going to happen ........... adapt.

The roads around Subiaco where for the most part designed before Cars existed, the lack of quality road infalstructure makes the place more livable for what it's worth. Suburbs today are designed for cars and not people. Go figure.

Scotland is half right. The ability of Subiaco to disperse traffic better than Burswood isn't detirmed by the proximity of Freeways, main roads and highways beyond it's general proximity. Each site has different strengths in this regard, Burswood is very close to GFF and GEH will have a huge capacity to move cars East. However given the population lives west it's not a huge advantage,

Subiaco has three freeways moving cars away from it, they are further away than GFF is to the proposed stadium but two of them are are easier to access from Subi than Burswood. Subi has "a" road network, Burswood doesn't, one minor articular road feeding one freeway and highway doesn't constitute anything and has a fraction of a fraction to the capacity of the roads surrounding Subiaco Oval.

Imagine if you got all the cars that park for games at Subiaco and put them in one open air carpark within 1km of the stadium and you removed all of the streets, roads around that carpark and stadium. Try forcing all those cars down Railway Rarade with no side streets and then onto the mitchell freeway north or south. It isn't going to happen.

Remembering Burswood Casino already has 2100 parking bays and they will all be in use on game days/ nights, the roads have limited capacity for parking and any increase in parking will require comprehensive investment in road infalstructure in the area ie: on the peninsular.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

We have one of the world's leading architects designing what is supposedly a belter of a stadium, within walking distance of the CBD and people are sooking.

Two actually and they are winging about both.

http://www.pertharena.com.au/

 

[ziad]

tried to find a cafe around subi - it is dead. move on

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Two actually and they are winging about both.

http://www.pertharena.com.au/

I'm not overly thrilled with a threefold blowout of the arena - but at least we have something quality being built.

I honestly don't get the criticism - it looks mint i reckon

Similarly if the stadium ends up costing 1.5bn but is awesome, I'd prefer that to a 1bn stadium that is bog average

 

[Scotland]

I'd prefer we looked ways to reduce the cost from $1bn in the first place...

People whinge about $1bn not going to hospitals or schools or a new belltower or whatever, but if you float the idea of sending contracts interstate or overseas watch the mouths begin to foam...