Expansion Matt Rowell re-signs with Gold Coast, Noah Anderson expected to follow suit, Jack Bowes trade vindictated ???

[Hamingja]

Stupid by the club.
He expects to play senior games with the premiers.

This trade will burn them not only on giving away a top ten talent, but also a regular 22 performer.

I don't even think what Clark or Bowes end up doing on field at Geelong is the biggest issue for GC in this.

Bowes came through their academy and had fully bought in to the club. His parents moved to the GC and were a host family for the GC draftees.

He ended up with his big contract because he was willing to back end it to help GC out cap wise during the COVID period.

Then GC have turned around and shafted him cold.

Culture is priceless and GC have s**t all over themselves here.

I hope Bowes has a big year next year so GC get the crap they deserve over this from the footy media.

 

[Rich01]

I don't even think what Clark or Bowes end up doing on field at Geelong is the biggest issue for GC in this.

Bowes came through their academy and had fully bought in to the club. His parents moved to the GC and were a host family for the GC draftees.

He ended up with his big contract because he was willing to back end it to help GC out cap wise during the COVID period.

Then GC have turned around and shafted him cold.

Culture is priceless and GC have s**t all over themselves here.

I hope Bowes has a big year next year so GC get the crap they deserve over this from the footy media.

Yep, they lose Bowes, Brodie and Rankine.
All top ten draft picks. In return they get nothing for them. Madness.

It’s no wonder other clubs pillage their list with this level of stupidity from their list management team.

 

[kreglze]

If we were to make finals this year, all of the list nonsense would be some what forgiven. Big qualifying IF however.

 

[Jirik13]

Yep, they lose Bowes, Brodie and Rankine.

Geez, Suns did not lose Bowes and Brodie. They did not want them. Both were not and would not be in the best 22 comes 2023.

Yes, Rankine is a big loss, but Suns have players to step in.

BTW, Rankine is the only player in the last 3 years Suns lost they wanted to keep. In fact, most teams lost players in that period. Compare Suns to GWS who continually draft high picks only to see them go in a couple of years and just repeat the cycle. I guess it's a good business for Victoria teams.

Picks were the least problem for Suns due to concessions in recent years. You can't have all best 22 made from first round picks. Still plenty of young talent on Suns list right now complemented by mature and core players. Difference is that depth players are now on cheap, and Suns have a cap space for future.

Just curious, would you prefer keeping Chol after the year he had with Suns? Could I dare to say that Tigers were incompetent to let him go? Riewoldt vs Chol next year? I know who I prefer.

Just teasing you a bit. I think Tigers list looks impressive at least on the paper for next season. Tigers should contend for premiership.

 

[Rich01]

Geez, Suns did not lose Bowes and Brodie. They did not want them. Both were not and would not be in the best 22 comes 2023.

Yes, Rankine is a big loss, but Suns have players to step in.

BTW, Rankine is the only player in the last 3 years Suns lost they wanted to keep. In fact, most teams lost players in that period. Compare Suns to GWS who continually draft high picks only to see them go in a couple of years and just repeat the cycle. I guess it's a good business for Victoria teams.

Picks were the least problem for Suns due to concessions in recent years. You can't have all best 22 made from first round picks. Still plenty of young talent on Suns list right now complemented by mature and core players. Difference is that depth players are now on cheap, and Suns have a cap space for future.

Just curious, would you prefer keeping Chol after the year he had with Suns? Could I dare to say that Tigers were incompetent to let him go? Riewoldt vs Chol next year? I know who I prefer.

Just teasing you a bit. I think Tigers list looks impressive at least on the paper for next season. Tigers should contend for premiership.

Bowes and Brodie are big losses.
Both top ten picks flushed down the toilet along with pick seven just to get them off the books.

Their recruitment, investment in their development then offloading for a net negative return is horrible.

Just because you get extra concessions from the AFL means you should squander them. They can’t come running hand in cap in a couple of years if they are struggling due to this gross list mismanagement.

As for Chol, yeah we wanted him to stay.
But he accepted an offer at GC that we didn’t have the right to match as to him being a UFA.

Brodie and Bowes in a completely different boat. Both contracted at GC and both offloaded for less than nothing in order to pay to keep other players in the future.

Any loss of a core player to another club over the next two years will be an indicator that this plan just hasn’t worked.

 

[Rich01]

If we were to make finals this year, all of the list nonsense would be some what forgiven. Big qualifying IF however.

Why is this the criteria?
Who did you bring in this off season that will be the difference maker that Bowes, Brodie and Rankine couldn’t be?

 

[Orange Agent]

If Bowes doesn't play a senior game next year is it still a good trade? He will have to earn an opportunity to even get in the 22 let alone hold his spot. 1 mill salary between him and Clark for the next 2 years is a lot of money to be playing mostly VFL.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Gold Coast gun makes big call on AFL future, best mate expected to follow

The club’s salary dump during the AFL’s trade period has had ramifications for the highly talented Victorian pair.

7news.com.au

Fantastic news for the Fledgling Suns and their footy club.

I think it's very very unlikely the player Geelong picked up with the pick they got from the Suns in the Jack Bowes trade will be close to the player Rowell and or Noah Anderson are/will be, and I am not convinced at all that Bowes is ever going to be an elite player at AFL level anyway.

Suns ultimately have been vindicated by re-signing (or about to) two of their most valuable long term prospects and assets.

Hopefully Ben King does the same too and re-commits long term to the Suns..

Great news for footy, and all those doom merchants who criticised and condemned the Suns for the Bowes trade have some egg on their faces. Giving up that early pick and Bowes in order to re-sign probably their next captain and his running mate is worth it for the Suns, from a pragmatic perspective
Got some really good kids coming through next draft as well via their Academy

Dare i say its Sunnie Side Up for Gold Coast and I am happy for them. Tony Cochrane is a pain in the ass admittedly, bur he probably is the type of strong personality their footy club needs as chairman.

They shouldn't be offloading a high draft pick to the premiership team. The AFL should have stopped that.
It's bad management all around from the Gold Coast to get in that position.
Another AFL decision that favours Geelong.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

In effect Geelong bought the first round pick

It should have gone to North Melbourne or another struggling club.
I don't know how Geelong stay under the cap, looks dodgy to me.

 

[kreglze]

Why is this the criteria?
Who did you bring in this off season that will be the difference maker that Bowes, Brodie and Rankine couldn’t be?

Well for one, Ben King will actually play a game this year, and secondly natural progression of elite young talent should mean we are better than this year, of course progression isn't linear so who knows.

When you write out our best 22 on paper, it looks like it should be competing for top 8, and that is despite losing Rankine (which hurts) and moving Bowes and Brodie on who weren't in the best 22, according to the coaching staff.

 

[Rich01]

Well for one, Ben King will actually play a game this year, and secondly natural progression of elite young talent should mean we are better than this year, of course progression isn't linear so who knows.

When you write out our best 22 on paper, it looks like it should be competing for top 8, and that is despite losing Rankine (which hurts) and moving Bowes and Brodie on who weren't in the best 22, according to the coaching staff.

Getting Brodie, Bowes and Rankine off your salary cap didn’t bring a fit Ben King onto your list through.

 

[STPer18]

It should have gone to North Melbourne or another struggling club.
I don't know how Geelong stay under the cap, looks dodgy to me.

Incredible cap management by an incredibly well-run club.

 

[Jirik13]

Bowes and Brodie are big losses.
Both top ten picks flushed down the toilet along with pick seven just to get them off the books.

Their recruitment, investment in their development then offloading for a net negative return is horrible.

Just because you get extra concessions from the AFL means you should squander them. They can’t come running hand in cap in a couple of years if they are struggling due to this gross list mismanagement.

As for Chol, yeah we wanted him to stay.
But he accepted an offer at GC that we didn’t have the right to match as to him being a UFA.

Brodie and Bowes in a completely different boat. Both contracted at GC and both offloaded for less than nothing in order to pay to keep other players in the future.

Any loss of a core player to another club over the next two years will be an indicator that this plan just hasn’t worked.

Considering that Bowes and Brodie were not in best 22 according to the club (I personally agree) not sure why you think they are big losses. As a result of this off-season Suns now have depth players on reasonable salaries, should have a cap space to target a top player in coming years, have money to re-sign Rowell and Anderson as Suns priority and still have talented and maturing list.

Sure, you can say Suns invested into Bowes, Brodie, Scrimshaw development, wasted picks on them, did not develop them properly, drafted wrong players. The reality is that not all picks turn out well. Again, if I can use Tigers as an example, RCD was first round pick in 2018 and was just delisted. Lions drafted Ely Smith in first round and delisted him this year too with no AFL games played. Surprisingly, Suns also have good picks stories - Powell, Ballard, Farrar.

If Suns are guilty of something, it's re-signing some young players to contracts sizes based on potential. It's now common practice top 10 picks get paid 350-400K in 3rd year (Suns started that with Bowes, Scrimshaw, Ainsworth, Brodie). How many can you afford to have on the list? It's obvious to me that when Suns got extra concessions, it meant more top picks coming in (Anderson, Flanders and so on) and sorting of talent had to happen down the track. Especially, when Suns do operate in a different environment and paid extra to keep players. All that young talent can't play AFL, can't be payed. I am actually glad that Suns prioritized players this off-season and seem to avoid GWS scenario.

I have no doubt, Suns would have kept Bowes if he was killing it on the field. For some reason, he looked bad this year after shoulder reco. He was offered to spread his contract like he did with Cats but did not want to do it as he wanted to play AFL instead of toiling in VFL. Hopefully, fresh start will help Bowes but Suns decided that Flanders, Davies, Hollands are their preferred players. They still have Fiorini as a midfield depth (spread his contract recently).

Was/is development environment poor in Suns? Possibly, but I would say Shaw (in charge now) is going a good job. Again, most people don't know that Suns were badly underfunded in that area and probably still are compared to Victoria teams (despite extended list). It is really a joke. When covid hit and soft cap was reduced to 6M Suns were not even allowed to use the reduced cap in full (1M short). People complain about Suns academy, but pre-covid Suns budget for academy was 300-350K. Suns spend millions from the budget to look after Metricon.

As for Chol, yes, different situation compared to Bowes, but Tigers did have a choice. They could let someone go to create a spot/cap space. Supposedly, Suns pay him 400K. E.g., you could tap on Riewoldt shoulder and say it's time to move on. No doubt, Chol would stay if he believed that he would get regular opportunity.

At the end, I am looking at current Suns list and I am cautiously optimistic about 2023. I don't really care how Suns got there. You could say despite their stupidity. For the first time, Suns have a decent shot at finals provided they got some luck with injuries (shocking contact injuries in the last 2 years including 6 ACLs). What's against Suns is that most teams improve too, and it will be battle between probably 14 teams to make finals.

No doubt, Suns admins, coaches made mistakes but IMO, most issues in Suns history were caused by AFL stupidity. To start expansion team in NRL territory for 8 years in metal sheds, with untried coach, admin, with not enough mature players and constantly underfunded in all aspects says it all about AFL headquarters. Just hope that AFL learned from their mistakes and will set up a team in Tasmania properly.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Incredible cap management by an incredibly well-run club.

A well run club with paper bags and friendly local businessmen.

 

[Jirik13]

A well run club with paper bags and friendly local businessmen.

Don't you do the same?

 

[Elmer_Judd]

A well run club with paper bags and friendly local businessmen.

Please explain to me how Richmond could have afforded to sign Tom Lynch a year after The Tigers won the flag ?

 

[Rob R]

It should have gone to North Melbourne or another struggling club.
I don't know how Geelong stay under the cap, looks dodgy to me.

Very well club in a great area (compared to the over populated congested crap heap that is Melbourne) and sponsors especially land developers ready to hand out products at special Geelong player prices.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Rich01]

Sure, you can say Suns invested into Bowes, Brodie, Scrimshaw development, wasted picks on them, did not develop them properly, drafted wrong players. The reality is that not all picks turn out well. Again, if I can use Tigers as an example, RCD was first round pick in 2018 and was just delisted. Lions drafted Ely Smith in first round and delisted him this year too with no AFL games played.

The difference is Scrimshaw and Brodie were top ten picks for the Suns and are best 22 at their new club.

Bowes another top ten pick and you gave away another top ten pick for him to play at the premiers.

These guys weren’t first rounders who weren’t any good and got delisted.

These are decent players that cost draft capital to offload for them to play for another team.

It’s astounding the mismanagement happening here. Gold Coast fans seem to think it’s ok because of the glut of draft picks they keep getting.

When the support in this area gets turned off, perhaps that’s when the list management team at the GC get more serious. They can’t just keep throwing away top assets.

 

[Jirik13]

The difference is Scrimshaw and Brodie were top ten picks for the Suns and are best 22 at their new club.

Bowes another top ten pick and you gave away another top ten pick for him to play at the premiers.

These guys weren’t first rounders who weren’t any good and got delisted.

These are decent players that cost draft capital to offload for them to play for another team.

It’s astounding the mismanagement happening here. Gold Coast fans seem to think it’s ok because of the glut of draft picks they keep getting.

When the support in this area gets turned off, perhaps that’s when the list management team at the GC get more serious. They can’t just keep throwing away top assets.

Exactly, when picks concessions including free pre-listing are gone (as they were this off-season except extended list) Suns will value picks the same way as the rest of competition. Suns still got plenty of picks next year, some will be used on academy kids.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Please explain to me how Richmond could have afforded to sign Tom Lynch a year after The Tigers won the flag ?

We traded out players

 

[kreglze]

Getting Brodie, Bowes and Rankine off your salary cap didn’t bring a fit Ben King onto your list through.

I interpreted the question as who will be the difference maker from last year to this year, and he is a big one right there. To use a Wengerism from his Arsenal days, King will be 'like a new signing'.

Seems like with the ample cap space the club has created, they will be looking to bring in a difference maker in the 2023 trade period, will that happen? Who knows, but that is what they are planning, despite how ham fisted and mismanaged they have been to get there.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Please explain to me how Richmond could have afforded to sign Tom Lynch a year after The Tigers won the flag ?

We traded out Deledio, Butler, Higgins ,Ellis, Chol and others I can't think of.

 

[Rich01]

I interpreted the question as who will be the difference maker from last year to this year, and he is a big one right there. To use a Wengerism from his Arsenal days, King will be 'like a new signing'.

Seems like with the ample cap space the club has created, they will be looking to bring in a difference maker in the 2023 trade period, will that happen? Who knows, but that is what they are planning, despite how ham fisted and mismanaged they have been to get there.

Fair enough. So we can agree that offloading Bowes gave the Suns no advantage for 2023, and impacted their draft capital.

Yep, if they bring in that ‘difference maker’ in the 23 trade period, that will be interesting.

But saying that offloading Bowes is the result of this is just plain wrong. At the end of 23 he will would have had just one year at $800k to wipe off his contract. Hardly stopping a nigh ‘difference maker’ coming across on a big multi year contract. Trading pick 7 this year for one in next years draft would also give them ample collateral to bring someone across.

Instead they burnt the pick, and they will waste more next year in their attempt.

But I’d think your hypothesis is very unlikely.
History tells us that GC struggle to attract elite talent, and are more likely to lose it, or pay more to retain it. It’s the latter situation I believe we are likely to see next year. Which begs the question, what talent is out of contract at the Suns at the end of next year that interstate clubs will be looking at?

 

[PzBlinky]

We traded out Deledio, Butler, Higgins ,Ellis, Chol and others I can't think of.

Not directed at you or anyone in particular, but do we have to bring ANOTHER Cats vs Tigers s**tfight into a thread where it doesn't really belong?

OK, it's tangentially related to the topic at hand but probably not the best place to have the discussion.

P.S. I'm not a mod so you can tell me to go pleasure myself of course, but it'd be nice if other clubs could be discussed without devolving into this.

EDIT: typos.

 

[STPer18]

A well run club with paper bags and friendly local businessmen.

Nawww, of course it's a Tiggie having a cry about little old Geelong again. Remember that GWS plodder who wanted to come to Geelong before your mob offered him a ridiculous 7-year deal? Get better or else your club is looking at a third straight year of not a single finals victory. Yikes!