Naitanui vs Kreuzer

[Elite Master]

Naitanui is a once in generation ruckmen. Kreuzer obviously has a better understanding of the game, but the athleticism and x factor Naitanui brings to the table is too good to pass up.

 

[Morro]

Great poll FWIW.

I went Nic Nat as he can learn the game over time, and as good as Kruezer is, you cant be taught to be the biggest athletic freak to play the game.

Obviously would love either, but I also feel Kruezer has been a little overrated at times.

 

[HighettBomber]

Nic Nat by quite a long way. While he struggles to get the ball in general play and has very average disposal, his ability to win hit outs and direct them to advantage is undeniable. Kreuzer is another Josh Fraser, good ground player for a ruckman but not good enough to play as a running player and not overly good in the hit outs. His ability as a forward is also severely overated and not backed up by performances.

 

[jive]

Nat Nic. Easily. Once he further develops his work rate and his around the ground skills he will be completely unstoppable.

I highly rate Kruezer - I just can't seem him getting a lot better. Nic Nat's scope for improvement, however, is out of sight.

 

[astroboy4800]

Tough choice but I would prob take nic nat because of his athleticism but at the same time unfair comparison as kreuzer has been injured and will need to see this year out before I can make a better judgment call on it.

 

[Belltower]

Both will be very good to great players but I would take nic Nat every time because he gives us first use out of the centre and has more untapped potential. People are saying he is inconsistent, not so, he generally gets 10-15 possessions and 20+ hitouts, he can dominate a quarter and then you don't see him much and with one of the best ruckman of all time out there, what does it matter. He plays a role in the forward line, as the get-out kick in the goalsquare and rarely gets outmarked. Actually kicked 18 goals last year and already has 4 in 3 games,not bad for an unnatural forward.
Commentators have been making statements " is kreuzer the best ruckman in the league", what are they on, 3 good games and he is better than sandilands. Sandilands has absolutely dominated this year,clearly best, typical media carry on.

 

[astroboy4800]

Both will be very good to great players but I would take nic Nat every time because he gives us first use out of the centre and has more untapped potential. People are saying he is inconsistent, not so, he generally gets 10-15 possessions and 20+ hitouts, he can dominate a quarter and then you don't see him much and with one of the best ruckman of all time out there, what does it matter. He plays a role in the forward line, as the get-out kick in the goalsquare and rarely gets outmarked. Actually kicked 18 goals last year and already has 4 in 3 games,not bad for an unnatural forward.
Commentators have been making statements " is kreuzer the best ruckman in the league", what are they on, 3 good games and he is better than sandilands. Sandilands has absolutely dominated this year,clearly best, typical media carry on.

They will be the best big mencome seasons end mark my words
But what I watched with fascination was nic nat last years final against the pies dumy taps and with one hand baulks around 3 pies and bombs it from 65 and just narrowly misses, he is magic
But kreuzers performing dont delude yourself in to thinking otherwise, he is getting his straps together this year and will be a force to be wreckoned with.

 

[Belltower]

They will be the best big mencome seasons end mark my words
But what I watched with fascination was nic nat last years final against the pies dumy taps and with one hand baulks around 3 pies and bombs it from 65 and just narrowly misses, he is magic
But kreuzers performing dont delude yourself in to thinking otherwise, he is getting his straps together this year and will be a force to be wreckoned with.

Best big men, not sure about that, Sandi are Cox are stll around, while NicNat and Kreuzer are great in certain areas they don't have the complete game of the others yet. I didn't say he wasn't performing but was just having a go at the commentators/media for going over the top. So far this year Sandi is clearly the best ruckman, daylight, then a number of others including NicNat, Kreuzer would be around the same. Nic Nat has already proven he can play on the big stage due to his outstanding games against Collingwood and Geelong last year, Kreuzer will likely do the same as he seems to thrive under pressure. They were talking Zac Smith up last year as already being better than NicNat haven't heard a peep of that so far this year.

 

[astroboy4800]

Best big men, not sure about that, Sandi are Cox are stll around, while NicNat and Kreuzer are great in certain areas they don't have the complete game of the others yet. I didn't say he wasn't performing but was just having a go at the commentators/media for going over the top. So far this year Sandi is clearly the best ruckman, daylight, then a number of others including NicNat, Kreuzer would be around the same. Nic Nat has already proven he can play on the big stage due to his outstanding games against Collingwood and Geelong last year, Kreuzer will likely do the same as he seems to thrive under pressure. They were talking Zac Smith up last year as already being better than NicNat haven't heard a peep of that so far this year.

The reason they will be the best big men in the game is simple
Both can play up the ground, they can run, adapt and kick goals, where as cox and sandi dont have the x factor of kicking goals the way these 2 do.
The dillemma for west coast and carlton can be do they play these 2 guys up forward or in the ruck.

 

[beatlesmith]

I don't think any one would question that Naitanui is the better ruckman of the two, in the sense of winning taps and putting them to advantage, nor would anyone question that Kreuzer is the better forward.
The reason why I rate Naitanui higher is because literally every aspect of his game (short of his athletic talents) has steadily improved every season since he was drafted. He's slotting set shots from outside 50, he's taking more big marks and he's winning more taps.

Kreuzer is a very good, well rounded footballer, and that is what Naitanui should be aspiring to be. However, Naitanui's massive scope for improvement belies the fact that he is already playing good footy and influencing games, and that is the remarkable thing about him as a player. Given his consistent improvement already and the fact that he is being taught the trade by one of the best ruckmen ever, himself a player who consistently improved throughout his career, I have absolute confidence in Naitanui becoming an absolutely exceptional footballer.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

I tend to agree.

Kruezer still has a lot of improvement left in him though.

Let's not kid ourselves though, Naitanui's footskills are good... for a ruckman.

He's rightly got a lot of confidence in his game at the moment and things are coming off; look at Hurley for an example.

Before he was injured today he barely hit a target by hand or foot, but I don't think anyone would argue he has worse disposal skills than Naitanui... or that his disposal isn't exceptional.

Now, I'm not trying to knock Nat.

Ruckman don't need exceptional footskills, anyway he more than makes up for that by having brilliant ground ball skills.

 

[astroboy4800]

Proven on the weekend, kreuzer went missing in action and nic nat dominated keeping west coast unbeaten, early daysd but mid season nic nat will fire especially come finals time

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Naitanui was good.

Hardly dominant.

 

[kaiserchief13]

Naitanui was good.

Hardly dominant.

Why was his SC score so much higher than his DT score? Because his impact was far greater than the stats say. Now he maybe wasn't in the best 3 on the ground but he certainly was in the best 5 or 6.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Exactly.

I watched the game, and he was good.

Top half dozen is, as I said, 'hardly dominant'.

 

[September_Glory]

Dominant is overboard. Naitanui was okay, perhaps bordering on good vs. Hawks.

Remember who he was playing against as well, a concussed David Hale and a part time ruckmen Roughhead.

It just wasn't the night for big men.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

For some reason Naitanui barely rucked in the first half. Cox would have had the lion share.

From the opening throw up in the second half, Naitanui gave our midfield major ascendancy and was a catalyst for many of our forward 50 thrusts and subsequent goals. I had him as our second best player.

I still laugh, even in this thread, people talking about Kreuzer being the more "footy smart" footballer. We are 4 rounds in and Naitanui who is supposedly thick has had more possessions, more goals and more goal assists. All of which you'd think would require some footy smarts.

Personally in terms of ruckwork, my belief is the two aren't even close. In terms of the overall package it does tighten up.

 

[West123]

I'd take NicNat because we already have Cox who is the developed version of Kreuzer.

 

[SpaceClef]

Regarding NN's disposal - he isn't a bad kick, it's not a weapon obviously, but it's not terrible. On the other hand, his handballing is exquisite. Keep an eye out for his releasing handballs in heavy congestion, often coupled with a 'don't argue' or two

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Nic Nat by quite a long way. While he struggles to get the ball in general play and has very average disposal, his ability to win hit outs and direct them to advantage is undeniable. Kreuzer is another Josh Fraser, good ground player for a ruckman but not good enough to play as a running player and not overly good in the hit outs. His ability as a forward is also severely overated and not backed up by performances.

I think that's a bit of a myth. His field kicking is much improved and his set shot kicking has always been good. Not to mention his creativity by hand which is superb.

 

[lamaros]

I think that's a bit of a myth. His field kicking is much improved and his set shot kicking has always been good. Not to mention his creativity by hand which is superb.

Doublespeak for 'throws'.

 

[GriddleCakes]

Doublespeak for 'throws'.

haters gon hate

 

[astroboy4800]

If west coast had converted half those goals in the first half, nic nat would have stood out by a mile, it was a struggling and titanic effort by both teams, but west coast came from half time been goalless, nic nat did enough to helphis team, got in the thick of it, ran hard, did all the right stuff that was needed.

 

[bodazoka]

Doublespeak for 'throws'.

Throwing isn't illegal in the AFL anymore.

Naita for mine, but I support WC so....

 

[NAB777]

Kruezer. It won't even be close in a couple of years time.
Much much better football brain. I will be surprised if he doesn't win a Brownlow.