Strategy Natural footballers. How many do we have and how many does a team need?

[Square Peg]

The brief bright cameo of Jye Amiss was nigh on the best thing about our finals campaign. I was struck by a description of him in the game thread - he's just a natural footballer.

For better or worse the AFL is the elite competition for our sport but is also a killing field for natural footballers, hundreds upon hundreds of more talented players discarded in favour of running machines doing pressure acts. And yet when one like Jye appears, we mostly all recognise a natural footballer when we see one and love the natural footballers more.

And more to the point, a team needs them. You can't have a team full of people who aren't natural footballers but have crucial attributes such as they can run all day {acres,schultz), are fast (frederick, walker), are strong (logue), are tall (lobb). There has to be a peak number of players that you look at and say, well he's just a natural footballer.

We lost a natural footballer to retirement yesterday, a guy who never would have made any team based on his running game or beep testing but who could do those things only natural footballers can do, make time stand still. How many more do we have left? Walters, Serong, Chapman has the potential, Amiss now, others? How many more, if any more, do we need?

 

[Vimal Anand]

Johnson? Erasmus? sturt depends on his body?

 

[Purple Jesus]

The brief bright cameo of Jye Amiss was nigh on the best thing about our finals campaign. I was struck by a description of him in the game thread - he's just a natural footballer.

For better or worse the AFL is the elite competition for our sport but is also a killing field for natural footballers, hundreds upon hundreds of more talented players discarded in favour of running machines doing pressure acts. And yet when one like Jye appears, we mostly all recognise a natural footballer when we see one and love the natural footballers more.

And more to the point, a team needs them. You can't have a team full of people who aren't natural footballers but have crucial attributes such as they can run all day {acres,schultz), are fast (frederick, walker), are strong (logue), are tall (lobb). There has to be a peak number of players that you look at and say, well he's just a natural footballer.

We lost a natural footballer to retirement yesterday, a guy who never would have made any team based on his running game or beep testing but who could do those things only natural footballers can do, make time stand still. How many more do we have left? Walters, Serong, Chapman has the potential, Amiss now, others? How many more, if any more, do we need?

I disagree with you on Shultz. Just because he’s not a A+, doesn’t mean he’s not a natural footballer. I wouldn’t describe him as an athlete.

 

[Square Peg]

Johnson? Erasmus? sturt depends on his body?

I agree Johnson will be an interesting one to watch when he debuts. I didn't get any strong vibe of natural footballer when Erasmus debuted this year, he will be a beast of a player I hope but not in that elusive category of natural footballer

 

[Scham]

The more, the better imo. We don't have enough currently.

 

[BStaff17]

O'Driscoll is a natural goal scorer that's something we seriously lack. We don't have many players with goal nous near the sticks.

Ginnivan is an a-hole but he can kick a snap goal in a pack. Who in our team can manage that except sonny perhaps.

 

[Joao]

O'Driscoll is a natural goal scorer that's something we seriously lack. We don't have many players with goal nous near the sticks.

Ginnivan is an a-hole but he can kick a snap goal in a pack. Who in our team can manage that except sonny perhaps.

The interesting thing about NOD is that he said he wasn't much of a goal kicker growing up. So it just so happens that the role he has exposes him and he is good enough to cash in. If he can keep it up, its massive. Kicked like 10 in 12 didn't he? Huge off a wing these days.

 

[BStaff17]

The interesting thing about NOD is that he said he wasn't much of a goal kicker growing up. So it just so happens that the role he has exposes him and he is good enough to cash in. If he can keep it up, its massive. Kicked like 10 in 12 didn't he? Huge off a wing these days.

Yeah it's not just kicking goals it's how they are being kicked. Like the impossible boundary ones or the snaps in the pocket.

Outside of NOD who else in the team has proven to be reliable shot from a snap in the pocket.

 

[Piggy Smalls]

Young, Serong, Brayshaw, Brodie, Walters, Ryan, Fyfe, Clark, Switkowski, and Chapman all come to mind if you are talking high footy IQ, clean hands and good skills in the mould of Amiss.
Henry fits the mould too but he hasn’t quite put it together yet.

 

[Footskill]

O'Driscoll is a natural goal scorer that's something we seriously lack. We don't have many players with goal nous near the sticks.

Ginnivan is an a-hole but he can kick a snap goal in a pack. Who in our team can manage that except sonny perhaps.

Banfield many don't rate him, but in front of goals crumbing he seems to know where find the goals even with limited game time. He shouldn't be playing 3rd tall or flying in large packs

In the game he got crap on vs GWS he was the tall lol

 

[Docker82]

I’ll be honest I actually think the game is heading further and further towards players that have above average athleticism.

It’s part of the reason I thought Amiss was a much much better prospect than JVR last year. Amiss has very good athleticism and elite football ability. JVR had below average athleticism and very good football ability.

We’re heading towards a future when the very best players in the league have at least very good athleticism but also elite football ability.

There isn’t enough talent that every player has very good athleticism and very good football ability so they’ll be guys that get by at being average at one or the other. Some may even be like Mundy and be elite at one or the other and still be one of the best in the competition.

We were cut apart with superior athletes last night - let’s not kid ourselves otherwise. Athleticism is as important as football ability.

 

[Square Peg]

Young, Serong, Brayshaw, Brodie, Walters, Ryan, Fyfe, Clark, Switkowski, and Chapman all come to mind if you are talking high footy IQ, clean hands and good skills in the mould of Amiss.
Henry fits the mould too but he hasn’t quite put it together yet.

It's all interpretation of course and based on the eye test but I can't agree about Switta, or even Brayshaw. Brayshaw is brilliant and could win a Brownlow but I still wouldn't call him a natural footballer.

 

[Joao]

It's all interpretation of course and based on the eye test but I can't agree about Switta, or even Brayshaw. Brayshaw is brilliant and could win a Brownlow but I still wouldn't call him a natural footballer.

yyou would be proud.

 

[Lach72]

It's all interpretation of course and based on the eye test but I can't agree about Switta, or even Brayshaw. Brayshaw is brilliant and could win a Brownlow but I still wouldn't call him a natural footballer.

Wot

 

[ImperialPurple]

It's all interpretation of course and based on the eye test but I can't agree about Switta, or even Brayshaw. Brayshaw is brilliant and could win a Brownlow but I still wouldn't call him a natural footballer.

Interested why you think Brayshaw isn't. He comes from a decent football (sporting) pedigree, so there's footballing ability there. Would you say Gus is a natural footballer?

 

[Square Peg]

I’ll be honest I actually think the game is heading further and further towards players that have above average athleticism.

It’s part of the reason I thought Amiss was a much much better prospect than JVR last year. Amiss has very good athleticism and elite football ability. JVR had below average athleticism and very good football ability.

We’re heading towards a future when the very best players in the league have at least very good athleticism but also elite football ability.

There isn’t enough talent that every player has very good athleticism and very good football ability so they’ll be guys that get by at being average at one or the other. Some may even be like Mundy and be elite at one or the other and still be one of the best in the competition.

We were cut apart with superior athletes last night - let’s not kid ourselves otherwise. Athleticism is as important as football ability.

Yes for better or worse athletes with inferior skills are prevailing. To the extent that a guy like Brodie, who I agree has elite hands, could be out of our best 22 if he doesn't build a tank the game plan relies on.
Clearly even players with elite skills need to do the work, but you see a guy that gets games based on his athleticism predominantly and wonder if we need less of these types.

 

[Square Peg]

Interested why you think Brayshaw isn't. He comes from a decent football (sporting) pedigree, so there's footballing ability there. Would you say Gus is a natural footballer?

I think gus is closer than andy, sure. Doesn't mean gus is a better footballer for those missing the point

 

[cardamon]

I think we have em, just need to keep developing and bodybuilding. One thing really noticeable at the ground last night was that collingwood seemed bigger, faster, more powerful. We need some big 28 year olds that can just bumper off opposition players. Until then we won't be able to handle good physical pressure teams like last night

 

[ImperialPurple]

I think gus is closer than andy, sure. Doesn't mean gus is a better footballer for those missing the point

You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but I'm interested in why you think Andy isn't a natural footballer.

 

[FDH16]

The brief bright cameo of Jye Amiss was nigh on the best thing about our finals campaign. I was struck by a description of him in the game thread - he's just a natural footballer.

For better or worse the AFL is the elite competition for our sport but is also a killing field for natural footballers, hundreds upon hundreds of more talented players discarded in favour of running machines doing pressure acts. And yet when one like Jye appears, we mostly all recognise a natural footballer when we see one and love the natural footballers more.

And more to the point, a team needs them. You can't have a team full of people who aren't natural footballers but have crucial attributes such as they can run all day {acres,schultz), are fast (frederick, walker), are strong (logue), are tall (lobb). There has to be a peak number of players that you look at and say, well he's just a natural footballer.

We lost a natural footballer to retirement yesterday, a guy who never would have made any team based on his running game or beep testing but who could do those things only natural footballers can do, make time stand still. How many more do we have left? Walters, Serong, Chapman has the potential, Amiss now, others? How many more, if any more, do we need?

The problems our club faces is twofold.

1. Our midfield is not big enough and lacks a dynamic bull. Serong is an honest operator who runs both ways, but he cannot burst through the front of stoppage, he is an extractor who releases runners laterally. Brayshaw is a winger, pretending to be a contested ball player, club needs to park him on the outside and let him blow up his opponents that way. Fyfe isn't going to be a burst through player anymore, he will crash and bash and hurt some bodies to create space, but he too can't exit the front door. Brodie doesn't have the leg speed to burst and so we win, funnel laterally and then try and play a game of keepy off.
2. Our forward line is utter garbage. We finished year 13th in points for, just piping Essendon in the Home and Away season. It lacks talent, first and foremost, but perhaps more evident and revealed last night in horrible clarity, was the ball movement employed by the brains trust at Freo Coaching HQ. The forward line is in the bottom third of the AFL, yet, we insist on building the ball up and allowing opposition defences to roll and set, forcing our non-competitive tall marking forwards to compete in crowds. Collingwood demonstrated that the worst your forwards are, the quicker the ball needs to arrive.

Someone, anyone with an ounce of foresight, needs to collar JLO and remind him that a style of football based on spreading, linking up with uncontested marking chains, became finals irrelevant when the AFL insisted on making the man on the mark, stand.

Speed on the ball will win flags, not the structured slow ball movement, "allowing us to set up behind the ball bullshit" just won't fly anymore.

 

[Dockeroo]

The problems our club faces is twofold.

1. Our midfield is not big enough and lacks a dynamic bull. Serong is an honest operator who runs both ways, but he cannot burst through the front of stoppage, he is an extractor who releases runners laterally. Brayshaw is a winger, pretending to be a contested ball player, club needs to park him on the outside and let him blow up his opponents that way. Fyfe isn't going to be a burst through player anymore, he will crash and bash and hurt some bodies to create space, but he too can't exit the front door. Brodie doesn't have the leg speed to burst and so we win, funnel laterally and then try and play a game of keepy off.
2. Our forward line is utter garbage. We finished year 13th in points for, just piping Essendon in the Home and Away season. It lacks talent, first and foremost, but perhaps more evident and revealed last night in horrible clarity, was the ball movement employed by the brains trust at Freo Coaching HQ. The forward line is in the bottom third of the AFL, yet, we insist on building the ball up and allowing opposition defences to roll and set, forcing our non-competitive tall marking forwards to compete in crowds. Collingwood demonstrated that the worst your forwards are, the quicker the ball needs to arrive.

Someone, anyone with an ounce of foresight, needs to collar JLO and remind him that a style of football based on spreading, linking up with uncontested marking chains, became finals irrelevant when the AFL insisted on making the man on the mark, stand.

Speed on the ball will win flags, not the structured slow ball movement, "allowing us to set up behind the ball bullshit" just won't fly anymore.

I do agree with most of this.
The faster the ball moves, the better chance to getting scores.
Jlo is a smart guy though and I think he can and will adjust.
Regarding the burst player from stoppages, could NOD be the answer here in 2 or 3 years??

 

[blue shark]

I do agree with most of this.
The faster the ball moves, the better chance to getting scores.
Jlo is a smart guy though and I think he can and will adjust.
Regarding the burst player from stoppages, could NOD be the answer here in 2 or 3 years??

Johnson has the speed, size to become that player.
Would of liked to see Crowden given a chance at least once this year as a
Mid. But appears his papers are signed.
Another inside/outside mid maybe on the cards.

 

[Dockeroo]

Johnson has the speed, size to become that player.
Would of liked to see Crowden given a chance at least once this year as a
Mid. But appears his papers are signed.
Another inside/outside mid maybe on the cards.

Crowden is too slow and he’s tiny.
Not an option for this role.
Good to hear Johnson has a bit of speed, he’s a big boy

 

[Piggy Smalls]

It's all interpretation of course and based on the eye test but I can't agree about Switta, or even Brayshaw. Brayshaw is brilliant and could win a Brownlow but I still wouldn't call him a natural footballer.

I get where you are coming from. In the context of the OP, I was going to leave Andy out as his elite traits are based around his work ethic but I think he has an inherent game understanding and lifts in key moments which is a trait of a natural footballer.

 

[TheMcManusNose]

It's all interpretation of course and based on the eye test but I can't agree about Switta, or even Brayshaw. Brayshaw is brilliant and could win a Brownlow but I still wouldn't call him a natural footballer.

I disagree with your interpretation here. While I tend to agree with whoever above said that the game is moving slowly towards people who have above average athleticism there is still a range of 'natural footballers'.

There's natural footballers like Walters who seem to know where the goals are, know where to put the ball and have the skills to do it.

There's natural footballers like Serong or Brodie who can just pull the ball out of a pile of 5 blokes and ping out hands in a second.

And there's natural footballers like Brayshaw who have none of those gifts of mechanical skill but know when to work harder and when to push to get in the way or provide an option.

I contrast that to what frustrates me no end at the ammos level which is when you see a campaigner on the wing who runs up and down all day but never actually gets into a good spot to continually provide an option or effect the play because they simply have no feel for the game.

I agree there's guys who have all the physical gifts but no idea mentally and no real redeeming skill on top of it. Maybe a Hughes type, although I think that's a touch harsh on him.

Really what I think the title should be is 'natural goal kickers, how many do we have and how many does a team need?'