New Russian relationship

[Ned_Flanders]

Good god. Why does it matter that the Taiwanese are mainly of the same ethnic group?

Because this is a north / South Korea or east andnl West Germany situation.

They consider themselves Chinese. Thats why when China was weak they didn't declare independence, because they still yearn for the day when the CCP collapses, and they can take over governing of the mainland.

The actual Taiwanese people are the ones who got ****ed. Had their land stolen. Their culture buried. And it was illegal to even speak Taiwanese in taiwan for a generation.

 

[sdfc]

Because this is a north / South Korea or east andnl West Germany situation.

They consider themselves Chinese. Thats why when China was weak they didn't declare independence, because they still yearn for the day when the CCP collapses, and they can take over governing of the mainland.

The actual Taiwanese people are the ones who got f’ed. Had their land stolen. Their culture buried. And it was illegal to even speak Taiwanese in taiwan for a generation.

So Taiwan don't deserve independence because colonialism? All while defending the PRC.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

So Taiwan don't deserve independence because colonialism? All while defending the PRC.

If they don't declare independence, why are we sacrificing lives to hand it to them?

I want zero to do with this upcoming war, and I genuinely don't get people like you desperate for it to happen

 

[sdfc]

If they don't declare independence, why are we sacrificing lives to hand it to them?

I want zero to do with this upcoming war, and I genuinely don't get people like you desperate for it to happen

Is this a joke? We know why they don't declare independence.

I don't think anyone who's not a nutter wants a war. Whether independence is peacefully achievable or not is a completely different matter to whether the Taiwanese deserve recognition as a separate state.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Is this a joke? We know why they don't declare independence.

I don't think anyone who's not a nutter wants a war. Whether independence is peacefully achievable or not is a completely different matter to whether the Taiwanese deserve recognition as a separate state.

Why not declare in the 80s or 90s or even in the last decade when China lacked the military might to respond? Third time I'm asking...

If the USA and Australia push independence,,l it will be war. No if buts or maybes.

Do you also plan on supporting Australians troops on the Ukrainian border?

 

[sdfc]

Why not declare in the 80s or 90s or even in the last decade when China lacked the military might to respond? Third time I'm asking...

If the USA and Australia push independence,,l it will be war. No if buts or maybes.

Do you also plan on supporting Australians troops on the Ukrainian border?

There was little support for independence in the 80s and 90s. Taiwan was a nationalist dictatorship until the late 80s. The demographics have changed, but the geopolitics remain unchanged. Then, as now, a declaration of independence would require US military support.

I also object to the military junta in Myanmar, but I'm not advocating we invade.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

There was little support for independence in the 80s and 90s. Taiwan was a nationalist dictatorship until the late 80s. The demographics have changed, but the geopolitics remain unchanged. Then, as now, a declaration of independence would require US military support.

I also object to the military junta in Myanmar, but I'm not advocating we invade.

Then why push for this now? It will be military intervention, and that will lead to a Pacific war (I find it hysterical that people here think Australia won't be attacked if we fight the Chinese in taiwan)

Fwiw I'm expecting war, and when that happens my wife and I leave for NZ or Singapore.

 

[sdfc]

Then why push for this now? It will be military intervention, and that will lead to a Pacific war (I find it hysterical that people here think Australia won't be attacked if we fight the Chinese in taiwan)

Fwiw I'm expecting war, and when that happens my wife and I leave for NZ or Singapore.

I doubt we'd go to war over Taiwan even if the Chinese invaded., but hopefully the threat prevents them from doing so. If the Chinese take over Taiwan through military might that doesn't make it right. The PRC's behaviour in HK has boosted independence sentiment in Taiwan.

The issues with China go beyond Taiwan, they're pissing off most of their neighbours with their expansionism.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I doubt we'd go to war over Taiwan even if the Chinese invaded., but hopefully the threat prevents them from doing so. If the Chinese take over Taiwan through military might that doesn't make it right. The PRC's behaviour in HK has boosted independence sentiment in Taiwan.

The issues with China go beyond Taiwan, they're pissing off most of their neighbours with their expansionism.

Its not about right or wrong. Its going to be a cluster * regardless of outcome.

I don't want us near Ukraine, Kurdistan, palestine, or kashmir. Yet we have our defence minister and mandarins talking about beating the drums of war against an emerging super power.

There will be war, and we will be at the van

 

[Power Raid]

China has a long history of expansion.

yep

through force they conquered and consolidated the nation that is china today

add to that conquering the Uyghurs which is essentially Kazakh people

They had a shot at vietnam 2 or three times ceasing mainland and islands

Conquered Tibet

Currently attacking India and Bhutan and on their last shot at India annexed Indian territory

Ongoing involvement in numerous skirmishes in Africa

Eyeing off Taiwan after two failed attempts to bomb Taiwan into submission

Had a shot at the Soviet Union and now seeking to take land of Russia with an established incursion


China has proven history as a warmongering expansionist state

 

[Power Raid]

I doubt we'd go to war over Taiwan even if the Chinese invaded., but hopefully the threat prevents them from doing so. If the Chinese take over Taiwan through military might that doesn't make it right. The PRC's behaviour in HK has boosted independence sentiment in Taiwan.

The issues with China go beyond Taiwan, they're pissing off most of their neighbours with their expansionism.

We have no choice

The US is committed to Taiwan as is Japan. With that we will get involved.

 

[Power Raid]

In regards to Russia, I can see four options:

1) chuck Ukraine under the bus and lose support of anyone else wanting to join the West
2) Go to war with Russia and bomb the s**t out of the Ukraine cities trying to push Putin out (not going to happen)
3) Go to war with Russia and bomb the s**t out of Moscow and Russian cities (not going to happen)
4) Support guerilla warfare in the Ukraine over 10 years and see Russia pushed out like they were in Afghanistan

5) Support a coup in Russia (this is my punt)

 

[footyfan1978]

Whilst Putin is still around, corruption is well and truly there and hard to imagine even after he dies it will be gone soon after.
Keep communication open at all times but the bullshit he pulled at Crimea and the dodgy crap over border into Eastern Ukraine where his meddling caused a civilian plane to end up being shot down is not something you would be wise to forgive and forget a few years on. If you lay down with dogs, you get fleas...

Twenty one months later.
A new relationship is closer as he nears his end. Just hope it within a week at worst.

 

[apollo_creed]

If they don't declare independence, why are we sacrificing lives to hand it to them?

I want zero to do with this upcoming war, and I genuinely don't get people like you desperate for it to happen

I actually thought you were reasonable based on other posts but you’re actually coming across as pro CCP which is nothing short of deplorable.

edit - reading through your recent history you’re basically a CCP apologist. You should be so proud of yourself.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I actually thought you were reasonable based on other posts but you’re actually coming across as pro CCP which is nothing short of deplorable.

edit - reading through your recent history you’re basically a CCP apologist. You should be so proud of yourself.

FFS learn to read. Its not about my views and my opinions. India and China both see themselves as being superpowers by the 22nd century.

Both nations have strong anti colonial sentiments for obvious reasons. Why will they lose thousands of lives and billions of dollars to fight a war that isn't theirs?

Same reason we didn't send troops to Yemen, or Burma, or any other place we said "not our issue"

 

[BobbyMorri]

FFS learn to read. Its not about my views and my opinions. India and China both see themselves as being superpowers by the 22nd century.

Both nations have strong anti colonial sentiments for obvious reasons. Why will they lose thousands of lives and billions of dollars to fight a war that isn't theirs?

Same reason we didn't send troops to Yemen, or Burma, or any other place we said "not our issue"

There is a reason India is in the "quad". It would be a major player if China attacks Taiwan without Casus belli.

No, they won't "attack" join in support of Taiwan. What might happen is that they see this as potential to reclaim land lost to China in the Himalayas and gain a greater foothold. It really all depends on how it plays out. If China starts it without reason, then the Western World would be on edge. If Taiwan ever declares itself independent, then that is a whole other issue. The fact is, Taiwan is not stupid. They know that that won't go anywhere and any stiff towards that would backfire. That is why they still go on with the charade that they are the Republic of China. That they claim parts of Mongolia. Any move by them could give China a sniff.

Also Things change. As someone said, Taiwan was under autocratic rule for a large period of time. They only had their first elections in 1996. It is now a flourishing democratic state, which looks at what is happening in Hong Kong and they don't want anything to do with it.

It is also important to note that the war generation is decreasing in number while the young generation has only known Taiwan as a democracy. This generation sees themselves as Taiwanese, where previous ones saw them as Chinese/both. These things happen. You live in Australia, no one calls us pommys nowadays.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

There is a reason India is in the "quad". It would be a major player if China attacks Taiwan without Casus belli.

No, they won't "attack" join in support of Taiwan. What might happen is that they see this as potential to reclaim land lost to China in the Himalayas and gain a greater foothold. It really all depends on how it plays out. If China starts it without reason, then the Western World would be on edge. If Taiwan ever declares itself independent, then that is a whole other issue. The fact is, Taiwan is not stupid. They know that that won't go anywhere and any stiff towards that would backfire. That is why they still go on with the charade that they are the Republic of China. That they claim parts of Mongolia. Any move by them could give China a sniff.

Also Things change. As someone said, Taiwan was under autocratic rule for a large period of time. They only had their first elections in 1996. It is now a flourishing democratic state, which looks at what is happening in Hong Kong and they don't want anything to do with it.

It is also important to note that the war generation is decreasing in number while the young generation has only known Taiwan as a democracy. This generation sees themselves as Taiwanese, where previous ones saw them as Chinese/both. These things happen. You live in Australia, no one calls us pommys nowadays.

You really don't read.

As reported last week, India came out saying that they don't see the quad as a firm military alliance, but a cooperation group. They already were watering down what their commitment to war with China would be compared to us/au/JP before Ukraine was invaded.

Their concerns on China are essentially three:

1) border in the Himalayas
2) Chinese port access in the Indian Ocean
3) handbraking China to give them a chance to catch up

They have zero interest in being a USA vassal like Japan and Australia are (which is why they are abstaining for now on ukraine)

 

[BobbyMorri]

You really don't read.

As reported last week, India came out saying that they don't see the quad as a firm military alliance, but a cooperation group. They already were watering down what their commitment to war with China would be compared to us/au/JP before Ukraine was invaded.

Their concerns on China are essentially three:

1) border in the Himalayas
2) Chinese port access in the Indian Ocean
3) handbraking China to give them a chance to catch up

They have zero interest in being a USA vassal like Japan and Australia are (which is why they are abstaining for now on ukraine)

sorry, didnt make myself clear. blame the time.

India will do whats best for India. They won't go into "war" for Taiwan, but they would take an opportunity to take back the land. It wouldn't be a war, more of a light skirmish on the border if they sense they can get away with it. The Quad keeps them in the loop, nothing more than that

But it all depends on what China does.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

sorry, didnt make myself clear. blame the time.

India will do whats best for India. They won't go into "war" for Taiwan, but they would take an opportunity to take back the land. It wouldn't be a war, more of a light skirmish on the border if they sense they can get away with it.

But it all depends on what China does.

This I agree with. I think the rest of the quad are expecting a lot more tbh

 

[Power Raid]

FFS learn to read. Its not about my views and my opinions. India and China both see themselves as being superpowers by the 22nd century.

Both nations have strong anti colonial sentiments for obvious reasons. Why will they lose thousands of lives and billions of dollars to fight a war that isn't theirs?

Same reason we didn't send troops to Yemen, or Burma, or any other place we said "not our issue"

plus India's military partner and supplier is Russia

plus China seeks to benefit from cheap goods from Russia, that can't be sold overseas (especially hoping for an oil embargo) plus all that Oligarch wealth that will head to their banks rather than London and Washington

At the end of the day Russia will be on the side of the west in the case of a real global war. The West and Russia both know this, that's why the West is doing nothing other than slapping Putin's hand.

 

[CD Xbow]

Gone back to base. The west is spinning more bullshit hysteria

Ha ha, your post has not aged well.
Mr Putin did spin the wheel as I suggested he might, though I didn't realise he would stuff it up so badly.

 

[Jello_B]

plus India's military partner and supplier is Russia

plus China seeks to benefit from cheap goods from Russia, that can't be sold overseas (especially hoping for an oil embargo) plus all that Oligarch wealth that will head to their banks rather than London and Washington

At the end of the day Russia will be on the side of the west in the case of a real global war. The West and Russia both know this, that's why the West is doing nothing other than slapping Putin's hand.

What are the sides in your opinion?

 

[Green Hammer]

Ha ha, your post has not aged well.
Mr Putin did spin the wheel as I suggested he might, though I didn't realise he would stuff it up so badly.

I guess Zels declaration that Ukraine will get nukes was the final straw. Enough is enough

 

[CD Xbow]

I guess Zels declaration that Ukraine will get nukes was the final straw. Enough is enough

Gee, you just make things up.
You were wrong about Putin and you were wrong about western warnings.
He's trashed his legacy.
I think there is something wrong with him, he's normally more controlled and less emotive.

 

[Power Raid]

What are the sides in your opinion?

everyone is in it for themselves why they can get away with it:
- russia takes ukraine (they know the west won't do anything material, china deals with ukraine but will deal with a russian controlled ukraine plus get cheap russian oil)

but when push comes to shove
- russia and the west need each other

this has george orwell written all over it