Nick Suban - When?

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Tbh I'd play Suban a few more games, he is a slow going player. Pity coz in the 2013 Qualifying and before that he was finding his damaging hard form. Pity he's been plagued by foot injuries. Out of Sheridan and him, I play Nic for now. Tommy body is pretty skinny. He's a passionate Freo player for sure, pity it's not reflecting in his form.
 
He's a basic footballer, but a hard worker who gives his all. Not much finesse off the boot and still needs to stop dragging the ball in.


But he has good fundamentals, I rate him as one of our better wet weather players and he is a hard nut too, is willing to get into a bit of agro and is normally in the middle of the melee with Ballas.

At the game with a mate on Sunday (who is a Port Supporter), commented on him saying how hard he was running trying to close down on a few port players who had the ball on the wing, I think its those acts that see him as an asset as opposed to what he directly does with the ball. Saying that there are players that fit his bill better but he adds good depth and maybe being in and out of the team will help him to sharpen up for his next recall.
 

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I've been trying to wrap my head around Suban's continued inclusion for some time now, given the obvious impediments that have been already mentioned. I deeply respect the guy because he bleeds purple like few others have, but on the surface he under-performs as a player, and I'm at a loss to explain his constant inclusion in light of that assumption.

He does lack both for pace and a decent kick on his non-preferred side, but looking at our squad he's far from alone there, so there's got to be more to it.

Looking closely at the Port replay, he clearly wasn't tagging for *all* of the game... matter of fact he was on his own quite a bit in the opening two quarters. On at least two to three sequential stoppages in the first half, he was clearly on his own and made no effort to man up with anyone. Either he was following the game-plan at these times or he wasn't... but either way, he made a seemingly-deliberate decision to remain un-manned.

Thinking about it, it's genuinely rare to see Suban closely manned in a game, so maybe his perceived lack-of-offensive-threat by opposing teams is part of his appeal for the coaching panel (...pause for laughter and numerous snarky comments...) Having said that, his left boot is laser-accurate and for the longest time he used to be the go-to guy for set-play forward 50 entries at any midfield stoppage around CHF, for that very reason.

One thought that did strike me is that when he advanced the ball up-field by foot in the Port game, he really got some distance with many of his kicks, and unlike some of D Pearce's kicking for distance from last year, Suban's kicks were reasonably precise in comparison. It's a hard thing to kick for distance accurately - Hill and Sutty are masters at it, and Sherridan showed a bit of that last game too, so maybe Suban is there to inject this skill into the midfield, without any risk of him being tagged (...pause for even further laughter...).

If I had to take a guess, it's possible Suban's saving grace lies in more obscure stats. While he only got ten or so possies, his meters-gained for those possies would have to be pretty high - maybe there's some internal percentage stat for distance-gained that Suban really nails, or perhaps his movement off the ball / transition play is spot-on. It's hard to follow the guy properly on televised games because of all the close-ups and vision shifts so all this is pure speculation on my part really.

The guy's inclusion continues to be an enigma for me, especially in light of all the competition from Croz, Weller, Blakely, Langdon Duffy et. al. (...BTW, keep an eye on Langdon. While our attention is heavily focussed on Weller and Blakely, Langdon is quietly shaping up as a highly promising player! :thumbsu:)

What is absolutely certain however is that Suban's performance in a game is NOT measured solely by his possession stats, and this has been the case for quite some time. If possession-related stats were the main KPI for Subes, IMO he would have been out on his ear quite some time ago.
 
simpsonwillo said:
beautiful left boot on him. Just needs to find a bit more of it in space. We need these type of kicks. The kicking against Port was pretty poor compared to that of Hawthorn. Kicking the footy and hitting targets is probably one of the most important factors in winning this running game.
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Basically agree. You persist with Suban because he can be so damaging at times by foot and he is ready to play now. He is fairly fit and good at tackling. May be dropped to adjust his game to not dive on the ball. Think his best position is off the left side HBF bit he becomes a liability when he dives on the ball in the defensive 50 at present.

As a coach I can say there is now a big emphasis on getting all players using both sides of their body at junior level. Lefties have got away with it until now but those days are numbered - recruiters will not pick them up if players are not dual sided anymore.
 
I don't know about that meters gained stat! I'm sure if it was significant the commentators would have mentioned it?

The fact is that he rates himself far too highly when in reality his football awareness is absolutely crap. Can someone tell him to stop holding the ball! and that his running speed isn't good enough to take on players.

I swear after all his leg injuries he has never been the same player or maybe he just looked good in a team that was crap at the time!
 
Suban obviously has some characteristics that the coaching panel love (heck we gave him a really long extension on his last contract). I like having him on our list and he does play a significant role on occassions.

But answer me this. When we have a fit squad what does Suban have that could possibly keep out a fit Mzungu or even Crozier for that matter???????? I really can't answer that.
 
Opposition concentrate solely on herding him off his left foot. Once that's done, his only option is to run back into a tackler or hand up a feeble handball to no-one in particular. Cannot even kick the most basic 15m on his right foot and that will always weaken his value. Most one-sided player in the team by a long way.
In saying that, he certainly has learnt to extract the pill from tight situations far better than he used to though.
 
Alfonz alluded to it in another thread but I thought it was a great call.
What about Sutty swapping for Subes, Ibbo into Sutty's role?
 

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go_the_dockers said:
Yeah or Crozier in. Won't be best 22 at end of year.
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Not sure he was last year but with Fyfe's suspensions, Barlow's foot he kept his foot in the door. Can't fault the bloke for trying. He trained his ass off, puts in 100% and seems like a top fella.
Healy spoke about Hawks having the best 25-30 in the comp. With an aging list, a physically demanding gamestyle and lots of travel I'm not sure culling Subes would be a good call.

Perhaps sending him back to Peel with things to work on, as others have said, might be a win win.

He needs to adapt his style to the new rule interpretations and get some capabilities on his right. Difficult but, at 24, not impossible.
 
Lost_Deputy said:
Not sure he was last year but with Fyfe's suspensions, Barlow's foot he kept his foot in the door. Can't fault the bloke for trying. He trained his ass off, puts in 100% and seems like a top fella.
Healy spoke about Hawks having the best 25-30 in the comp. With an aging list, a physically demanding gamestyle and lots of travel I'm not sure culling Subes would be a good call.

Perhaps sending him back to Peel with things to work on, as others have said, might be a win win.

He needs to adapt his style to the new rule interpretations and get some capabilities on his right. Difficult but, at 24, not impossible.
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He needs a right foot. Does not have the speed to our run players or to make space for himself and is not strong enough to run through players. I agree is a good depth player, but I wouldn't want him playing finals football especially against the Hawks where any mistake will be punished.

Happy for him to be a very good depth player who comes in for an injured player or when somebody needs a rest.
 
It's pretty simple, you play your best 22. Suban is not best 22 with everyone fit and firing, I'd certainly have Mzungu and Crozier ahead of him not to mention MDB who brings the effort and hardness but will get more ball and won't give away HTB decisions consistently in our backline.

Wouldn't be surprised if MDB and Suban rotate the sub position for awhile in the first half of the season.
 
malpaso said:
It's pretty simple, you play your best 22. Suban is not best 22 with everyone fit and firing, I'd certainly have Mzungu and Crozier ahead of him not to mention MDB who brings the effort and hardness but will get more ball and won't give away HTB decisions consistently in our backline.

Wouldn't be surprised if MDB and Suban rotate the sub position for awhile in the first half of the season.
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if only we would merge MDB and Suban to be a single player. :(
 
Suban is the kind of player that represents very handy depth, but I just can't see him as best 22 in a fully fit premiership contending team. Very handy to have him on the list for insurance - the great teams like Hawthorn and Geelong have managed to keep players like Suban on the list playing VFL instead of leaving for more opportunities

He is eligible for free agency at the end of next season and I think we will have a hard time convincing him not to explore his options
 
Banker said:
I don't know about that meters gained stat! I'm sure if it was significant the commentators would have mentioned it?
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That's as probably as close to a reason why he's in the team as any. Suban had six inside 50s on the weekend, second most after Fyfe. Now while all but one or two were effective and the rest were turnovers, I have no doubt that one of Lyon's key indicators would be time spent in forward half, and what Suban does is bang the ball long and direct, even if they rarely end up as a mark or effective possession for Freo, he moves the ball further towards Freo's goal, and the rest of the side can work with that to lock it in.

But even taking that into account, is it what the team really needs to beat the best?
 
When he kicks like at the start of this:



He's doing exactly what the coach wants. 50m kick into space in the forward line, let the smalls and mids pounce. Problem is while that breaks Port's defensive lines, the better defences like Hawthorn and Sydney have someone mopping up as a sweeper. That kind of kick into Freo's defence would have McPharlin, Duffield or Johnson mopping up the ball before their opponent got there.
 
After last weekend's game, it may very well be the case that Suban has now taken on D. Pearce's role from last year - collecting the ball and pumping it as far forward as possible. Danyle certainly seemed to be playing a different game, and Suban had quite a few i50's. Maybe now Danyle's role is more about spotting up players and sharking the odd goal.

I expect Suban will have had a fair bake from team leadership over the HTB in defensive 50 - he'll adjust to the new rule and I don't think we'll see it much more ;) Aside from that ****up, the rest rest of his game was serviceable for a first game of the season.
 
Latro said:
Its a good looking kick rather than being a good kick. He does hit the target as often as he should.
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He can hit targets around the ground but cant kick a goal.

I am becoming less and less confident when he marks inside 50. He used to be money every time.
 
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