MFC Fans Only Non-Dees AFL discussion - 2015

[Proper Gander]

We did boo him in round 6, but not a lot of people where interested in it so they where tiny boos. plus he was the sub so he wasn't booed until like late in the third quarter

Dawes didn't play did he? So boos you heard were probably at Goodes.

 

[RandB]

This is a good point. There are so many avenues out there for people to have their say, and hence our FB news feeds etc etc are flooded with the semi-informed opinions of every punter and his dog. It's hard to make sense of it all.

I suppose with all the opinions out there it goes to show that a picture really does tell a thousand words.

Imagine if there were no photographers at Victoria Park that day Nicky Winmar made his spontaneous gesture. It would have been a crime.

 

[RandB]

I wonder sometimes if these moments were easier to control in 1993. The social change of Internet, reality TV etc generating a kind of world of the individual - where the fact of having an opinion is worth more than the content, and the right to speak it is paramount regardless of the impact on another individual. But then I head back down the "in my day" path which is best avoided.

You raise a good point. I think in this day and age we just have to take the good with the bad when it comes to this sort of thing.

 

[Demon 16]

Something that has annoyed me about this whole thing is the way in which the ape/girl incident gets talked about.

Many have blamed Goodes for his actions that night by saying "why did you have to pick out some poor child for public shaming?" as if he had a choice in the matter.

The incident was a split-second thing, and as we know Goodes is not one to let things slip so he turned around and pointed at the source of the "ape" jibe. He had no idea it was a young girl! It's not like it was some little kid coming up to him in a shopping centre and saying something awkward to his face. In that sort of situation you would hope to see some discretion, but in the heat of the moment on the footy field I think it's harsh and probably ignorant to expect a proud Aboriginal man to simply ignore that sort of comment, just because it might be some kid who doesn't know what she's saying.

Whilst I agree with what you've said here, and despite my personal views on the issue and particularly that the booing needs to stop - I do think it's poignant to note that Goodes has never contacted the young girl or her family after the event.

If he was a true leader, he would have taken some interest in how she coped after the event, and supporting her.

He didn't seem to do that - it just felt to me like he wanted his Nicky Winmar moment, without showing any compassion behind the scene.

Anyway - minor point. I do think an element of the booing has been racist, and the element that hasn't now needs to stop as well.

 

[wowlace]

Whilst I agree with what you've said here, and despite my personal views on the issue and particularly that the booing needs to stop - I do think it's poignant to note that Goodes has never contacted the young girl or her family after the event.

If he was a true leader, he would have taken some interest in how she coped after the event, and supporting her.

He didn't seem to do that - it just felt to me like he wanted his Nicky Winmar moment, without showing any compassion behind the scene.

Anyway - minor point. I do think an element of the booing has been racist, and the element that hasn't now needs to stop as well.

I thought I read he did contact her, maybe not, I could be wrong.

 

[Demon 16]

I thought I read he did contact her, maybe not, I could be wrong.

She contacted him. The Police asked her to write him a letter and she and her family wanted to apologise directly. Chanel 10 gave her his number and she called, explained herself and apologised.

After that, he did nothing outside of his public comments.

 

[wowlace]

She contacted him. The Police asked her to write him a letter and she and her family wanted to apologise directly. Chanel 10 gave her his number and she called, explained herself and apologised.

After that, he did nothing outside of his public comments.

Ok, fair enough. But if I may play devils advocate, if I was wronged by someone in that manner, not sure I'd be chasing them for an apology.

 

[Cannon82]

Ok, fair enough. But if I may play devils advocate, if I was wronged by someone in that manner, not sure I'd be chasing them for an apology.

I'd say its more along the lines of checking on the well-being of the 13 year old racist he never intended to humiliate. Maybe put a little substance behind the rhetoric, be the better man and show it actually is about education rather than humiliation, etc.

 

[Demon 16]

Ok, fair enough. But if I may play devils advocate, if I was wronged by someone in that manner, not sure I'd be chasing them for an apology.

No I'm not talking about an apology. She already did that.

He would have understood (as he has stated) that she was very young, after the incident.

He should have showed some interest in her wellbeing, given it was such a high profile accusation against a child.

 

[Demon 16]

I'd say its more along the lines of checking on the well-being of the 13 year old racist he never intended to humiliate. Maybe put a little substance behind the rhetoric, be the better man and show it actually is about education rather than humiliation, etc.

Bang on.

 

[Cannon82]

Bang on.

Would you still agree if I hadn't decided to remove the bit about him thanking her for the opportunity to step up to the pulpit again?

 

[Demon 16]

Would you still agree if I hadn't decided to remove the bit about him thanking her for the opportunity to step up to the pulpit again?

Sorry I need you to explain this further?

 

[Cannon82]

Sorry I need you to explain this further?

I decided not to suggest he was more than happy to throw someone under the bus for the air time. But now I have. Why not.

 

[Demon 16]

I decided not to suggest he was more than happy to throw someone under the bus for the air time. But now I have. Why not.

I would personally stop short of that - but once it happened, I think he should have followed up with low profile, positive actions.

It just didn't bode well for him, if he wants to be a martyr, in my opinion.

 

[Cannon82]

I would personally stop short of that - but once it happened, I think he should have followed up with low profile, positive actions.

It just didn't bode well for him, if he wants to be a martyr, in my opinion.

I'd agree with that, but I prefer to take the cynical route. Carefully prepared and polished statements are the domain of politicians and journalists, and they're all about pushing agendas. He's been acting the polly for years.

 

[Demon 16]

I'd agree with that, but I prefer to take the cynical route. Carefully prepared and polished statements are the domain of politicians and journalists, and they're all about pushing agendas. He's been acting the polly for years.

Going for a very specific constituent though - not going to win him a seat.

I think he's been going for the martyr/legend approach, myself. But that can't be manufactured.

 

[Cannon82]

Going for a very specific constituent though - not going to win him a seat.

I think he's been going for the martyr/legend approach, myself. But that can't be manufactured.

You sure? The demographic he's aiming for is the one collectively patting themselves on the back now. Just a bit of a shame the girl wasn't an adult and it would've spared a lot of the negative campaign feedback.

 

[wowlace]

Looks like the holding the ball interpretation has gone back to pre-last weeks model.

 

[wowlace]

Also, great to see the big dogs can go goal-less for the opening qtr.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Something that has annoyed me about this whole thing is the way in which the ape/girl incident gets talked about.

Many have blamed Goodes for his actions that night by saying "why did you have to pick out some poor child for public shaming?" as if he had a choice in the matter.

The incident was a split-second thing, and as we know Goodes is not one to let things slip so he turned around and pointed at the source of the "ape" jibe. He had no idea it was a young girl! It's not like it was some little kid coming up to him in a shopping centre and saying something awkward to his face. In that sort of situation you would hope to see some discretion, but in the heat of the moment on the footy field I think it's harsh and probably ignorant to expect a proud Aboriginal man to simply ignore that sort of comment, just because it might be some kid who doesn't know what she's saying.

I'll disagree here.

He heard her say it - what did he think she was, a 35 year old man?

I think he said in an interview the next day that he saw it was a young girl and it hit him hard, which is fair enough.

I don't blame him for doing it, but I think if he heard the taunt he would have known it was a kid - and I don't respect that.

Not that I will boo him or think he should be booed at all, I just don't think any self respecting grown man should single out a child in that manner.

The next day he said all the right things, but that's not what mattered.

All that said, if anyone boo's now they are either ignorant or in some way encouraging racism - that's a reality due to how it's perceived by indigenous players.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Ok, fair enough. But if I may play devils advocate, if I was wronged by someone in that manner, not sure I'd be chasing them for an apology.

I don't buy that, she's a child - if he said she needed to be educated then he should have lead that charge.

 

[wowlace]

I don't buy that, she's a child - if he said she needed to be educated then he should have lead that charge.

Yeah, I can cop a bit of that. But I also can see Adam's POV. Here is an Aboriginal being called an ape on the footy ground from across the fence during indigenous round. Fancy that.

 

[Proper Gander]

Weird first half. Is Frawley reported or not?

 

[wowlace]

Weird first half. Is Frawley reported or not?

Don't think so. I don't like this dangerous tackle free kick. Too subjective in the heat of the moment. Nothing new I guess when it comes to AFL rules lol.

 

[wowlace]

Haha I think the commentary team might be on to something here, Hawks using the concussion sub as a tactic. Pretty dodgy.