Oppo Camp Non-Essendon Thread X

[Its Manbearpig]

Sacking is over the top ill admit that myself unless he was very seriously injured or worse..

If it was a punch some punishment is surely necessary.

If it was just a shove then yeah I wasted a thread.

From what I saw it was a punch..
The media framing Clarkson as a victim doesnt help.

Did Hird punch anyone? Lets not forget the personal attacks he constantly wouldve recieved for more than 50 seconds

 

[Jade]

If you remove the ability to pre-empt then you're already removing a consequence - you're removing the consequence for the dickhead fan. If we all say that this is unacceptable under any circumstance then we open the door for the behaviour of the fan and we demand that they absolutely be able to do that and get away with it and that's... OK?

How does that guy get penalised if Clarkson just lets him push up against him and film that and behave like an out-and-out dickhead? What structure or framework does the guy exist in where a consequence is levied upon him? There isn't, he just gets to keep going and he thinks "Yeah, I'll do that again next time."

Conflict is ugly but natural.

If he's a member he should be sanctioned by the club.

The AFL should also look at him banning him from games in the future.

To be clear, I in NO WAY endorse the behaviour of the fan - he was/is a ****ing idiot.

Clarkson should not have hit him though.

 

[Lord Nicholson]

If he's a member he should be sanctioned by the club.

The AFL should also look at him banning him from games in the future.

To be clear, I in NO WAY endorse the behaviour of the fan - he was/is a ****ing idiot.

Clarkson should not have hit him though.

So the structure for his penalty is based on his financial relationship to his club and/or the AFL? And if those don't exist then it's... nothing? The incident takes place at a hotel, not at an AFL venue... it's not PAFC's problem nor is it the AFL's really... the scenario is generated by Hawthorn and it's their security problem but they're hardly going to be able to mete out punishment on the man after the fact.

If you accost someone or abandon civility you've waived your rights as far as I'm concerned. If you can't hold your booze and can't account for your actions and you don't know better than to antagonise celebrities who have made the rather generous assumption that they can live among "them out there" then you are indefensible and you have left yourself open.

I would not do what Clarkson did, but then I'm an entirely different person. This is quite honestly though a mountain out of a molehill and borne from a heap of inane PC hysteria about the supposed glut of rampant violence that takes place in our society when, taking stock of everything we're probably much better off on that front than we have been in the past, this is an unusual and isolated incident and there is no extenuating circumstance for the drunken fan whatsoever and if we take Clarkson at his word they had been asked THREE times to heck off.

I'd hope that we're not contributing to this molehill-mountain purely as some punitive action for the bullshit we've sustained in the past 2 years.

 

[scottmclaren]

Conflict is ugly but natural.

When you are a violent hot head, yes.

How dare I be heckled and made to feel annoyed and uncomfortable while I'm interstate. *premptive swat and lunge at neck*

 

[Jade]

So the structure for his penalty is based on his financial relationship to his club and/or the AFL? And if those don't exist then it's... nothing?

What else can you do? He hasn't (as far as I can tell) broken any laws (aside from being drunk in a public place).

I'd hope that we're not contributing to this molehill-mountain purely as some punitive action for the bullshit we've sustained in the past 2 years.

Nah, or at least I'm not. I just think Clarkson is a ****ing twat of a bloke that needs to be penalised for his 'Clarko-ness'.

He's punched a bloke. And the defence? I was provoked. Slippery slope there.....

 

[Lord Nicholson]

When you are a violent hot head, yes.

How dare I be heckled and made to feel annoyed and uncomfortable while I'm interstate. *premptive swat and lunge at neck*

You can't choose to lambast Clarkson for underplaying the nature of his attack and then underplay the action of the fan. It goes beyond annoying and making someone feel uncomfortable.

What else can you do?

Precisely.

 

[Jade]

I don't normally agree with Luke Darcy, but did like his comments.

The easiest way to get over this would be for the drunken dick in question to come out and say it was his fault and lets move on.

But he's gone and complained to police. Says a lot about him I reckon.

 

[scottmclaren]

I'd hope that we're not contributing to this molehill-mountain purely as some punitive action for the bullshit we've sustained in the past 2 years.

Drugs (ped & illicit) are a problem in AFL and wider community.

So is violence and assault, I don't think it's a mountain out of a molehill.

 

[scottmclaren]

You can't choose to lambast Clarkson for underplaying the nature of his attack and then underplay the action of the fan. It goes beyond annoying and making someone feel uncomfortable.

Really?? Amazing how precious some of these tough talking thugs are.

 

[Lord Nicholson]

Unprovoked and random acts of violence are a huge problem, I agree. Unmotivated king hits are among the more despicable and cowardly things that a person is capable of. Using verbal/emotional abuse as an excuse to lash out at someone is also beyond the pale.

Going straight up to someone and making body contact and sitting your head on their shoulder when they've already repeatedly told you to remove yourself from their presence though? Bit different.

 

[Jade]

Unprovoked and random acts of violence are a huge problem, I agree. Unmotivated king hits are among the more despicable and cowardly things that a person is capable of. Using verbal/emotional abuse as an excuse to lash out at someone is also beyond the pale.

Going straight up to someone and making body contact and sitting your head on their shoulder when they've already repeatedly told you to remove yourself from their presence though? Bit different.

Agreed.

I think the fan in question is 'more' responsible for this incident than Clarkson.

 

[scottmclaren]

Unprovoked and random acts of violence are a huge problem, I agree. Unmotivated king hits are among the more despicable and cowardly things that a person is capable of. Using verbal/emotional abuse as an excuse to lash out at someone is also beyond the pale.

Going straight up to someone and making body contact and sitting your head on their shoulder when they've already repeatedly told you to remove yourself from their presence though? Bit different.

Arguing that it's OK to punch and grab someone's neck because their head is on your shoulder is an example of societies acceptance of violence.

I don't think Clarkson should be suspended but the general commentary that his actions are natural and that the supporter idiot should count himself lucky are evidence of people's acceptance of violence.

 

[Lord Nicholson]

Arguing that it's OK to punch and grab someone's neck because their head is on your shoulder is an example of societies acceptance of violence.

I don't think Clarkson should be suspended but the general commentary that his actions are natural and that the supporter idiot should count himself lucky are evidence of people's acceptance of violence.

As necessary evil? Yep, probably. And a sad state of affairs it is, but as long as you have people like the fan, you will have violence. Truncate it earlier - don't have the drunken fan and you don't have the violence.

 

[Pevers-Legend]

AFLCA President Brayshaw was on ABC this morning and said he condoned Clarkson's actions.

So there you go folks, if someone annoys you, hit them.

Ah the AFL and their brand. I wonder how this would have gone had it been a coach of a cellar dweller (excluding the AFL children).

For those saying it is ok, you think Hird would receive similar protection? Laughable.

 

[Pevers-Legend]

As necessary evil? Yep, probably. And a sad state of affairs it is, but as long as you have people like the fan, you will have violence. Truncate it earlier - don't have the drunken fan and you don't have the violence.

Don't hit someone and you don't have violence.

 

[Lord Nicholson]

Don't hit someone and you don't have violence.

Which one of the two actions has absolutely not a single shred of motivation?

 

[scottmclaren]

Which one of the two actions has absolutely not a single shred of motivation?

Maybe Clarkson should have given him a photo? This is a very slippery slope.

By all means condem the idiot, but do not dismiss the violence and suggest more violence was warranted.

 

[lysp]

I 100% agree with the fan provoking him, but the reaction was over the top.

He could have stopped walking and even slowly moved his arm out to direct the guy out of the way - instead it was a violent strike to the face.

I've been provoked many times in my life and never once have I ever resorted to hitting anyone - ever. Drunk, sober, doesn't make a difference.

 

[Lord Nicholson]

Maybe Clarkson should have given him a photo? This is a very slippery slope.

Potentially the shrieks of "CARNDAPOWEH" turned him off that approach. Again, he and Fagan repeatedly issued verbal requests. That's the non-violent response that was attempted three times and failed.

By all means condem the idiot, but do not dismiss the violence and suggest more violence was warranted.

I haven't advocated more violence; I've just judged it on what happened. People are jazzing it up to sound like Rodney King.

 

[The Prosecutor]

Yes.

Only because he should've hit him harder.

 

[Nasty Penguin]

Clearly it was roid rage. ASADA MUST GET INVOLVED!!

 

[Childish Gambino]

Only because he should've hit him harder.

I do hope this comment is tongue in cheek.

 

[The Prosecutor]

I do hope this comment is tongue in cheek.

Well, yes, only in so much the hitting harder part.

I think the fan got what he deserved and I don't feel Clarkson should face any repercussions. If you think you can follow someone around screaming at them for 50m like that, be asked three times to cease and desist, be given a gentle push as a final warning and then get right in the guy's ear, essentially resting your head on their shoulder and scream at them to provoke them and then not expect that person to lash out (and not in a king-hit sort of fashion), then I think society has issues.

 

[The Prosecutor]

I agree with the calls that this thread is an embarrassment, too.

If it warrants discussion, have it in the non-Essendon thread. Lest we have pages upon pages of discussion about an opposition coach who was involved in a nothing incident that has absolutely nothing to do with Essendon.

 

[Mercurial89]

Well, yes, only in so much the hitting harder part.

I think the fan got what he deserved and I don't feel Clarkson should face any repercussions. If you think you can follow someone around screaming at them for 50m like that, be asked three times to cease and desist, be given a gentle push as a final warning and then get right in the guy's ear, essentially resting your head on their shoulder and scream at them to provoke them and then not expect that person to lash out (and not in a king-hit sort of fashion), then I think society has issues.

Id expect the person be the bigger man and to continue to walk into their hotel that they were right outside of which would of ended the confrontation then and there. Weird I know.