Toast Our Defence

[119others]

Well it is if you ignore the failed pick 6.

As good as Curtin hopefully will be, it’s going to be as a defender and that’s another high pick.

It’s why it’s even more ridiculous we would throw valuable draft capital at our defence and I’m worried we will do it again with Petty.

yeah no way we should be chasing Petty. I said that as soon as we picked up Curtin last year. Gotta be a gun mid this year and I will be royally pissed if we chase Petty again - both with his crap form this year and the fact he is a FA next year.

We all know pick 6 was a Dud but holistically if you consider within 12 mths we got Hinge, Murray, Worrell for pick 6 and 28 well....thats actually passable knowing not every pick gets nailed but the sum of the parts of these 3 compensates for those picks IMO

Why are you so sure Curtin remains a defender long term? He was playing mid before being drafted and a number of people within the club have talked about his long term potential as a mid

 

[George Kramer]

yeah no way we should be chasing Petty. I said that as soon as we picked up Curtin last year. Gotta be a gun mid this year and I will be royally pissed if we chase Petty again - both with his crap form this year and the fact he is a FA next year.

We all know pick 6 was a Dud but holistically if you consider within 12 mths we got Hinge, Murray, Worrell for pick 6 and 28 well....thats actually passable knowing not every pick gets nailed but the sum of the parts of these 3 compensates for those picks IMO

Why are you so sure Curtin remains a defender long term? He was playing mid before being drafted and a number of people within the club have talked about his long term potential as a mid

Can you imagine our midfield now with Serong, Young or Flanders? Thats why I can’t move on from blowing the McAsey pick and the other picks doesn’t compensate for it at all.

Conversation I’ve had with someone didn’t provide me with a lot of confidence they see him as a mid no matter what minor commentary there has been around it. I take that as deflection at the time as to why we used another high pick on a defender. Also if we thought he could be a mid, why wouldn’t we have given him a run in the midfield during the preseason and at SANFL just to see? Now hopefully he’s in the AFL team for good, he’s going to need to develop into a midfielder at the afl level having no recent exposure to playing as a mid.

 

[NSolis]

It's totally possible that Curtin ends up playing mid, but if that does happen its not going to be any time soon. He was drafted as a defender and will begin his career there, as we saw last night. When it comes to list management discussion he's a defender, for now, and we should take that into account when considering whether we pursue Petty.

 

[119others]

Can you imagine our midfield now with Serong, Young or Flanders? Thats why I can’t move on from blowing the McAsey pick and the other picks doesn’t compensate for it at all.

Conversation I’ve had with someone didn’t provide me with a lot of confidence they see him as a mid no matter what minor commentary there has been around it. I take that as deflection at the time as to why we used another high pick on a defender. Also if we thought he could be a mid, why wouldn’t we have given him a run in the midfield during the preseason and at SANFL just to see? Now hopefully he’s in the AFL team for good, he’s going to need to develop into a midfielder at the afl level having no recent exposure to playing as a mid.

of course I can imagine (and would love) having Serong etc but no team nails every draft pick - including high value ones. Its just the disproportionate focus on the ONE Dud pick in recent years relative to the LARGE amount of quality/astute picks many for bargain basement prices (Hinge, Murray, Keane, Butts all basically FREE, Nank in the PSD and Max and Worrell for unders). Clearly thats just talking defence and not other areas (Soligo, Dawson etc)

Serious question mate - would you be happy with the following result. In an alternative universe if we took Murray with pick 6, Worrell at 28 and Hinge for free over a 12 mth type period? Wouldn't you sit back and say that a fair to good result? Isn't that a more balanced way to review things? Look at the overall drafting rather than the clear one DUD pick? IMO it is.

PS can you disclose who this person is or at least if its a key club list decision maker (Hamish, Reid) or coach type level?

 

[George Kramer]

of course I can imagine (and would love) having Serong etc but no team nails every draft pick - including high value ones. Its just the disproportionate focus on the ONE Dud pick in recent years relative to the LARGE amount of quality/astute picks many for bargain basement prices (Hinge, Murray, Keane, Butts all basically FREE, Nank in the PSD and Max and Worrell for unders). Clearly thats just talking defence and not other areas (Soligo, Dawson etc)

Serious question mate - would you be happy with the following result. In an alternative universe if we took Murray with pick 6, Worrell at 28 and Hinge for free over a 12 mth type period? Wouldn't you sit back and say that a fair to good result? Isn't that a more balanced way to review things? Look at the overall drafting rather than the clear one DUD pick? IMO it is.

PS can you disclose who this person is or at least if its a key club list decision maker (Hamish, Reid) or coach type level?

One dud pick? Jones, McHenry.

No it’s not, we blew pick 6.

Not saying who but someone at a level that would know

 

[119others]

One dud pick? Jones, McHenry.

No it’s not, we blew pick 6.

Not saying who but someone at a level that would know

Lets agree to not start another 10 year review of Hamish here but my initial point was he has done a great job building an 'awesome' (your words) defence IMO with very very little (but including a pick 6). Not sure how anyone can actually argue with that.

Not including Curtin yet because his future role is unclear but when skip Dawson is talking him up as a potential mid in a couple of years I am not discounting it. Or he could become the next best KPP player in the league with his exceptional traits. Either way, not sure ANY crows fan is unhappy getting a guy touted as a potential top 2 pick (Angry Alistair met with him the day before the ND) and Weagles offering up a likely top 2-3 pick this year to obtain him last year

 

[Crows I Am]

Isn't this thread a bit over the top considering they had alot more shots on goal? And we kicked straight....

The reason they were so inaccurate was because our defence played so well and did not give them any easy shots on goal. Most of their shots were from long range or on tight angles and they were always under pressure. We only gave up a couple of easy shots close to goal.

Our young defenders seem to have built a really good bond and work so well together. The fact that they are all so young and are playing so well is such a good sign. Very exciting for the next 5-10 years.

 

[Bob Neil]

Butts was excellent today, needs to keep it up. Think we’re one quick flanker short but otherwise couldn’t ask for much more

Yep I’d like to see a genuine quick small defender in the mix but otherwise it’s definitely a promising group and Max is a future captain in the making!

 

[DroppingTheBall]

I have been especially pleased with Josh Worrell’s improvement this year. He now looks like a future star on the rise.

 

[MrBarry]

agree mate awesome talent - very much on the same page - and many years of excitement to come.

and how do you rate the way we acquired such an awesome young backline?

Keane - FREE

Max - pick 17

Worrell - pick 28 (was reportedly a first round prospect but attitude/motivation saw him drop. Lucky we don't mind chasing some bad boys or guys that may be somewhat immature at their age - like Josh had a DUI in first 18 mths - and we looked at the big picture with Josh (plus Oliver, Martin chases in recent yrs)

Hinge - FREE

Nank - PSD (strategically after intel Dons were going to take him before us in the rookie draft)

Butts - pick 39 rookie draft

Murray - FREE

A grand total of a late first rounder, a mid/late second rounder and a rookie pick.

Is it one of the greatest all time master classes in drafting an entire backline for basically nothing?

This just highlights how dumb is it trying to draft at the top end with needs rather than talent. Mcasey....

 

[adelaidecrows]

40%, such an exaggeration I could go the other way and claim they kept their scores down to nearly 30%

I never said it was bad, im saying it wasn't the best. I also include our midfield in the defence, its not just the 6 guys lumped back there. Each really worked well to prevent their main forwards from scoring. I'm not arguing that in the slightest. I've always thought our defence is good on its own.

Where our team defence faulted was the midfield.

JHF went unwatched half the time throughout crucial moments of the last quarter which almost cost us as they got the score within 14 points. It was really only through fatigue we ran away from them in the last 10 minutes of the game. I've always said bad kicking is bad football so they were just as much to blame for their loss as we won it. Good for us.

The worrying key stats we lost
Inside 50s 47 to 57
Efficiency inside 50 36% to 40%
Centre clearances 9 to 11
Stoppage clearances 24 to 32
Contested possession 132 to 146

We are 3-5 for a reason. We lose these stats nearly every week. Port just didn't make us pay. But my apologies to the OP, I argued team defence rather than the 6 guys down back.

 

[rabidcrow]

Isn't this thread a bit over the top considering they had alot more shots on goal? And we kicked straight....

5 rushed behinds. Probably 4 they should have kicked - from 57 inside 50’s

They held up remarkably well - and 5 of them haven’t hit 30 games


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[Rory Walkerfield]

Try Murray forward? Him playing deep
and crashing packs creating opportunities for Rankine & Rachele

We actually have the luxury given the trajectory of others where we could make him a swing man.

We really don’t need to waste any draft capital on Petty.

 

[Brasher]

The Crows have always been enamored by the Himmelburg type (the GWS One).

I can see them having eyes on Curtin developing into that type.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

I have been especially pleased with Josh Worrell’s improvement this year. He now looks like a future star on the rise.

I hate to harp on but I will. Those of us that regularly watch the sanfl were calling for Worrell to play well before his 1 solitary game. In my mind Woz should be over 50 games now. He’s definitely 25 games behind where his sanfl form warranted him being.

Nank a similar story - perhaps didn’t have to wait quite as long as Woz for a regular gig but still should have been a lock way earlier.

The coaches really struggle to let go of their favourites at the expense of a few guys who have real talent.

 

[cmndstab]

Taking Michalanney out, that is whats called built on a budget and it shows if you are savvy, you can fill these spots later in the draft or via other means

Even with Michalanney, we didn't actually give a first round pick for him. We gave up a couple of picks out in the 30s and 40s. Absolute bargain.

In the process we were able to trade our better picks into 2023 where they formed part of our effort to trade up for Curtin.

 

[budget]

Kicking for goal?

You have to mark it before you kick it!


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[Bovo]

We’ve definitely had worse kicks over the years

Nick Gill bad?

 

[hugecannon]

Nick Gill bad?

He was definitely a unique talent!!!

 

[Mattrox]

One dud pick? Jones, McHenry.

No it’s not, we blew pick 6.

Not saying who but someone at a level that would know

Do a list of draftees under Pyke, including 2019 draft.... Then a list 2020 onward.

I have a feeling the type of player Pyke demanded as a priority meant we valued certain attributes rather than best overall talent at the available pick.

 

[Sanders]

Do a list of draftees under Pyke, including 2019 draft.... Then a list 2020 onward.

I have a feeling the type of player Pyke demanded as a priority meant we valued certain attributes rather than best overall talent at the available pick.

We have only ever drafted with a best available player philosophy

 

[skam85]

We have only ever drafted with a best available player philosophy

And most of the time pick the exact opposite of that

 

[jackster83]

Do a list of draftees under Pyke, including 2019 draft.... Then a list 2020 onward.

I have a feeling the type of player Pyke demanded as a priority meant we valued certain attributes rather than best overall talent at the available pick.

2020 isn't looking amazing right now either.

 

[NSolis]

2020 isn't looking amazing right now either.

I'm happy with Thilthorpe, think he will be a star. Pedlar is a tough one to evaluate, obviously an incredible talent but it may be that he never quite gets there, and there were good players after him we missed, so that's probably the downside of 2020 at this point as a draft year.

For Cook and Berry I don't think it's too bad, lots of misses around that point in that particular draft year even if they don't quite make it. Nobody obvious we should have picked instead.

 

[Mattrox]

2020 isn't looking amazing right now either.

A bit harsh to blame injury issues now on a recruiting team.