Peter Dutton - How Long?

[DaBarz]

Sorry to say, but I think the old saying about arguing with idiots may apply to you friend.

YOU were the one who chose ignore the article I took the time to cut and paste into here - for you, not me pal.

You think that I should engage with you on a post that the most input you’ve had was to press “copy and paste” ?

 

[Chief]

You think that I should engage with you on a post that the most input you’ve had was to press “copy and paste” ?

Would you prefer he typed it out manually??

 

[Mofra]

You don’t understand the word “if”?

Weasel words don't excuse outright fabrications.

 

[Sun Ra]

You think that I should engage with you on a post that the most input you’ve had was to press “copy and paste” ?

Peter Dutton - How Long?

By your logic, if there was a federal election held tomorrow the Libs would lose every seat. Do you need a refresher on how things work? Next we will hear about how because the primary is down the election was invalid or something

www.bigfooty.com

 

[DaBarz]

Would you prefer he typed it out manually??

If I want to read Savvas opinion I’ll log into SMH

I thought you weren’t permitted to post entire articles ?

No illegal content; respect copyright owners.

• Articles from other sites should be limited to a relevant paragraph or two and a link to the source.

Interesting.

 

[Chief]

MUST BE BANNED!

 

[DaBarz]

Weasel words don't excuse outright fabrications.

Not a weasel word. Part of my post which clearly indicates a POSSIBLE scenario.
If -IF - you struggle with that it’s not my problem.

Fabrications like the “trillion dollar debt”?
That sort of fabrication ?

 

[DaBarz]

MUST BE BANNED!

You wrote the rule not me

 

[Chief]

You wrote the rule not me

You are welcome to report the post.

 

[DaBarz]

You are welcome to report the post.

Yeah
Rite

Plagiarism and copyright breaches are your problem not mine

 

[geoffjennings79]

You're all being brought down to his level, and after a few pages, his inability to comprehend several basic explanations for the Aston v Fadden results is getting tiresome.

Can we all get back to the subject of the thread- laughing at the fact Dutton is, and will likely remain for some time, the leader of the nominal federal opposition?

 

[peetoo]

That's a very interesting post. Being, up until recently, a resident in that electorate it is also fair to say that the old money demographic has changed somewhat in the last 20 years. There are a lot of students and upwardly mobile younger families/couples in and around Hawthorn/Auburn these days and they are diluting what was once a blue heartland.

Or those higher in ‘society’ are less socially conservative than working class areas? I don’t buy the ‘working class upwardly mobile moving in’ is all the story (even though I probably fit the description myself)- the republic debate was 2000.

Isn’t this the steer behind the teals rise?

Labor socially conservative economically liberal
Coalition socially conservative economically conservative
Teals socially liberal economically conservtive
Green socially liberal economically liberal

And I reckon younger voters are more confused than ever where they sit, given more real choices.

And of course labor voters like me got into the teals tactically to cause maximum discomfort for the coalition. Whether we continue with a sitting teal member is another matter

 

[DaBarz]

You're all being brought down to his level, and after a few pages, his inability to comprehend several basic explanations for the Aston v Fadden results is getting tiresome.

Can we all get back to the subject of the thread- laughing at the fact Dutton is, and will likely remain for some time, the leader of the nominal federal opposition?

Responded and reacted to 2 replies that were thoughtful and cogent in their construction of the argument.

Are you hurt your banal replies were ignored ?
I’m happy to discuss
I too tire of decade old gifs and 29 year old memes

 

[Sun Ra]

Or those higher in ‘society’ are less socially conservative than working class areas? I don’t buy the ‘working class upwardly mobile moving in’ is all the story (even though I probably fit the description myself)- the republic debate was 2000.

Higher density housing has no doubt made it more affordable to live there - be it in an apartment rather than a house.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Maybe you should read this ..... from The Age.

As teal seats harden against Liberals, Dutton markets himself as Prime Minister for Queensland​

By Niki Savva​

July 20, 2023 — 5.00am

If every seat was like Fadden, Peter Dutton would be Australia’s prime minister in waiting today.

At Saturday’s byelection, the Liberal primary vote went up, the Greens vote fell spectacularly and none of it went to Labor which suffered a small drop in its vote. The result proved Queensland remains a black hole for Labor and should spike any complacency inside the Albanese government.

The Prime Minister for Queensland.CREDIT: JOHN SHAKESPEARE

Unfortunately for Liberals elated after holding a seat they were never going to lose, Fadden is a long way geographically and in many other ways from the seats Dutton needs to win if he is ever to get back into government.

In the heartland seats lost in 2022, independent MPs stepping up their campaigns for the referendum have found – apart from unsurprisingly strong support for the Voice– a hardening of sentiment against the Liberals. Not just over the referendum but also the pervasive negativity, the difficulty connecting with women and the failure to comprehend that robo-debt was tied to integrity – one of the three issues central to the success of the teals.

Three independent MPs I spoke to – Kate Chaney in Curtin, Helen Haines in Indi and Monique Ryan in Kooyong – all reported similar feedback.

Yet, the response from the Liberal hard right to the threat of a schism which 2022 portended has been a redoubling of efforts to purge moderates from the party by stripping them of their pre-selections.

According to senior Liberals, a potential challenger had been lined up against Julian Leeser in Berowra, as punishment for daring to back the Voice. That apparently collapsed after an eligibility issue emerged, however insiders say both deputy leader Sussan Ley in Farrer and Melissa McIntosh in Lindsay, are almost certain to lose to conservative challengers.

Right-wing powerbroker Alex Dore has even discussed running Katherine Deves again in Warringah. Seriously.

Dutton’s demand for early pre-selections in NSW seats has been blamed for firing up the factional tensions. Through an intermediary, the NSW division will ask him to hold off on the teal seats, but there was little confidence he would agree. Dutton is seldom heard boasting about the beauteous broad church that is the Liberal Party.

He has shrugged off warnings from the NSW president, former MP Jason Falinski, that conducting all preselections before the redistribution will not attract the best candidates, or could mean some will have to be redone later if say Bradfield, held by frontbencher Paul Fletcher, is abolished.

Dutton has paraded his utter ruthlessness since he lost Aston. In the fight for Fadden no dollar was spared, no line went uncrossed.

He delivered cursory apologies on robo-debt while justifying tough action against welfare recipients because hardworking taxpayers wanted overpayments to be repaid. Yes, they do. But they don’t want governments running illegal operations which demonise then hound people – in some cases to their death – for money they do not owe, lie to defend the scheme or cover up, then escape penalties.

He skated over alleged criminal behaviour during the Coalition’s time to accuse the government of politicising the issue. He smeared two highly respected senior public servants, Steven Kennedy and Jenny Wilkinson, for no good reason other than to politicise the government’s announcement that Michele Bullock would replace Philip Lowe as Reserve Bank Governor.

He warned Bunnings to stop donating to the Yes campaign and instead use the money to lower prices. Less than 24 hours later a racist, sexist, McCarthyist cartoon appeared featuring the head of Bunnings, Michael Chaney, with his daughter, Kate, sitting on his lap and Yes campaigner Thomas Mayo dancing for a fistful of dollars wearing a T-shirt adorned by a hammer and sickle. All designed to shame or bully them into backing off. Coincidence? Methinks not. Disgraceful? Undeniably.

Mayo says he has never been a member of the communist party as alleged by No campaigners. Anyways, better a communist than a racist I reckon.
Soon after, Kate Chaney held a public meeting with Mayo, the former chief justice of the High Court Robert French, and former Australian of the year Fiona Stanley, which attracted more than 600 people – more than any other gathering she has organised.

Chaney says she hopes the cartoon, which Warren Mundine thought was funny, marked a turning point and the No campaign now realises that such tactics don’t resonate with mainstream Australians.

Haines will host a sold-out meeting in Wodonga on July 25. Around 400 people have booked to hear Linda Burney and Dean Parkin argue for Yes.

“Dutton has picked the wrong fight to have if he is seeking to win back the independent seats,” Haines says. She warns if he continues as he has, voters in those seats will only get more “browned off”.

Ryan, with more than 200 volunteers – up from 12 six weeks ago – has doorknocked more than 6000 homes. She says they are on track to knock on every door in Kooyong well before the referendum, then will move into Liberal-held seats Menzies and Deakin.

Having gone out with her teams five times, Ryan reports increasing impatience with the Liberals’ ongoing negativity, disappointment and shame over robo-debt, concern about cost of living but still no real anger directed at Prime Minister Anthony Albanese. Data collated from 2500 of the doors knocked shows 45.1 per cent strong support for the voice, 13.4 per cent simply supporting, 30.6 per cent neutral or unsure, 5.9 per cent opposing, and 5.4 per cent strongly opposing.

Obviously, this does not tell us what Australians elsewhere are thinking or if the referendum will succeed. It does show if Dutton continues to market himself as Prime Minister for Queensland chances of regaining the teal seats are slim to nothing. Unless Liberal candidates disconnect from their party and their leader.

Which poses an exquisitely delicate dilemma for Josh Frydenberg if – still a big if – he seeks to reclaim Kooyong in 2025. To have any chance of winning, Frydenberg would not only have to run against Monique Ryan, but Dutton too.

Wow. Putting the boot in. And deservedly.

This par was a standout:

“He delivered cursory apologies on robo-debt while justifying tough action against welfare recipients because hardworking taxpayers wanted overpayments to be repaid. Yes, they do. But they don’t want governments running illegal operations which demonise then hound people – in some cases to their death – for money they do not owe, lie to defend the scheme or cover up, then escape penalties.“

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Or those higher in ‘society’ are less socially conservative than working class areas? I don’t buy the ‘working class upwardly mobile moving in’ is all the story (even though I probably fit the description myself)- the republic debate was 2000.

Isn’t this the steer behind the teals rise?

Labor socially conservative economically liberal
Coalition socially conservative economically conservative
Teals socially liberal economically conservtive
Green socially liberal economically liberal

And I reckon younger voters are more confused than ever where they sit, given more real choices.

And of course labor voters like me got into the teals tactically to cause maximum discomfort for the coalition. Whether we continue with a sitting teal member is another matter

No, it’s certainly not all the story. But it’s part of the story.

I am also a traditional Labor voter but I manned a booth to help out Monique Ryan…it was Frydenberg out at all costs at the last election. I am not sure it would have been so a decade ago.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

instead of just saying fake news how about deconstructing the argument made by Savva, which is actually pretty well researched, reasoned & argued?

Writing off something purely because of its source rather than what it says is intellectually lazy.

The boards here are populated by some pretty good minds and if engage in good faith you can get a good discussion going.

I’m on a bit of a mission to try & get good discussion going based on proper logic & respectful discourse.

Like if someone posts a Bolt article it’s easy to take it apart because he breaks all the formal rules of logic constantly resorting to hyperbole, straw man & slippery slope arguments which I find distressingly facile & an affront to intelligent discussion which, I believe we desperately need in these times.

Savva by contrast references first hand sources & lays out her arguments well, building a case. We get nowhere simply saying fake news & throwing out the baby with the bath water.

You don’t have to agree with it but don’t just ignore it, argue with it properly.

Great post. All should read.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Weasel words don't excuse outright fabrications.

They do if you stick "If"in front of them

 

[geoffjennings79]

Tbh what's concerning me most in this and the Andrews thread is that I'm consistently in agreeance with (some) Hawthorn, Sydney and GEELONG posters!

Obviously mellowing in my old age.

 

[DaBarz]

They do if you stick "If"in front of them

You just used the word if

 

[Sun Ra]

You just used the word if

 

[QuietB]

instead of just saying fake news how about deconstructing the argument made by Savva, which is actually pretty well researched, reasoned & argued?

Writing off something purely because of its source rather than what it says is intellectually lazy.

The boards here are populated by some pretty good minds and if engage in good faith you can get a good discussion going.

I’m on a bit of a mission to try & get good discussion going based on proper logic & respectful discourse.

Like if someone posts a Bolt article it’s easy to take it apart because he breaks all the formal rules of logic constantly resorting to hyperbole, straw man & slippery slope arguments which I find distressingly facile & an affront to intelligent discussion which, I believe we desperately need in these times.

Savva by contrast references first hand sources & lays out her arguments well, building a case. We get nowhere simply saying fake news & throwing out the baby with the bath water.

You don’t have to agree with it but don’t just ignore it, argue with it properly.

Also must be pointed out that there has been a significant shift when conservatives cannot even acknowledge the opinion of a former senior advisor to John Howard.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Tbh what's concerning me most in this and the Andrews thread is that I'm consistently in agreeance with (some) Hawthorn, Sydney and GEELONG posters!

Obviously mellowing in my old age.

In agreement with Geelong supporters?

 

[Mofra]

Not a weasel word. Part of my post which clearly indicates a POSSIBLE scenario.
If -IF - you struggle with that it’s not my problem.

Fabrications like the “trillion dollar debt”?
That sort of fabrication ?

If you are in fact advocating for genocide I think that's very problematic, but you'd probably get a sympathetic ear from some of the No campaign.

 

[peetoo]

Higher density housing has no doubt made it more affordable to live there - be it in an apartment rather than a house.

Lots of apartments around Hawthorn are at least 50 years

No, it’s certainly not all the story. But it’s part of the story.

I am also a traditional Labor voter but I manned a booth to help out Monique Ryan…it was Frydenberg out at all costs at the last election. I am not sure it would have been so a decade ago.

This line started when I mentioned the republic vote….two decades ago