Pick One Player from another club

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The Smoking Gun said:
Nik Cox, by the length of the the Flemington Straight. Given our lack of developing KPPs, a potential 10yr+, 200cm player you can use anywhere, that's strong overhead, can run like the wind and kicks like a mule is very, very high on my bucket list.

Didoro could start his own cartel with what you'd have to pay in drug money to get him, but in this case it might almost be worth it.
Click to expand...
I don't get the allure. Could you explain what he brings a) as a midfielder that you couldn't get but better from a first round pick selected as a midfielder, b) what he brings as a defender - small or large - that you couldn't get from either picking a tall or a small, or c) what he provides as a forward that set him ahead of taking a Weideman, McKay, King, etc type of player?

I genuinely do not understand. Positional flexibility is nice, but he can't defend a stronger opponent (and, because his agility/speed combination are part of his draw, all KPF's are going to be stronger than he is) he requires leads to get off the chain up forward, and he's not a better winger than LOB is.
 
OIP.bhjFVXPfJJdjAOusyKbg8wHaEL


This guy would turn our midfield from formidable to unstoppable.
 

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For excitement, Toby Greene
For brilliance, Isaac Heeney
For needs, Sam Taylor.

My 1 is Sam Taylor. Right age profile, and fits needs.
 
Gethelred said:
I don't get the allure. Could you explain what he brings a) as a midfielder that you couldn't get but better from a first round pick selected as a midfielder, b) what he brings as a defender - small or large - that you couldn't get from either picking a tall or a small, or c) what he provides as a forward that set him ahead of taking a Weideman, McKay, King, etc type of player?

I genuinely do not understand. Positional flexibility is nice, but he can't defend a stronger opponent (and, because his agility/speed combination are part of his draw, all KPF's are going to be stronger than he is) he requires leads to get off the chain up forward, and he's not a better winger than LOB is.
Click to expand...



My issue with a lot of the commentary is that too many people base opinions on the "now" rather than the "finished product". In the 2017 draft a number of us were very vocal about our preference of Cerra over Dow, but unfortunately it took most here 3-4 year to wake up as to why. People are very quick to judge a 1st year player, but McKay didn't become a fixture in our side until his fourth year and nor was Charlie Curnow's 1st year as good as Cox's. The videos I've included show what he can do as KPF, KPD and on a wing as a junior and how that skillset has transferred/translated to his 1st year at AFL level.

As a KPD he has to potential to be Ross Glendinning type where he intercepts or spoils and gathers then takes off down the ground with a couple of bounces and bombs the goal himself or hits up a leading target. As a KPF I see him more like a Dunstall at this stage where he leads up at the ball-carrier....and with his height and speed why wouldn't you. Kicking off either side is very solid. While he's already shown he can take a contested mark at AFL level, he'll only become better as he fills out. With regards to comparisons to Weideman, McKay or Max King, how many goals did they kick in their first year as opposed to Cox.....and Cox did it from the wing. To say he's not a better winger than LOB is just anti-bomber bias (which I get) coming to the fore. After 4 years in the AFL system LOB hasn't shown anything like Cox has demonstrated on a wing. Let's get real here.

Weideman, McKay and the King brothers are the wrong types to compare him to. Provided his career isn't cut short by injury or going off the rails, then you're talking about somewhere between Goodes and Tomlinson (where Tomlinson is the floor). Goodes is the best player I've ever seen bar none. He's the only player I've ever seen that could literally be deployed in any position on the ground and then perform that role with aplomb. Even if Cox can only achieve half of what Goodes managed in his career then he'll be a gun.


 
The Smoking Gun said:



My issue with a lot of the commentary is that too many people base opinions on the "now" rather than the "finished product". In the 2017 draft a number of us were very vocal about our preference of Cerra over Dow, but unfortunately it took most here 3-4 year to wake up as to why. People are very quick to judge a 1st year player, but McKay didn't become a fixture in our side until his fourth year and nor was Charlie Curnow's 1st year as good as Cox's. The videos I've included show what he can do as KPF, KPD and on a wing as a junior and how that skillset has transferred/translated to his 1st year at AFL level.

As a KPD he has to potential to be Ross Glendinning type where he intercepts or spoils and gathers then takes off down the ground with a couple of bounces and bombs the goal himself or hits up a leading target. As a KPF I see him more like a Dunstall at this stage where he leads up at the ball-carrier....and with his height and speed why wouldn't you. Kicking off either side is very solid. While he's already shown he can take a contested mark at AFL level, he'll only become better as he fills out. With regards to comparisons to Weideman, McKay or Max King, how many goals did they kick in their first year as opposed to Cox.....and Cox did it from the wing. To say he's not a better winger than LOB is just anti-bomber bias (which I get) coming to the fore. After 4 years in the AFL system LOB hasn't shown anything like Cox has demonstrated on a wing. Let's get real here.

Weideman, McKay and the King brothers are the wrong types to compare him to. Provided his career isn't cut short by injury or going off the rails, then you're talking about somewhere between Goodes and Tomlinson (where Tomlinson is the floor). Goodes is the best player I've ever seen bar none. He's the only player I've ever seen that could literally be deployed in any position on the ground and then perform that role with aplomb. Even if Cox can only achieve half of what Goodes managed in his career then he'll be a gun.


Click to expand...


His skillset is unique and he could be an incredible player (anywhere on the field).

BUT, I think the argument boils down to this.

Would you rather have 3 x Nik Cox or have McKay, Weitering and Walsh?

Odds are that Cox won't be as good a forward as McKay, he won't be as good a backman as Weitering nor a mid as good as Walsh. Does the fact that he could be 80-90% as good as ALL three of them make him the best overall player? Or does it just mean he's 80-90% as good as the others?

Was Kouta (or Goodes) a better player than Diesel, Judd, Sticks or SOS? I don't know the answer, but IMO that is the key question at play.
 
The Smoking Gun said:



My issue with a lot of the commentary is that too many people base opinions on the "now" rather than the "finished product". In the 2017 draft a number of us were very vocal about our preference of Cerra over Dow, but unfortunately it took most here 3-4 year to wake up as to why. People are very quick to judge a 1st year player, but McKay didn't become a fixture in our side until his fourth year and nor was Charlie Curnow's 1st year as good as Cox's. The videos I've included show what he can do as KPF, KPD and on a wing as a junior and how that skillset has transferred/translated to his 1st year at AFL level.

As a KPD he has to potential to be Ross Glendinning type where he intercepts or spoils and gathers then takes off down the ground with a couple of bounces and bombs the goal himself or hits up a leading target. As a KPF I see him more like a Dunstall at this stage where he leads up at the ball-carrier....and with his height and speed why wouldn't you. Kicking off either side is very solid. While he's already shown he can take a contested mark at AFL level, he'll only become better as he fills out. With regards to comparisons to Weideman, McKay or Max King, how many goals did they kick in their first year as opposed to Cox.....and Cox did it from the wing. To say he's not a better winger than LOB is just anti-bomber bias (which I get) coming to the fore. After 4 years in the AFL system LOB hasn't shown anything like Cox has demonstrated on a wing. Let's get real here.

Weideman, McKay and the King brothers are the wrong types to compare him to. Provided his career isn't cut short by injury or going off the rails, then you're talking about somewhere between Goodes and Tomlinson (where Tomlinson is the floor). Goodes is the best player I've ever seen bar none. He's the only player I've ever seen that could literally be deployed in any position on the ground and then perform that role with aplomb. Even if Cox can only achieve half of what Goodes managed in his career then he'll be a gun.
Click to expand...

This is LOB vs Cox at same age:

Nikolas Cox and Lochie O'Brien AFL Stats Comparison

Nikolas Cox and Lochie O'Brien AFL Stats Comparison.
www.footywire.com
This is LOB vs Cox this season:

Nikolas Cox and Lochie O'Brien AFL Stats Comparison

Nikolas Cox and Lochie O'Brien AFL Stats Comparison.
www.footywire.com
If Cox is a better winger right now, I'll go he.

This is Charlie Curnow vs Nick Cox at same age:

Nikolas Cox and Charlie Curnow AFL Stats Comparison

Nikolas Cox and Charlie Curnow AFL Stats Comparison.
www.footywire.com
So, I don't agree with you that Cox's first season was superior to Curnow's. There's more than stats certainly, but that's rather comprehensively better across the board.

I accept that a lot of people look at a player and judge them as an unfinished product, and he has a distance to go before he's anywhere near developed. My question has as much to do with how you would develop him; what position, what role?

You cannot develop a player to be all things, unless you're leaving their best footy to be played the other side of 26. Only then can you really come into your own as an AFL capable utility; only then do you have the levels of gameplay and game understanding coupled with the strength/endurance combination, and only if you're durable enough to have spent enough time on the park to have played on all lines over the course. It takes times to get to that level of understanding within a single role, and you're requiring him to learn all of them.

I can see him as a Fritsch/Gunston lead up tall at AFL level. That I can see him doing. But as a KPD you're losing the agility and acceleration - which are very good at 200cm, but are average overall - in order to let him play on bigger forwards, and as a wing you're not getting from him what you'd get from Langdon, prime Gaff. He's not a natural ball magnet, he's not always in the right spots, and you cannot compensate for that just by being 200cm.

I've said it before: I don't like hybrid players so in that way I'm a bit biased against him. If you've got a specialist, why would you ever go the hybrid instead?

Thanks for your thoughts, though. Might not sound like it, but I appreciate the alternative view.
 
Gethelred said:
This is LOB vs Cox at same age:

Nikolas Cox and Lochie O'Brien AFL Stats Comparison

Nikolas Cox and Lochie O'Brien AFL Stats Comparison.
www.footywire.com
This is LOB vs Cox this season:

Nikolas Cox and Lochie O'Brien AFL Stats Comparison

Nikolas Cox and Lochie O'Brien AFL Stats Comparison.
www.footywire.com
If Cox is a better winger right now, I'll go he.

This is Charlie Curnow vs Nick Cox at same age:

Nikolas Cox and Charlie Curnow AFL Stats Comparison

Nikolas Cox and Charlie Curnow AFL Stats Comparison.
www.footywire.com
So, I don't agree with you that Cox's first season was superior to Curnow's. There's more than stats certainly, but that's rather comprehensively better across the board.

I accept that a lot of people look at a player and judge them as an unfinished product, and he has a distance to go before he's anywhere near developed. My question has as much to do with how you would develop him; what position, what role?

You cannot develop a player to be all things, unless you're leaving their best footy to be played the other side of 26. Only then can you really come into your own as an AFL capable utility; only then do you have the levels of gameplay and game understanding coupled with the strength/endurance combination, and only if you're durable enough to have spent enough time on the park to have played on all lines over the course. It takes times to get to that level of understanding within a single role, and you're requiring him to learn all of them.

I can see him as a Fritsch/Gunston lead up tall at AFL level. That I can see him doing. But as a KPD you're losing the agility and acceleration - which are very good at 200cm, but are average overall - in order to let him play on bigger forwards, and as a wing you're not getting from him what you'd get from Langdon, prime Gaff. He's not a natural ball magnet, he's not always in the right spots, and you cannot compensate for that just by being 200cm.

I've said it before: I don't like hybrid players so in that way I'm a bit biased against him. If you've got a specialist, why would you ever go the hybrid instead?

Thanks for your thoughts, though. Might not sound like it, but I appreciate the alternative view.
Click to expand...
So what happened to Nik Cox's 2021 stats Gethelred???
 
The Smoking Gun said:
So what happened to Nik Cox's 2021 stats Gethelred???
Click to expand...
LOB vs Nik Cox, at age 19 (which is Cox's 2021)

Nikolas Cox and Lochie O'Brien AFL Stats Comparison

Nikolas Cox and Lochie O'Brien AFL Stats Comparison.
www.footywire.com
Charlie vs Cox, at age 19

Nikolas Cox and Charlie Curnow AFL Stats Comparison

Nikolas Cox and Charlie Curnow AFL Stats Comparison.
www.footywire.com

Comparable but superior (if only marginally) to LOB, more possessions and marks but less inside 50's, less goal assists and goals per game than Charlie.
 
Clearly the right answer is Luke Jackson
 

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Prior to this year I would have given my left leg for Jack Steele. But now with an all be it not quite as good Hewitt would be hard to go past the general consensus of Darcy Moore
 
The Smoking Gun said:



My issue with a lot of the commentary is that too many people base opinions on the "now" rather than the "finished product". In the 2017 draft a number of us were very vocal about our preference of Cerra over Dow, but unfortunately it took most here 3-4 year to wake up as to why. People are very quick to judge a 1st year player, but McKay didn't become a fixture in our side until his fourth year and nor was Charlie Curnow's 1st year as good as Cox's. The videos I've included show what he can do as KPF, KPD and on a wing as a junior and how that skillset has transferred/translated to his 1st year at AFL level.

As a KPD he has to potential to be Ross Glendinning type where he intercepts or spoils and gathers then takes off down the ground with a couple of bounces and bombs the goal himself or hits up a leading target. As a KPF I see him more like a Dunstall at this stage where he leads up at the ball-carrier....and with his height and speed why wouldn't you. Kicking off either side is very solid. While he's already shown he can take a contested mark at AFL level, he'll only become better as he fills out. With regards to comparisons to Weideman, McKay or Max King, how many goals did they kick in their first year as opposed to Cox.....and Cox did it from the wing. To say he's not a better winger than LOB is just anti-bomber bias (which I get) coming to the fore. After 4 years in the AFL system LOB hasn't shown anything like Cox has demonstrated on a wing. Let's get real here.

Weideman, McKay and the King brothers are the wrong types to compare him to. Provided his career isn't cut short by injury or going off the rails, then you're talking about somewhere between Goodes and Tomlinson (where Tomlinson is the floor). Goodes is the best player I've ever seen bar none. He's the only player I've ever seen that could literally be deployed in any position on the ground and then perform that role with aplomb. Even if Cox can only achieve half of what Goodes managed in his career then he'll be a gun.


Click to expand...

lot of unnecessary bluster defending a player, in a light-hearted thread about a hypothetical preference that will never come about........
 
Wasn’t Cox dropped at the end of last year? It was a bloody exciting first season for the type of player he is but atm he is a borderline AFL player who has some incredible traits. No way would I punt completely on potential if I could choose anyone in the league.
 
Shai Bolton for me.

We now have a strong group of tough or developing inside mids (Cripps, Kennedy, Hewett, Cerra, Dow, Stocker). Bolton would complement this group beautifully and is a genuine threat both in the air and on the ground when he goes forward.
 
I LOVE Greene, Heeney and Bolton BUT Jackson is going to give you 12 years of absolute ruck dominance, hard as and can go forward. Absolute gun. Given our needs. Would be a good tag team with TDK for a very long time.
 
There Can Be Only One Highlander GIF
I Want More GIF


Sam Taylor
Jordan Ridley
Hugh McCluggage
Ed Langdon
Christian Petracca
Isaac Heeney
Toby Greene
Shai Bolton
Sean Darcy
Luke Jackson

That'll do me.
 
Revenant1965 said:
For excitement, Toby Greene
For brilliance, Isaac Heeney
For needs, Sam Taylor.

My 1 is Sam Taylor. Right age profile, and fits needs.
Click to expand...
I've been saying Sam Taylor from wayback and I think he's gettable for that matter... He's done superbly well in big games like finals against really strong opposition/ Tall KPF/s
 
jezzatigerbrent said:
I've been saying Sam Taylor from wayback and I think he's gettable for that matter... He's done superbly well in big games like finals against really strong opposition/ Tall KPF/s
Click to expand...
Serious question: is he truly gettable, and if so, what would you have to give to get him?

Silly question: would we trade all of Marchbank, Gov, Dow and OMac for enough picks to package up to get him?
 
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