Analysis Pluck the Hawks...

[Banker]

Playing them in a prelim in Perth sounds like a pretty damned good plan B to me.

You act like a loss means that can't reach a GF, they will make a prelim at the very least.

 

[chinggis77]

Funny how the Hawks had 20 more tackles.

Looks like tackling pressure doesn't win games.

I think it is apparent for a while now that pressure acts that don´t involve tackling but that lead to turnovers can be much more effective than tackling/committing to a tackle which can lead to a turnover less often and more often results in ball ups or the player raising their arms or getting a quick handball away. We were on the losing end of the tackle count a lot in our first 10 games.

 

[Banker]

I think it is apparent for a while now that pressure acts that don´t involve tackling but that lead to turnovers can be much more effective than tackling/committing to a tackle which can lead to a turnover less often and more often results in ball ups or the player raising their arms or getting a quick handball away. We were on the losing end of the tackle count a lot in our first 10 games.

Yep exactly. Just had a re read of my post and was really referring to tackles only opposed to pressure acts.

Hopefully Mayne has realised this as I believe he once said he rather have 10 tackles than goals.

 

[Gekko71]

Barring disaster the Hawks will travel these finals, so that's in our favor... but I don't think it will be that big an impediment come finals time frankly.

I'm only focusing on the Hawks because they have presented the biggest thorn in our side historically. No other finals-bound side poses quite the same challenge that they do, so I'd really like us to pick apart their game.

Have any of the regular training watchers seen any man-to-man drills happening at practice? The Hawks do seem more vulnerable to a one-on-one contested environment, so I'd be curious to know if we're adding that particular string to our bow in any formalised way.

 

[Proud SJW]

You act like a loss means that can't reach a GF, they will make a prelim at the very least.

... duh?
And then with if all things pan out we get to play them in Perth. In a Prelim. That's an advantage. Which we earned, by beating pretty much everyone all this year.
Which is, I believe,. pretty much what I said before.

 

[salim malik]

Where have I said I don't like the way he coaches?

I just don't like how he has no plan B against the Hawks. My posts are more to the long term, particularly finals where the Hawks and possibly Richmond now rip apart our zones.

Saying he has no plan B and the Hawks and the Tigers will rip us apart seems to say you don't have a lot of confidence in his coaching.

 

[DudleyDocker]

Its won 14 for us and a top 2 finish.Ross is the master. He has been able to deliver exactly what we wanted running into the finals,a chance to rest up in the run home and home finals without the travel.

I don't think it has. We have gradually transitioned from a high tackling team to a low tackling team. The game is evolving and I think Ross is moving with the trend.

2013 we were 6th in the league for tackles
2104 we were 10th
This year we are 12th

This season, Hawthorn are 15th, Eagles are 16th and Hawthorn are 17th.

Of the "high tackle count" teams, only Sydney is having a good year, and that is being generous to them.

 

[clogged]

Thought Maric game was excellent, took 6/8 contested marks. Stopped their run at the rucks.

Yeah he was good. Although it was frustrating watching McEvoy made to look silly after Freo made him look like Paul Salmon.

 

[salim malik]

I don't think it has. We have gradually transitioned from a high tackling team to a low tackling team. The game is evolving and I think Ross is moving with the trend.

2013 we were 6th in the league for tackles
2104 we were 10th
This year we are 12th

This season, Hawthorn are 15th, Eagles are 16th and Hawthorn are 17th.

Of the "high tackle count" teams, only Sydney is having a good year, and that is being generous to them.

If you read my next post you will see I agree.We now pressure into a perceived tackle and into a hurried disposal by the opposition.
Banker mentioned pressure tackling in his post which is what I commented on.

 

[DudleyDocker]

The problem is our skills cause another turn over. Eg Faye pressure Mitchell turn over d.Pearce get the ball kick it to 2 on 1 .brad get the ball pass it to gutson and goal.would said tiger a little lucky rioli like them last week can't kick straight.

I agree somewhat with meima on this.

The one on one game style that Richmond employed tonight worked because their skills, particularly short kicking, were excellent.

For some reason, we don't seem to be able to play that "tempo football" for any period of time, before we either rush it and turn it over, or bomb it long to a contest. I think it is this slow play that frustrates the Hawks, and you can see them constantly crowding the mark trying to pressure the opposition player to play on quickly.

There is a time to run and gun, and a time to slow it down, I just don't think we've had the balance right for some weeks now.

Hopefully Ross goes to school on tonight's game and we start building for the finals - looks like top 2 is ours to lose now!

 

[Banker]

Saying he has no plan B and the Hawks and the Tigers will rip us apart seems to say you don't have a lot of confidence in his coaching.

So in your opinion to genuinely support a coach, you can't question his tactics at all? Have 100% trust that he has no flaws?

Against the Hawks I still believe he is stubborn and refuses to change things up. If you can't see that does have weaknesses you're in for a world of dissapointment come GF if the Hawks are up against us.

 

[DudleyDocker]

If you read my next post you will see I agree.We now pressure into a perceived tackle and into a hurried disposal by the opposition.
Banker mentioned pressure tackling in his post which is what I commented on.

OK, misread that salim malik - was just making the point that I think our plan has evolved more towards that Hawks / Richmond (and now Eagles) style.

 

[DudleyDocker]

I think it is apparent for a while now that pressure acts that don´t involve tackling but that lead to turnovers can be much more effective than tackling/committing to a tackle which can lead to a turnover less often and more often results in ball ups or the player raising their arms or getting a quick handball away. We were on the losing end of the tackle count a lot in our first 10 games.

I wonder if this is a part of the reduction in the effectiveness of Chris Mayne and Haydn Ballantyne - two of our best tacklers?

 

[meima]

I agree somewhat with meima on this.

The one on one game style that Richmond employed tonight worked because their skills, particularly short kicking, were excellent.

For some reason, we don't seem to be able to play that "tempo football" for any period of time, before we either rush it and turn it over, or bomb it long to a contest. I think it is this slow play that frustrates the Hawks, and you can see them constantly crowding the mark trying to pressure the opposition player to play on quickly.

There is a time to run and gun, and a time to slow it down, I just don't think we've had the balance right for some weeks now.

Hopefully Ross goes to school on tonight's game and we start building for the finals - looks like top 2 is ours to lose now!

Thanks Dudley that exactly what I try to said but due to my limitation of English can't elaborate nicely.

 

[DudleyDocker]

Thanks Dudley that exactly what I try to said but due to my limitation of English can't elaborate nicely.

I knew what you meant mate

 

[chinggis77]

I wonder if this is a part of the reduction in the effectiveness of Chris Mayne and Haydn Ballantyne - two of our best tacklers?

Mayne has been No 1 in the AFL for "pressure acts", so that has been more his thing than tackling. He is probably still up there. He is just not scoring many goals or getting in position to effect those eye catching turnovers. That in turn is probably an opposition coaching tactic of some kind that I haven´t identified.

 

[meima]

Gone are the day single tagger, cameron ling the best tagger in modern era mention that to beat hawn need the whole team effort. That mean crothin might play tagger and occasionally dirty tactics.instead of unskill player.Really like cameron ling commentator not like darcy.

 

[Freo Dr]

Thought Maric game was excellent, took 6/8 contested marks. Stopped their run at the rucks.

I agree, one of the best games I have seen him play. I also like how they normally left one forward on the 50m line to have a contest to go to.

Richmond had enough speedsters to cover Hill, Hartung, Smith and to a lesser degree Rioli. If you can do that then much of the rest of their midfield is slow.
Somehow also Hawthorn third up man was not seen much so they negated that as well.

 

[Square Peg]

I somehow think it has to be Williams coming up with these brilliant tactical plans not Hardwick. Say what you like about Williams the bloke but he is still one of the games best thinkers.
Anyway, I thought Brad Hill was as weak as piss tonight, if Stephen played like that you'd never hear the end of it but I bet we don't hear a peep about Brad

 

[meima]

Does not worry me whether is william or hardwick. Just like freo harvey and chris scott combo. Brad is hawthorn 2. Time premiership player , stephen got nothing to show.

 

[The Anchorite]

Thought Maric game was excellent, took 6/8 contested marks. Stopped their run at the rucks.

Hale always seems to take a few inside 50 against us, need to break even at least in that regard.

 

[Freo Dr]

Anyway, I thought Brad Hill was as weak as piss tonight, if Stephen played like that you'd never hear the end of it but I bet we don't hear a peep about Brad

He was poor wasn't he started fumbling so much when he actually time - perceived pressure.

 

[Alfonz]

It was interesting to me that it showed Hawthorn can be beaten in a defensive low scoring stoush. Everyone was thinking only the attacking teams had a chance, as sooner or later they'll just slam on a few goals and break free. Our defensive style will always leave us vulnerable to a quick succession of goals, but Richmond at least gives me hope that we can at least give ourselves a chance against Hawthorn.

Will be interesting to see how WC fares, as their normal gameplan (attacking and zone/cluster defence) is quite different to what Richmond did against Hawthorn.

 

[ydraw]

You mentioned pressure which doesn't always equate to a tackle.Ross is the master at the perceived tackle,pressuring into turning the ball over.
You don't seem to like the way Ross coaches,fair enough ,its your opinion but you must admit that 2 losses ,top of the ladder with a top 2 finish in the bag is a pretty reasonable coaching effort.

I think the way Ross coaches works against most sides, but it doesn't work against Hawthorn. Our record against them in the last 5 years is awful. I'd like to see us change up our game plan against Hawthorn rather than go with the same one that has never worked for us.

 

[rodney hoo]

I agree, one of the best games I have seen him play. I also like how they normally left one forward on the 50m line to have a contest to go to.

Richmond had enough speedsters to cover Hill, Hartung, Smith and to a lesser degree Rioli. If you can do that then much of the rest of their midfield is slow.
Somehow also Hawthorn third up man was not seen much so they negated that as well.

Yes it worked very well, bit like Pagans paddock in the Carey days, IMO Clarke could do this.