Post Game vs Hawks

[Hayes4PM]

It was awesome cricket to watch - we were lucky Rahat dropped him.

But yeah Melbourne losing the top ups is not good for them. Maybe it puts things into perspective....

Reckon its a 3 way race between us the Doggies and Melbourne for the spoon (for those old enough they were the same 3 teams in the early and mid 80's who would be down the bottom - kind of sad and ironic really )

Geez, I was sure we had the spoon in the bag again but after Melbourne losing to the top ups wow.

 

[Rors]

Who's our best leap at the club. Maybe need a 4th mid who can jump instead of a 2nd ruc at the centre bounces could work.

Jack Lonie is your man... Check the stats: 1 hit out... The Imp can do anything!

 

[cooperrules]

The up coming season is going to give me a lot of general soreness.

 

[dewah07]

The up coming season is going to give me a lot of general soreness.

And I'll be have a lot of broken...... TV's

 

[Mitch35]

Who's our best leap at the club. Maybe need a 4th mid who can jump instead of a 2nd ruc at the centre bounces could work.

I wonder if there are stats for Hitouts to Advantage against full time rucks, versus Hitouts to Advantage against part timers? If the player could put up enough competition it would be reasonable, as we'd have another player who could work at ground level. Would be a good use for Gilbert if he ever got on the park...

 

[Periphery]

I wonder if there are stats for Hitouts to Advantage against full time rucks, versus Hitouts to Advantage against part timers? If the player could put up enough competition it would be reasonable, as we'd have another player who could work at ground level. Would be a good use for Gilbert if he ever got on the park...

Champion data would probably have this but I'm not sure if they track the opponent at the time the hitout stat was collected (but they collect so much other info that I don't see why they wouldn't).

Hit up https://twitter.com/fantasyfreakoand ask them if they can help out. They might be able to give you hitouts won/adv against opponents with less than x amounts of hitouts for the year.

 

[holllywood]

We were always going to get pumped by Hawthorn. Best coached team by the best coach.

Hawthorn are a seriously ood team at applying pressure and our skills as a whole are below average. This is what they do to teams in the regular season so it makes it harder when our a host of our more experienced players are out.

It took Hawthorn 4 years to win a premiership under Clarkson and then another 4 more years to become the powerhouse that they are.

Shows that even under the best coach in the AFL, building premiership teams/dynasties take time.

 

[ike2112]

Most of those whining turds probably haven't, and have never, ponied up for a membership, or rattled a tin when the club was truly in need.

Pathetic from a lot of our supporter base. Genuinely pathetic.

I agree, but the problem really is that its those unconstructive complainers that the club has to win over, in order to get the member number up and the balance sheet looking nicer. Those people who can't eloquently express frustration, might be the key to whether we can afford a big free agent in 2018, and therefore might affect our flag chances...

 

[Big Mart]

I love how we take solace in not being the worst team.

Says a lot imo

 

[ike2112]

My old fella's one of the 'go on, kick is backwards again!' brigade, and clearly it's a generational thing, but to be honest I do see his/their point to a degree; whilst I appreciate switching the play and it's usefulness, to see players do it and stuff up in a vulnerable position, or do it because they're too scared to attack is extremely frustrating.

This was mentioned on a coaching course I was on a few weeks ago. One of the key's to the modern game, but also the easiest way to mess up your own structure coming out, and putting unnecessary pressure on your own side. Its a very fine line between being a good thing and bad, there's a time and a reason to do it. Even experienced AFL players struggle to make that judgement, it would be madness to think most fans would be able to. So instead they just jump straight to frustration instead.

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

Well put it this way; at least we could beat (flog) the Essendope top ups unlike Melbourne.

Thats gotta be tuff on their supporters.
We are a rebuilding wooden spooner side trying to find our feet and we beat em by 9 goals.
thats one game you just didnt want to lose.

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

I love how we take solace in not being the worst team.

Says a lot imo

It says were not happy being the worse team

 

[Sir Skid]

It says were not happy being the worse team

Thats the difference between a rebuilding competitive culture and a tanking culture.
Dees do seem to be on a better path though.

 

[Barrels]

I agree, but the problem really is that its those unconstructive complainers that the club has to win over, in order to get the member number up and the balance sheet looking nicer. Those people who can't eloquently express frustration, might be the key to whether we can afford a big free agent in 2018, and therefore might affect our flag chances...

It's not their lack of eloquence, some of them are really quite eloquent in fact, it's more that in their strident ranting there is absolutely no acknowledgement of context (injury-riddled last v near-strength first) nor any consideration of where we're at in terms of rebuilding.

AFL footballers who simply can't hit a target frustrate the hell out of us all, but it's not always that simple; sometimes they're under such a degree of pressure that skill errors occur. That happens.

The problem with courting these people in terms of membership numbers is that it's a false dawn; most of them will never shell out anyway - they'd rather complain and feel a sense of entitlement for no outlay on their part - but they're also the type to dive off the bandwagon at the earliest opportunity.

I'd rather court the quiet, considered majority who've just never got around to joining up for one reason or another, or lapsed members. It's something I think the club's been doing very well lately actually.

 

[From 45]

I love how we take solace in not being the worst team.

Says a lot imo

It shows no matter how bad things are, there's always someone worse off than you.

That's life

 

[okeydoke7]

I am not wanting to take any light off the boys. Disposal wasn't great last night, lack of effort. We have areas to improve.

This is an interesting statistic from our last two games against Hawthorn.

Total Games Experience:
2014 Round 7: St Kilda (1927 games) vs. Hawthorn (2552 games).
2015 NAB3: St Kilda (1273 games) vs. Hawthorn (2872 games).

You take off Montagna last night (232 games), you have a team with nearly 3 times the experience playing against us.

And we were missing 7-9 automatic selections in the team (Riewoldt, Armitage, Geary, Savage, Billings, Ray, Webster, Ross, Gilbert). Versus a practically full strength premiership winning side that has only gotten stronger on the off season. Yes it was a underdone performance, and I'm not saying we've improved, but in light of 2014's performance it could of been a LOT worse.

Great contribution. Puts cold hard facts on the table to explain what most of us (hopefully) acknowledged long before that game began.

Lonie didn't get much of the ball. But he seems to be a real impact player. Doesn't need much of it. Late in the game it was the most basic thing that impressed me. He got a shocking handball or kick to him, put him under pressure. Forced him to chase the loose ball and collect between two hawks. One right on his tail and one in front of him. In a split second he collects the loose ball just before a Hawks counterpart and calmly loops a handball long over the top to the waiting Saints player (while copping the hit from the Hawks guy in front of him who had left his man to impact that play).

It doesn't sound like much, but that same type of play was a turnover for us about 40 times in that match. He wasn't fazed by the bloke trailing him. He wasn't fazed by the other bloke coming at him from in front. he backed himself to get to the footy first and had the composure to hit his target swiftly while copping the hit. Good sign.

 

[Barrels]

Jesus Mart, I don't think anyone's taking solace in not being the worst team, rather in the fact that it wasn't us that lost to a bunch of top ups if anything.

On the contrary, according to the most current rankings (last year's ladder) we ARE the worst team.

I think if anyone's taking solace in anything, it's that for all the words and effort, Melbourne is still finding ways to make an embarrassment of themselves, whilst off the field we're really starting to operate like the big boys, and on it we're seeing light at the end of the tunnel (however distant) and at least some cause for optimism.

Last night Melbourne, with most of their best side in, took a massive step backwards.

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

I gota keep reminding myself how inexperienced a team we are... Looking back at gws and gc from 3 years ago. Even with all the best young players and a few seniors in the team they would get pumped heavily by the experienced teams. They always looked under pressure and couldnt get the ball moving. Very similar to how we look now, especially with our injuries.
But in similar fashion, we'll build through the draft... Picks 1 & 2 this year will obviously make a huge difference.

 

[Barrels]

I gota keep reminding myself how inexperienced a team we are... Looking back at gws and gc from 3 years ago. Even with all the best young players and a few seniors in the team they would get pumped heavily by the experienced teams. They always looked under pressure and couldnt get the ball moving. Very similar to how we look now, especially with our injuries.
But in similar fashion, we'll build through the draft... Picks 1 & 2 this year will obviously make a huge difference.

Exactly, and we look like we've done very well from the most recent drafts.

I think the nucleus of a (potentially) very good side is there. Of the kids under 22, there's plenty to like;

FB: Webster - xxxx - Wright
HB: Newnes* - Goddard - McKenzie
CR: Saunders - Sinclair - Templeton
HF: Billings - White - Lonie
FF: Membrey - McCartin - Pierce
RK: Longer - Dunstan - Ross
IC: Acres Minchington Murdoch Payne
* turned 22 in late Feb.

The other night, Lewy Pierce showed plenty, and Spencer has shown glimpses of enormous talent that we all hope can be harnessed. Jack Lonie has been a revelation, and Sinclair has been impressive so far; Seb Ross had finally started to really show us what he was capable of before his hamstring went.

We need another young KPD, but there's talent there; we'll make it back to the summit.

 

[Periphery]

I take solace in the fact that I'm not the worst poster here.

 

[Barrels]

I take solace in the fact that I'm not the worst poster here.

 

[gilbert the best]

disappointing yes, but unexpected no, could expect a few of these hiding if you want to blood al the young kids in the next two or three years,
heads up, its a learning curve for everyone.

 

[Kilroy]

My old fella's one of the 'go on, kick is backwards again!' brigade, and clearly it's a generational thing, but to be honest I do see his/their point to a degree; whilst I appreciate switching the play and it's usefulness, to see players do it and stuff up in a vulnerable position, or do it because they're too scared to attack is extremely frustrating.

Case in point.
The Dees lost their game last night when Jack Viney kicked backwards and turned it over with about a minute to play.
A few moments earlier Lamumba had taken the game on and kicked long into the forward line, resulting in a goal.
The Saints need to change their backward inclinations no doubt, as our new focus on being more daring attests. More importantly, as you imply, it's about decision-making. Looking forward should be the first and second options. Going backwards should only be to improve the chances of a better outcome for going forward.
We need to work smarter.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Exactly, and we look like we've done very well from the most recent drafts.

I think the nucleus of a (potentially) very good side is there. Of the kids under 22, there's plenty to like;

FB: Webster - xxxx - Wright
HB: Newnes* - Goddard - McKenzie
CR: Saunders - Sinclair - Templeton
HF: Billings - White - Lonie
FF: Membrey - McCartin - Pierce
RK: Longer - Dunstan - Ross
IC: Acres Minchington Murdoch Payne
* turned 22 in late Feb.

The other night, Lewy Pierce showed plenty, and Spencer has shown glimpses of enormous talent that we all hope can be harnessed. Jack Lonie has been a revelation, and Sinclair has been impressive so far; Seb Ross had finally started to really show us what he was capable of before his hamstring went.

We need another young KPD, but there's talent there; we'll make it back to the summit.

Very few positives from Thursday, but I like your comment on Sinclair. He might be a year older, but he hasn't played more footy and only played 3 VFL games. I see him as having the same upside as an 18 yo. Looks a natural. And seems to really put his head over the ball.

 

[gringo2011]

I was struggling watching Shelton go way back behind the mark every time he had it and taking for ever to choose a target - he usually found one but by then everything else had well and truly been shut down -- maybe that's a team coaching issue the players up the ground maybe need to anticipate a saints possession and make position to accommodate the next move so a guy getting the ball has the confidence to turn to see that someone has given him an option - no doubt that's the idea but we just aren't up to it yet

I think it's the next link that we fall down in. Gwilt, Shenton, Roberton, Dempster and anyone else kicking in struggle for options. We used Dal Santo,Ray etc for the link up. CJ could be relied upon to use his extraordinary work rate to get back. We now rely on Wright, Newnes, Webster etc as our rebound backs. We sent Montagna back when Wright went down the other night. We need midfielders but these days that includes wings and rebound small defenders. We just don't have anyone that can stay on the park in that role. Gwilt spent a lot of last year looking around for options that didn't eventuate before playing on with a look of resignation.