News Rodney Eade confirmed as GC coach (see p10)

[SugarCoat]

Wasn't Greg Denham the journalist that wrote that Tyson Goldsack was on his way to Adelaide before the Hawthorn game?

 

[Old Spice]

That would be great.

MarkT will be in rapture!

Would be great to prise Gubby out of there.

 

[Scodog10]

Would someone else who doesn't have a soapbox and personal agenda, and actually knows something about the internal personnel at your club, that I have enjoyed watching battle it out against my club for the last 40+ years, care to have a go at this question.

Because I would genuinely like to know if you think there is someone good enough already at Collingwood to fill Eade's shoes?

Internally the man most suited would be Hine.

The issue is that many on here see a promotion of him into this role as robbing Peter to pay Paul, but I'm more pragmatic myself and take the view that it's the natural progression of his current role as head of list management and recruiting. In his current role I think he's spreading himself too thin and ultimately it's effecting the shape of our list.

In an ideal world we'd poach someone like Chris Fagan or Gubby Allen, but I'm skeptical about the likelihood of that.

 

[SugarCoat]

Eddie said there won't be any internal movements.

but I'm more pragmatic myself and take the view that it's the natural progression of his current role as head of list management and recruiting

He's been the list manager for less than a year. It's not natural progression IMV to move so quickly.

 

[Scodog10]

Eddie said there won't be any internal movements.



He's been the list manager for less than a year. It's not natural progression IMV to move so quickly.

I honestly couldn't give a s**t what Eddie thinks!!!

Number17 asked for OUR opinion on whether we could promote from within not Eddie's.

Also Hine moved into the role once Rendell was put on in mid-late 2012. Since that point the number and quality of established players brought in has been underwhelming.

He either needs to be head recruiter or a football director because, IMO, there is enough evidence to show he can't handle elements of both roles because they spread him too thin.

Case in point we have no full time opposition scout (so it falls on Hine and his team) yet have brought 10 players in from other clubs over the past 3 years. It's crazy to bring that many in if you aren't investing the resources into it...

 

[Old Spice]

I honestly couldn't give a s**t what Eddie thinks!!!

Number17 asked for OUR opinion on whether we could promote from within not Eddie's.

Also Hine moved into the role once Rendell was put on in mid-late 2012. Since that point the number and quality of established players brought in has been underwhelming.

He either needs to be head recruiter or a football director because, IMO, there is enough evidence to show he can't handle elements of both roles because they spread him too thin.

Case in point we have no full time opposition scout (so it falls on Hine and his team) yet have brought 10 players in from other clubs over the past 3 years. It's crazy to bring that many in if you aren't investing the resources into it...

For the cost we've got established players for , i.e. mainly 3rd round or Free agency, they've been fine. We could have bought in better established players by using our 2nd round picks, but then we lose quality at the draft. There is always an opportunity cost.

What do you mean by opposition scout? I know we employ an opposition analyst and have a network of talent scouts.

 

[SugarCoat]

Jarrod Harkness is an opposition scout.
Hine didn't become the list manager until after Geoff Walsh left Collingwood.
Even when Rendell joined in 2012, Hine was involved in recruiting solely and Geoff Walsh was effectively the head of the list management team.

 

[Scodog10]

For the cost we've got established players for , i.e. mainly 3rd round or Free agency, they've been fine. We could have bought in better established players by using our 2nd round picks, but then we lose quality at the draft. There is always an opportunity cost.

What do you mean by opposition scout? I know we employ an opposition analyst and have a network of talent scouts.

Spicey if you knew what we were paying Lynch, White and Young you wouldn't think that way. All I'll say is that it's significant overs!!

By opposition scout I mean someone employed to track talent from within the AFL as their full time job.

Both Richmond and Sydney employ people in this role and I know North Melbourne have invested heavily in this area yet we haven't...

 

[No SPIN]

Internally the man most suited would be Hine.

The issue is that many on here see a promotion of him into this role as robbing Peter to pay Paul, but I'm more pragmatic myself and take the view that it's the natural progression of his current role as head of list management and recruiting. In his current role I think he's spreading himself too thin and ultimately it's effecting the shape of our list.

In an ideal world we'd poach someone like Chris Fagan or Gubby Allen, but I'm skeptical about the likelihood of that.

How is a GUN recruiter suited to an administrative paper shuffling job? Why would we take Hine away from where he is standout, and place him in a position where he is clearly inexperienced. Its a lose/lose.
On caretaker basis maybe.

 

[Scodog10]

Jarrod Harkness is an opposition scout.
Hine didn't become the list manager until after Geoff Walsh left Collingwood.
Even when Rendell joined in 2012, Hine was involved in recruiting solely and Geoff Walsh was effectively the head of the list management team.

Harkness' role is different to the one I'm referring to. Football analysis manager doesn't even fall under Hine in recruiting...

Edit: I was also told that Hine moved into the list management role at that to time in order to get Rendell over the line with the carrot that he'll be the main man in the short term.

 

[Scodog10]

How is a GUN recruiter suited to an administrative paper shuffling job? Why would we take Hine away from where he is standout, and place him in a position where he is clearly inexperienced. Its a lose/lose.
On caretaker basis maybe.

I didn't realise Hine started his career in recruitment? How silly of me to think that he actually worked before joining Collingwood!

FWIW I no longer feel that he's a standout....

 

[SugarCoat]

Harkness' role is different to the one I'm referring to. Football analysis manager doesn't even fall under Hine in recruiting...

I'm confused.
You said opposition scout?
Why would there be an opposition scout in recruiting?
You mean they scout current listed players?
Most clubs have a list management committee, the list manager chairs that committee and potential listed AFL players are discussed between Eade, Hine, Buckley & the other recruiting team.

 

[SugarCoat]

I didn't realise Hine started his career in recruitment? How silly of me to think that he actually worked before joining Collingwood!

FWIW I no longer feel that he's a standout....

Hine used to work for the MFB but at the same time he coached U18 Football and eventually he scouted for these teams.

 

[Scodog10]

I'm confused.
You said opposition scout?
Why would there be an opposition scout in recruiting?
You mean they scout current listed players?
Most clubs have a list management committee, the list manager chairs that committee and potential listed AFL players are discussed between Eade, Hine, Buckley & the other recruiting team.

Opposition scout is a role like Dom Milesi's (as an U18/ state level scout) that focuses purely on sourcing players from within the AFL. Within certain clubs this scout will present to the list management committee and make recommendations on who to target.

You would be correct that most teams don't employ people in this role and leave it to the list committee, but unfortunately for us most teams don't source 10 players from within the AFL over a 3 year period.

If we want to bring in a foreign legion we need to invest to make sure we do it properly which to this point we haven't...

 

[Scodog10]

Hine used to work for the MFB but at the same time he coached U18 Football and eventually he scouted for these teams.

As well as time spent in sports marketing plus the training he has undertaken with Collingwood (which I should probably have emphasized in my previous post).

 

[Old Spice]

Spicey if you knew what we were paying Lynch, White and Young you wouldn't think that way. All I'll say is that it's significant overs!!

By opposition scout I mean someone employed to track talent from within the AFL as their full time job.

Both Richmond and Sydney employ people in this role and I know North Melbourne have invested heavily in this area yet we haven't...

What do we pay them?

On tracking AFL talent, if you mean administrators and footy department people, I don't think there is any need for some specialist scout. Everyone already knows who's good and interview them then throw a big cheque at them if they're good. With FD soft caps, that sounds an extraordinary waste of money.

If it is a scout looking at football talent, we have a massive network as it is.

 

[SugarCoat]

As well as time spent in sports marketing plus the training he has undertaken with Collingwood (which I should probably have emphasized in my previous post).

Hine has been heavily involved with the Ormond FC & the Prahran Dragons who later on became the Sandringham team.
His true passion and motivation for many years has been junior development and identification.
Yes people get career progressions but you want someone doing what they are best qualified for and have experience.

 

[mattys123]

Deal done, we get some compo after all, take that Eddie haters;

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl...from-collingwood/story-e6frf3e3-1227106433912

 

[Scodog10]

Hine has been heavily involved with the Ormond FC & the Prahran Dragons who later on became the Sandringham team.
His true passion and motivation for many years has been junior development and identification.
Yes people get career progressions but you want someone doing what they are best qualified for and have experience.

If recruitment is his passion he needs to be demoted because we aren't getting the best out of him currently, IMO. As it stands the role he's in is just middle ground and is taking neither himself nor the club anywhere.

What do we pay them?

On tracking AFL talent, if you mean administrators and footy department people, I don't think there is any need for some specialist scout. Everyone already knows who's good and interview them then throw a big cheque at them if they're good. With FD soft caps, that sounds an extraordinary waste of money.

If it is a scout looking at football talent, we have a massive network as it is.

Money, I assume?

I mean players. Why would we track admin and footy department members?

Our network is no longer massive unfortunately and the network we do have is heavily weighted towards U18 & state level. This is despite roughly 40% of our recruits since 2012 being established talent.

Few will take this on board, but our recruiting intel on players already in the system is dismal compared to what other clubs are doing. It's why I'm regularly on my high horse about mature age recruits if we're going to go down that path we must invest!!

 

[TradeDraft]

Deal done, we get some compo after all, take that Eddie haters;

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl...from-collingwood/story-e6frf3e3-1227106433912

People will still Call Eddie Greedy and they are Idiots

 

[SugarCoat]

If recruitment is his passion he needs to be demoted because we aren't getting the best out of him currently, IMO. As it stands the role he's in is just middle ground and is taking neither himself nor the club anywhere.

That is kind of my point about internal promotions.
Previous to Hine we had no list management specific person, Geoff Walsh headed up the committee and was the main list manager working with Hine, who headed up drafting.
We moved Hine up when Walsh left.
& we want to do the same when Eade goes?
If you don't learn from past mistakes they happen again.

 

[Old Spice]

Money, I assume?

I mean players. Why would we track admin and footy department members?

Our network is no longer massive unfortunately and the network we do have is heavily weighted towards U18 & state level. This is despite roughly 40% of our recruits since 2012 being established talent.

Few will take this on board, but our recruiting intel on players already in the system is dismal compared to what other clubs are doing. It's why I'm regularly on my high horse about mature age recruits if we're going to go down that path we must invest!!

You stated we overpaid for Lynch, White and Young so I was asking if you know what their contract value was. I figured out all by myself we paid them in money. What did/do we pay them?

On player talent scouts, you say we are 'dismal' compared to other clubs. Can you tell me where you are getting your information from?

 

[Scodog10]

You stated we overpaid for Lynch, White and Young so I was asking if you know what their contract value was. I figured out all by myself we paid them in money. What did/do we pay them?

On player talent scouts, you say we are 'dismal' compared to other clubs. Can you tell me where you are getting your information from?

We were jumping from one topic to another so I assumed you meant the scout. White 400k +, Lynch 350k (to play reserves) & Young 350k.

All 3 are/ were on at least 100k too much plus we've just signed Greenwood to $1.8 million over 4 off the back of one good season and gave Varcoe 3 years...

He posts on here so no specifics, but he's privy to stuff we could only dream of and even the 1% which he's passed on has equal parts disappointed and dismayed...

 

[Wooljay]

We were jumping from one topic to another so I assumed you meant the scout. White 400k +, Lynch 350k (to play reserves) & Young 350k.

All 3 are/ were on at least 100k too much plus we've just signed Greenwood to $1.8 million over 4 off the back of one good season and gave Varcoe 3 years...

He posts on here so no specifics, but he's privy to stuff we could only dream of and even the 1% which he's passed on has equal parts disappointed and dismayed...

Where are you getting these figures from?

I never saw any concrete info, just hearsay and rumours.

 

[rose jam]

Would someone else who doesn't have a soapbox and personal agenda, and actually knows something about the internal personnel at your club, that I have enjoyed watching battle it out against my club for the last 40+ years, care to have a go at this question.

Because I would genuinely like to know if you think there is someone good enough already at Collingwood to fill Eade's shoes?

Derek Hine could do it. Rarely would any club have a petdon sitting there that could fill the role