Autopsy Round 13 = Melbourne 66-62 Collingwood

[ElliottsMaggies]

I think some of the criticism might come from those watching on TV.
Countless times he leaves his man, (like Murphy) to impact a contest.
If he happens to fumble or make a mistake that is the focus.
The fact that the opposition might’ve had 2 or 3 loose players out the back is not known.

Yes, you can definitely tell the supporters who only watch games on telly...they never notice the extra work players do off the ball.

 

[Apex36]

I meant somewhere else in the line up not go to another team! Would I be stupid enough to think he would leave because Noble was being pushed aside!?

“I think Nick Daicos would go somewhere else if Beaker was being forced out”.
Read it back to yourself and think about how that sounds.
I’ll take your word for it that it’s not what you meant, but frankly I’m dubious.

 

[brysie]

Yes, you can definitely tell the supporters who only watch games on telly...they never notice the extra work players do off the ball.

Nonsense.

Plenty of supporters attend games and watch games on tv; they're not mutually exclusive. You don't need to be at the game to know you shouldn't run 20m-25m from a kick in without bouncing the ball, handball to a stationary target in the middle of the ground, or ignore a first time handball and hack kick it forward on your non-dominant foot out of the back pocket.

I don't think anyone's questioning Noble's work rate or his enthusiasm. People are questioning whether there are viable alternatives to someone who makes more errors and turns the ball over more frequently than a number of other backs due to poor decision-making or skill execution when the pressure is ramped up.

 

[Apex36]

Flu had ZERO to do with it in Flys presser. His words

So what? We all know Fly won’t make excuses even if they’re valid.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

Nonsense.

Plenty of supporters attend games and watch games on tv; they're not mutually exclusive. You don't need to be at the game to know you shouldn't run 20m-25m from a kick in without bouncing the ball, handball to a stationary target in the middle of the ground, or ignore a first time handball and hack kick it forward on your non-dominant foot out of the back pocket.

I don't think anyone's questioning Noble's work rate or his enthusiasm. People are questioning whether there are viable alternatives to someone who makes more errors and turns the ball over more frequently than a number of other backs due to poor decision-making or skill execution when the pressure is ramped up.

I said you definitely can tell the supporters who ONLY watch games on telly.

The reality is you can't possibly see what is going on around the ground if you aren't at the ground.

 

[AmericanMustard]

Of course the coach is not gonna come out with a “we had flu that’s why” but cmon, we watch this team every week and our energy looked so far off it’s normal pace it was clearly a factor.

But that’s okay, dropping a game isn’t the end of the world and I saw nothing to suggest we can’t beat Melbourne, we’ve got De Goey, Howe, McStay, Steele and Elliot all to come into the side, that’s more of a factor than the flu. I think against Melbourne in particular McStay will be a huge in, just rolling with Brody against May and Lever was a huge mistake but I’m not sure if we had any other option.

The only bad metric to come out of yesterday is we’ve now lost to 2 of the 3 who will finish in the top 4. I’m not sure if we play Port or Melbourne again this year but we wouldn’t want to drop Brisbane in round 22 or whenever that is

 

[Finnishpie]

No it's not an issue he has a game under his belt...it means he has now played a full game on his return from injury. And he kicked 2 goals.

The two goals were gifts. He wasn't at his best.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

I also didn’t like Moore playing on Fritsch. I felt he had to sacrifice his intercept game too much. I think I’d prefer Maynard to play on him, which would have allowed Moore to help more.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

“I think Nick Daicos would go somewhere else if Beaker was being forced out”.
Read it back to yourself and think about how that sounds.
I’ll take your word for it that it’s not what you meant, but frankly I’m dubious.

Nick was one of the players named in a 7 man defence. Perhaps my wording was ambiguous but the intended meaning was somewhere else on the ground'. Be dubious if you like, but be smart.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

The two goals were gifts. He wasn't at his best.

Hardly any of them were at the best. But, clearly he was fit enough to be named, he's back now, he's played a full game. He had to return at some stage and I'm glad he has.

I'm not sure how you classified his 2 goals as gifts..

 

[Apples]

The scoreboard shows we lost by four points, but it should have been at least 4 goals. We were well beaten.

I haven't seen this group fumble like they did yesterday. Players who normally take the ball cleanly, fumbled so often. Nor have I seen seen great decision -makers miss the mark so often. Pressure? We've played under extreme pressure before and never looked like that. Tired? They looked tired and flat, but came off the rare luxury of a nine day break. Flu? Seems a few players were under a cloud. It's no excuse though. Pick fit players only.

The real reason we lost is that Melbourne found the key to beating us. We couldn't play the way we wanted to play because of the whole-ground defence they employed. We had no answers. Oh, and the bloody ball was laughing at us - it wouldn't sit, not bloody once.

Time for Mr Leppitsch to go to work and come up with a tweaked plan, because every team will now try to unlock us in this way.

 

[Do_Beta_Rapport]

Glad we don’t play them in the H&A again this season.

We need to make serious adjustments to our coaching for next time, let’s not waste it.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

I feel we were missing a lot of run off half back. I would replace Frampton with a Ruscoe (Howe long term)
I would switch the Cox/Cameron roles. Cameron still looks a little flat after coming back from injury.
In Elliott out Harrison
In McStay out McInnes
In Krueger out AJ
In DeGoey out WHE
In Sidebottom out Markov

 

[Finnishpie]

Hardly any of them were at the best. But, clearly he was fit enough to be named, he's back now, he's played a full game. He had to return at some stage and I'm glad he has.

I'm not sure how you classified his 2 goals as gifts..

I'm glad he's back too. Wouldn't have played him but as I said, not the biggest issue. Biggest issue is how we move forward knowing that one team has a system that matches us.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

I'm glad he's back too. Wouldn't have played him but as I said, not the biggest issue. Biggest issue is how we move forward knowing that one team has a system that matches us.

Dee's played their best game for the year. We played our worst along with the Lions game at the Gabba.

When we play our best, or even just marginally better than yesterday, I wouldn't be concerned about the Dee's in the slightest.

I also have no issue naming a player who has trained fully and passed all fitness tests. As did Lippa.

 

[Do_Beta_Rapport]

The scoreboard shows we lost by four points, but it should have been at least 4 goals. We were well beaten.

I haven't seen this group fumble like they did yesterday. Players who normally take the ball cleanly, fumbled so often. Nor have I seen seen great decision -makers miss the mark so often. Pressure? We've played under extreme pressure before and never looked like that. Tired? They looked tired and flat, but came off the rare luxury of a nine day break. Flu? Seems a few players were under a cloud. It's no excuse though. Pick fit players only.

The real reason we lost is that Melbourne found the key to beating us. We couldn't play the way we wanted to play because of the whole-ground defence they employed. We had no answers. Oh, and the bloody ball was laughing at us - it wouldn't sit, not bloody once.

Time for Mr Leppitsch to go to work and come up with a tweaked plan, because every team will now try to unlock us in this way.

Very good points

 

[brysie]

I said you definitely can tell the supporters who ONLY watch games on telly.

The reality is you can't possibly see what is going on around the ground if you aren't at the ground.

Your response was in relation to another poster saying that Noble tries and often comes off his man to impact a contest further up field (which you can't always see on tv) in response to mistakes I pointed out that were simply a result of poor decision-making and skill execution.

To suggest that the criticisms of Noble by those who only watch games on tv are invalid because they're not at the ground is missing the point. Many of the criticisms come from the fact that he in high pressure games he is often caught in two minds which then leads to a rushed kick or handball and turnover.

I like when he gets the ball off half-back, can carry it before hitting a long kick as it's simple and minimises the scope for error. Yesterday wasn't a game suited to players kicking the ball long from half-back to a contest as May and Lever were sitting back and, at worst, creating a contest and spoiling the ball to the front of the contest.

 

[OniAu]

I'm glad he's back too. Wouldn't have played him but as I said, not the biggest issue. Biggest issue is how we move forward knowing that one team has a system that matches us.

That narrow loss will be a gift for us to disect a solution to it. They held us really well. Im not going to say we played terrible , as we were forced into the way we played.

Feel like our selections were not the greatest either. Balance of the team didnt seem right. Two inexperienced forwards. Not much pace replacement through the middle with JDG out. Top heavy down back.

In saying all that , was just four points

 

[sr36]

I'm glad he's back too. Wouldn't have played him but as I said, not the biggest issue. Biggest issue is how we move forward knowing that one team has a system that matches us.

Lots of basic skills work so we don't miss so many handballs - we were really sloppy by hand yesterday. And I daresay harder and smarter running, so we aren't as outnumbered so often - Sidey and JDG will help on both fronts - particularly as JDG has the power to get us out of jail when there is a shit handball to him.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

Your response was in relation to another poster saying that Noble tries and often comes off his man to impact a contest further up field (which you can't always see on tv) in response to mistakes I pointed out that were simply a result of poor decision-making and skill execution.

To suggest that the criticisms of Noble by those who only watch games on tv are invalid because they're not at the ground is missing the point. Many of the criticisms come from the fact that he in high pressure games he is often caught in two minds which then leads to a rushed kick or handball and turnover.

I like when he gets the ball off half-back, can carry it before hitting a long kick as it's simple and minimises the scope for error. Yesterday wasn't a game suited to players kicking the ball long from half-back to a contest as May and Lever were sitting back and, at worst, creating a contest and spoiling the ball to the front of the contest.

But I wasn't specifically referring to Noble or his game yesterday.

My comment was about in general...you can tell the supporters who ONLY watch footy on TV. Because they don't see, because they can't see, what a player is doing off the ball.

As for Noble, I love his tenacity. He made some errors yesterday. Along with many other players. I don't crucify the players for having an off day or making a few blues. It's happens.

 

[brysie]

But I wasn't specifically referring to Noble or his game yesterday.

My comment was about in general...you can tell the supporters who ONLY watch footy on TV. Because they don't see, because they can't see, what a player is doing off the ball.

As for Noble, I love his tenacity. He made some errors yesterday. Along with many other players. I don't crucify the players for having an off day or making a few blues. It's happens.

No, but the poster you replied to was.

Irrespective of whether you were or weren't referring to Noble specifically, this isn't about people crucifying Noble for having an off day or making a few blues. It's about questioning whether there are other alternatives to Noble whose errors yesterday were consistent with a pattern of poor decision-making and skill execution, not an off day.

I also don't think people are 'crucifying' him. No-one's blaming him for the loss, and it is widely acknowledged that there were a number of players who were down yesterday. People are commenting on observed patterns of play and behaviour - it's why you don't see people 'crucifying' Pendles or Maynard.

 

[TW Sherrin]

I'm not fully convinced by our two ruck setup, but they did pretty well against Gawn/Grundy today. Gawn only 6 marks and did not have the impact against us he's had in the past. Don't think he took a single mark up forward.

On paper we won more center clearances (10-7) but Melbourne had cleaner exits from center bounces.

 

[sr36]

That narrow loss will be a gift for us to disect a solution to it. They held us really well. Im not going to say we played terrible , as we were forced into the way we played.

Feel like our selections were not the greatest either. Balance of the team didnt seem right. Two inexperienced forwards. Not much pace replacement through the middle with JDG out. Top heavy down back.

In saying all that , was just four points

If we want the extra aerialist, we need Howe back in defence. When we play both Murphy and Frampton we've got two blokes who don't offer anything in terms of rebound - other than bombs down the line. Personally, I thought we were going well enough in the air without the extra tall.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

No, but the poster you replied to was.

Irrespective of whether you were or weren't referring to Noble specifically, this isn't about people crucifying Noble for having an off day or making a few blues. It's about questioning whether there are other alternatives to Noble whose errors yesterday were consistent with a pattern of poor decision-making and skill execution, not an off day.

I also don't think people are 'crucifying' him. No-one's blaming him for the loss, and it is widely acknowledged that there were a number of players who were down yesterday. People are commenting on observed patterns of play and behaviour - it's why you don't see people 'crucifying' Pendles or Maynard.

It's well known who the whipping boys are. And Noble has always been one of them.

 

[sr36]

On paper we won more center clearances (10-7) but Melbourne had cleaner exits from center bounces.

Yep - they got out the front of stoppage with deep dangerous entries - ours were scrappy kicks to the edge of the centre square.