List Mgmt. Saints father and son

[aussierulesrules]

Looks like by the time we finally have someone worth taking F/S they are going to cost us a premium.

On the flipside, so will some of Sydney's Academy picks.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Looks like by the time we finally have someone worth taking F/S they are going to cost us a premium.

On the flipside, so will some of Sydney's Academy picks.

Unless the F/S is way way way good, you don't gain much.

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

Just heard about the possible changes, very interesting.

For anyone who missed TFS here is an example for Sydney to get Heeney because he is rated top 5 if they win the flag they might (under possible new changes) have to give up 1st and 2nd rounders same as Collingwood with Darcy Moore.

Watch here if you wish (i might have it wrong): http://www.jump-in.com.au/show/aflfootyshow/videos/3679920959001/

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

Just heard about the possible changes, very interesting.

For anyone who missed TFS here is an example for Sydney to get Heeney because he is rated top 5 if they win the flag they might (under possible new changes) have to give up 1st and 2nd rounders same as Collingwood with Darcy Moore.

Watch here if you wish (i might have it wrong): http://www.jump-in.com.au/show/aflfootyshow/videos/3679920959001/

No, you're definitely correct there.

It's probably a touch more fair. But seriously who wouldn't give up Pick 18 and 40 for a top 5 pick.

 

[Nutsngum]

The only issue with f/s is that it benefits the clubs with high draft picks (aka, finals teams) a lot more then it does the bottom end teams.

 

[Periphery]

The only issue with f/s is that it benefits the clubs with high draft picks (aka, finals teams) a lot more then it does the bottom end teams.

Unless the player is rated to be better than your second but not as good as your first. If we have pick 4 and the highest a team is willing to offer is pick 7 then we get them for our second which is a pretty good deal.

That new system they are talking about is a step in the right direction but what happens if a team has two highly rated players in the same year? Unless the AFL bring in trading of future picks and allows them to be used on father sons you could still end up with 2 top 5 picks for your first 3 selections.

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

Unless the player is rated to be better than your second but not as good as your first. If we have pick 4 and the highest a team is willing to offer is pick 7 then we get them for our second which is a pretty good deal.

That new system they are talking about is a step in the right direction but what happens if a team has two highly rated players in the same year? Unless the AFL bring in trading of future picks and allows them to be used on father sons you could still end up with 2 top 5 picks for your first 3 selections.

Sydney have two next season Callum Mills and Dunkley (well they were used as examples on TFS)

 

[lewdogs]

Just a quick question to Rahul or anyone else that knows… are any of our upcoming father/son potentials actually any good?

 

[Nutsngum]

Unless the player is rated to be better than your second but not as good as your first. If we have pick 4 and the highest a team is willing to offer is pick 7 then we get them for our second which is a pretty good deal.

That new system they are talking about is a step in the right direction but what happens if a team has two highly rated players in the same year? Unless the AFL bring in trading of future picks and allows them to be used on father sons you could still end up with 2 top 5 picks for your first 3 selections.

True, but say the Hawks with pick 17 will only have to spend pick 34 on that same player as far as a I know?

Even if they must spend the first rounder, well they just upgraded their 17 to 7 for nothing.

I guess it still works both ways, i just feel it allows high performing teams to maintain a high draft pick intake with none of the hurt of bottoming out.

 

[Periphery]

True, but say the Hawks with pick 17 will only have to spend pick 34 on that same player as far as a I know?

Even if they must spend the first rounder, well they just upgraded their 17 to 7 for nothing.

I guess it still works both ways, i just feel it allows high performing teams to maintain a high draft pick intake with none of the hurt of bottoming out.

Yeah, they get the player for 34 if no one bids higher than their first. Even though it can be a good deal for the bottom teams, I do agree with you that it does tend to favor the teams at the top of the ladder.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Just a quick question to Rahul or anyone else that knows… are any of our upcoming father/son potentials actually any good?

I can't answer that. But I DO know that Pelchen and Co have done tons of work with them so far, far more than the Saints have ever done in this area before. And Pelchen has this, uh, "outside the box" approach to things - as evidenced by Holmes. He will use any legitimate avenue he can think of to make the team have stronger players. I trust him to be all over the whole thing with FS, and the players eligible for us.

 

[aussierulesrules]

That new system they are talking about is a step in the right direction but what happens if a team has two highly rated players in the same year? Unless the AFL bring in trading of future picks and allows them to be used on father sons you could still end up with 2 top 5 picks for your first 3 selections.

Yeah, as soon as I heard Damo talking about this last night I started thinking about how it would affect Sydney next year, when they could have both Mills and Dunkley being rated as top 5 picks (Mills is even being touted as worth pick 1) and even if the AFL said they had to give up their picks in all of the first 4 or 5 rounds, they would still make out of it like bandits. So then I started to wonder if they might make them give up their first pick the following year as well. But then what happens if they have someone highly rated that year as well?

This whole Sydney academy thing could get out of hand very quickly if the AFL aren't careful, especially if the game continues to grow in NSW and if Sydney are able to get the most talented into an elite environment from a young age.

 

[Periphery]

Yeah, as soon as I heard Damo talking about this last night I started thinking about how it would affect Sydney next year, when they could have both Mills and Dunkley being rated as top 5 picks (Mills is even being touted as worth pick 1) and even if the AFL said they had to give up their picks in all of the first 4 or 5 rounds, they would still make out of it like bandits. So then I started to wonder if they might make them give up their first pick the following year as well. But then what happens if they have someone highly rated that year as well?

This whole Sydney academy thing could get out of hand very quickly if the AFL aren't careful, especially if the game continues to grow in NSW and if Sydney are able to get the most talented into an elite environment from a young age.

It forces them to make the choice between the two of them.

Maybe if they made is so that if you finish top 4 (or something) you don't get access to the academy selections?

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

http://www.saints.com.au/video/2014-07-28/fathersons-enjoy-game-day-experience

 

[12Chill]

In terms of Saints F/S prospects I'm most interested in Bailey Rice (Dean Rice's son) and he looks to have a good kicking action. He's eligible for the 2015 AFL Draft and atm I think he stands at 183cm and 80kg (as of 25th March 2014) so if he looks like he'll be a solid size (I assume he's a midfielder) especially if he grows to 186cm or so. He's one I'm most interested in.

The Coghlan boys look alright. http://www.saints.com.au/news/2013-07-16/sons-of-guns-come-out-to-play

 

[12Chill]

(On Bailey Rice, he'll have to choose between St Kilda and Carlton as Dean played 100+ for Blues+Saints)

 

[God Save Max King]

Just a quick question to Rahul or anyone else that knows… are any of our upcoming father/son potentials actually any good?

Nothing outstanding, as said here I think Rice is the most draft able, but you never know. Some of the younger guys have had a bit of hype in the earlier pages.

 

[cooperrules]

Jackson voss looks like a micheal voss clone.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Am I old fashioned, I like to think that kids from the likes of Loewe , Milne, Voss, will get to play at StKilda for stupid sentimental reasons. I don't care if we don't gain much from it.
( Mind you , I wasn't that impressed at getting an untalented cousin of Winmar's who happened to have the same name ).

 

[Persevering Saint]

Saints doing all they can to endear the Coghlan boys, Milney's son and Tom Grant.

http://www.saints.com.au/news/2014-07-28/game-day-experience-for-sons-of-guns

Great timing, considering they came for the Freo win!

 

[goodie23]

Good move by the club, am curious as to why Rice and Harvey weren't there. Rice is more worrying due to the links to Carltank

 

[Persevering Saint]

Good move by the club, am curious as to why Rice and Harvey weren't there. Rice is more worrying due to the links to Carltank

Harvey because he's crap at football and we don't want him.
Rice because... well, I suspect we know the answer, but I don't like it, so I won't say...

 

[God Save Max King]

Harvey because he's crap at football and we don't want him.
Rice because... well, I suspect we know the answer, but I don't like it, so I won't say...

He's not very good at football either

 

[Persevering Saint]

He's not very good at football either

You don't rate Rice? I'd really like to know more about his footballing ability - hardly anybody seems to actually know.

I think there's this misguided assumption that because Ablett, Hawkins, etc, and now McDonald at the Kangas, that "Father/Son = free superstar", and obviously, it's not that simple.

 

[Persevering Saint]

With thanks to OldBlueBro over in the Carlton Father/Son thread.

Bailey is very talented and highly skilful. He is a bit over 6' in the old measure and solid as well. He has a bit of the Rice mongrel, but just a bit more hidden than his old man. However, it does come out when needed. He has played a few senior games for the team his old man coaches (when not playing juniors) and runs rings around those country players. He has pace off the mark but won't break any sprint records.

He will make AFL if he can improve on two things.

1. Endurance (many talented juniors are lazy because they still dominate with skill alone).

2. Learns to read the play better. Most of his junior footy was played either as ruck (great leap) or CHF. Therefore, the ball always came his way and he didn't need to read the play as much as others.

The Blues could do much much worse than drafting Bailey in the 2015 ND. He will make a great BP/HBB until he becomes an on baller after a couple of preseasons.