Coach Sam Mitchell's direction for the club and 2024 news

[Strapping Young Lad]

If anyone wants to have a listen about what the data is saying in regards to whether we have actually gotten worse this year have a listen to this from the 9:15 mark.

I know a few people have already touched on it, but the data is also showing that our results this year have been slightly better despite actually putting out a younger team and dealing with some injuries.




And here.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

What game was Sam watching if he thinks the game was even if you didn’t know the scores not the game I was watching.

He was probably looking at some cheery picked stats.

 

[burner1]

Sam may prove be a great tactician but with the role he inherited his success much more defined by his ability to build a list, culture etc.

Yes a lot of this is on the list management team but coach has a role in defining what he needs. (The talent piece has been done to death so won’t cover).

Feels like we’ve over prioritied a bit of class and ability to play free flowing transition footy over the basic of competitiveness. Outside a few big bodies in middle we are not a hard, tough side nor likely to grow into one given the types we have.

I look at Hardwick at suns and appears to have a clear view on types he wants - hard, physical, competitors with speed and pressure.

I’m also not convinced on our assistant coaching ranks (but hard from outside). We also seemed to be a bit cute changing coaching roles in off-season. We don’t look organised or well drilled (although struggling teams rarely are to be fair).

A lot to work on. I wouldn’t be surprised if some changes at end of year.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

He was probably looking at some cheery picked stats.

we controlled territory and contested ball for large portions of the game. We regularly had periods of 12-5 inside 50s or 75%+ time in fwd half which popped up on the broadcast.

We were just totally impotent and unable to defend them when they moved the ball on transition.

Sam isn't afraid to call us out when we put in a s**t effort. That wasn't the case yesterday. We just aren't particularly good and Sydney are. Every chance they got they took (also thanks to our poor defence), while their defence was a wall exacerbated by our bad connection between fwds and mids. We were pretty even in the contest and that is what Sam is alluding to.

If you gave a better side the looks and ball control we had yesterday they could very well have beaten Sydney. It was a significantly different kind of loss to the one vs GC. That one exposed a lack of effort, this one exposed a lack of talent.

 

[Lickmesocks]

What game was Sam watching if he thinks the game was even if you didn’t know the scores not the game I was watching.

His presser was one of a man that has been told to go very very lightly on the players after the GC presser.

We all know what we watched and could have been summed like this -

“we threw everything at the swans in the first and our energy and effort was first class with smothers and tackles all over the ground, but we didn’t get any scoreboard reward for all that effort and found ourselves down 6 goals to 2. The players confidence and energy was drained. I can’t wait for a day when we kick more goals than behinds just to keep us in more contests”

 

[Roddy]

I think a lot of people are losing sight of the fact that we are currently suffering from the effects of the entire system put into place by the VFL in the late 80s, a system put in place to curb OUR dominance then. It is now curbing our dominance, 2008-2015, once again. It’s happening to Richmond right now too.

That system works, for the most part, and we are forever its victim….

 

[cryptor]

The player development at our club is languishing - Sydney and Geelong are the absolute course leaders. We need to not give the slightest damn about the soft cap and throw some big money on key staff at the Swans and Cats and bring in their IP.

Probably because they didn’t ship off their Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis, Birchall equivalents.

Remember how much better someone like Ryan Burton looked when Hodge was there to give direction?

Mitchell goes off to Eagles. Flag in 2018.

Lewis goes to Melbourne. Few years later and they’re in finals and flag in 2021.

Hodge and Birchall go off to Brisbane and they go from bottom 4 to top 4 in a few seasons. Unlucky not to flag last year.

Who are our senior players that are helping our young players know how to play at AFL level and understand what it takes to win a flag?

Just Gunston and Breust. And their knowledge is largely in an area of the ground that we’ve only recently acquired our future players in (Macdonald, Watson, Dear, Butler)

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Probably because they didn’t ship off their Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis, Birchall equivalents.

Remember how much better someone like Ryan Burton looked when Hodge was there to give direction?

Mitchell goes off to Eagles. Flag in 2018.

Lewis goes to Melbourne. Few years later and they’re in finals and flag in 2021.

Hodge and Birchall go off to Brisbane and they go from bottom 4 to top 4 in a few seasons. Unlucky not to flag last year.

Who are our senior players that are helping our young players know how to play at AFL level and understand what it takes to win a flag?

Just Gunston and Breust. And their knowledge is largely in an area of the ground that we’ve only recently acquired our future players in (Macdonald, Watson, Dear, Butler)

Good points. Mightn't be the worst thing in the world to target an on-field general who can still play a role on the FA market this year.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

What game was Sam watching if he thinks the game was even if you didn’t know the scores not the game I was watching.

We were halving centre clearances, winning stoppages, winning contested footy, getting inside 50’s, doing all the things that would generally get you into a good position on the scoreboard in most games, but we were nowhere near as clean as the Swans across the ground, were routinely picked off and lacked the execution that they possessed.

Our 71% disposal efficiency to their 78% had a big say in the outcome, not to mention the numerous issues inside 50.

I get the basic thoughts of “bad scoreboard = everything was bad” but an AFL coach is a bit beyond that sort of simplicity.

 

[CHUBBSS]

We were halving centre clearances, winning stoppages, winning contested footy, getting inside 50’s, doing all the things that would generally get you into a good position on the scoreboard in most games, but we were nowhere near as clean as the Swans across the ground, were routinely picked off and lacked the execution that they possessed.

Our 71% disposal efficiency to their 78% had a big say in the outcome, not to mention the numerous issues inside 50.

I get the basic thoughts of “bad scoreboard = everything was bad” but an AFL coach is a bit beyond that sort of simplicity.

Half our disposal issues are poor decisions or taking to long to make a decision which in turn creates a bad result, out of all the coaches we could of had I would expected more from Sam in this department, I keep saying it but individual standards keep seemingly slipping, for a young group that’s my worrying sign.

But maybe that is more a reflection on the talent we have and how far we are away of where the competition is moving.

Me being completely blunt, it looks as if we don’t train match play, a number of opportunities to hit the best target available and we wait and stagnate so we can eventually bomb it long or get caught in no man’s land. Over coached may play a role in this to.

Combine that with our consistently poor kicking for goal and ability to turn up to games or on the weekend dropping pressure when we lapse and make errors is just classic young team void of leadership issues but when you look at the whole I can’t help but be more concerned with our coaching structure week on week.

 

[OnTheRocks]

Start of season predictions
Swines top 4 with a real chance of playing deep in the finals.
Hawks bottom 6 with a real chance of finishing bottom 3
They're just that much better than us right now & we have plenty of players positions up for grabs.

 

[mustang]

We were halving centre clearances, winning stoppages, winning contested footy, getting inside 50’s, doing all the things that would generally get you into a good position on the scoreboard in most games, but we were nowhere near as clean as the Swans across the ground, were routinely picked off and lacked the execution that they possessed.

Our 71% disposal efficiency to their 78% had a big say in the outcome, not to mention the numerous issues inside 50.

I get the basic thoughts of “bad scoreboard = everything was bad” but an AFL coach is a bit beyond that sort of simplicity.

Maybe we need to put more emphasis on drafting players that can kick the ball, maybe go back to the drafting left footers again it has worked before.

I understand that we draft for one elite skill or something like that.

But kicking should be KPI number 1 then a bonus if you can do other things.

We have some players in our side that wouldn’t have got a game in our 3 peat developing side before it won the flags because there not a great kick.

 

[Yardie]

I like his athleticism, but I want to see more.

If he was actually allowed to play then maybe he could......

 

[brad sue well]

We need to poach someone from Sydney's scouting and player development team (in particular).

Mitchell also needs experienced specialist assistants/line-coaches, not inexperienced coaches learning on the job.

Caros article suggests it could be easy… cost of living, literally interstate from your family, one northern coach living in a caravan.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

Half our disposal issues are poor decisions or taking to long to make a decision which in turn creates a bad result, out of all the coaches we could of had I would expected more from Sam in this department, I keep saying it but individual standards keep seemingly slipping, for a young group that’s my worrying sign.

But maybe that is more a reflection on the talent we have and how far we are away of where the competition is moving.

Me being completely blunt, it looks as if we don’t train match play, a number of opportunities to hit the best target available and we wait and stagnate so we can eventually bomb it long or get caught in no man’s land. Over coached may play a role in this to.

Combine that with our consistently poor kicking for goal and ability to turn up to games or on the weekend dropping pressure when we lapse and make errors is just classic young team void of leadership issues but when you look at the whole I can’t help but be more concerned with our coaching structure week on week.

i think the simple explanation for this is that we fold under pressure and lack the leadership to steady the ship

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Maybe we need to put more emphasis on drafting players that can kick the ball, maybe go back to the drafting left footers again it has worked before.

I understand that we draft for one elite skill or something like that.

But kicking should be KPI number 1 then a bonus if you can do other things.

We have some players in our side that wouldn’t have got a game in our 3 peat developing side before it won the flags because there not a great kick.

Yes, I’m aware that the spectrum of your analysis generally arrives and ends at “we should do what we did in 2005”, or “player X could be like player Y from 2006”.

Fact is that we are above the league average for kicking efficiency and have been all year, it’s our handballing that is the biggest issue as we bring pressure onto ourselves with overuse or poor execution by hand.

 

[mustang]

Maybe we just play Dear and when McCabe returns has a couple of games at BH, then he plays seniors for the rest of the year with Gunston being the Ben Dixon

Ben Dixon

Age

46

Ht

188cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.8

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

3.2

3star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.4

3star

G

1.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

10.4

3star

K

7.6

3star

HB

2.8

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

0.8

3star

G

2.4

5star

of this rebuild if we plan to play McCabe forward.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Maybe we just play Dear and when McCabe returns has a couple of games at BH, then he plays seniors for the rest of the year with Gunston being the Ben Dixon of this rebuild if we plan to play McCabe forward.

Right on cue.

 

[Pipe Hitter]

Going into this season there was talk we were a team on the way up with an outside chance of making the finals. Our plan of going hard at the draft was supposed to end and the worst was behind us. In my opinion the best thing that has come out of this season so far is the clarity that we need a fair bit more quality. Sam and the rest of the club will be under no illusion that way more needs to be done. Until we address the quality problem especially with our key position players we will struggle. There is no point in blaming Sam's coaching, development, and particular players it won't make any difference. The silver lining is our extended struggle will hopefully help us avoid the problem of rising up the ladder too early. This is pretty much a guarantee of a mid-table no flag future.

 

[TassieGrown]

Going into this season there was talk we were a team on the way up with an outside chance of making the finals. Our plan of going hard at the draft was supposed to end and the worst was behind us. In my opinion the best thing that has come out of this season so far is the clarity that we need a fair bit more quality. Sam and the rest of the club will be under no illusion that way more needs to be done. Until we address the quality problem especially with our key position players we will struggle. There is no point in blaming Sam's coaching, development, and particular players it won't make any difference. The silver lining is our extended struggle will hopefully help us avoid the problem of rising up the ladder too early. This is pretty much a guarantee of a mid-table no flag future.

Agree, we will be treading water until we can add some A grade talent with leadership qualities. Our KP stocks outside of the Beggars are the worst in the league. From what i see at Boxhill there are none there either.

We seem to hanging our hat on Lewis coming good but as each season passes this becomes more of a dream than reality.

 

[HedgeFund]

How many coaches of rebuilding sides have been extended when their results have been this bad over a three year sample size? Legitimate question.

Stewart Dew and Alan Richardson spring to mind.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Stewart Dew and Alan Richardson spring to mind.

Yikes. Hopefully these results have given everyone at the club some clarification as to where we are, and as a result we have reassessed our short term goals. I hope everyone at the club is on the same page about this.

 

[lethalselbow]

How many coaches of rebuilding sides have been extended when their results have been this bad over a three year sample size? Legitimate question.

That's not to bad. 30% wins after two seasons. Clarkson and Damien Hardwick are at 56% winning ratio. So just over 1/2 vs just under a third.

Is it a 3 year sample size? 52 games? Short of two and a half years.

30% winning ratio with the youngest list (or close to) isn't as bad as it seems. I didn't expect us to beat many teams this year.

All that said, no reason for the club to extend him this year, you'd think. Keep powder dry and await more data, progress, etc.

 

[Philhawk]

I’ll say it again, we should extend him by 2 years. Wins shouldn’t be his primary benchmark realistically for the next 18 months.

Our primary goal needs to be getting games into kids, havd them guided by senior pros to set exacting standards - and watching our young reserves team ideally perform at VFL level to a high standard.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I’ll say it again, we should extend him by 2 years. Wins shouldn’t be his primary benchmark realistically for the next 18 months.

Our primary goal needs to be getting games into kids, havd them guided by senior pros to set exacting standards - and watching our young reserves team ideally perform at VFL level to a high standard.

And it remains a bad idea no matter how many times it is said. He's contracted for 2025 and it's unlikely anyone is going to be knocking the door down to poach him. Let him show what he has got over the coming 12 months before considering any kind of extension. Guaranteeing him until 2027 and then continuing to languish would be a disaster.

 

[peetoo]

Swans twos started against box hill in much the same way. Fast and potent. Stangers slowly got into it and tbh took over after the extra 30 min break for butler injury. But I think the swans twos were a bit flat after that