Analysis St Kilda: Where are they at with the rebuild?

[The Punter]

I don't think there's much to be gained in taking the young blokes to Perth in Round 23. I'd be picking a side based on whose left after VFL availability.

Geary Delaney Dempster
Roberton Fisher Savage
Gilbert Dunstan Montagna
Schneider Riewoldt Ray
Lonie Bruce Hickey
Holmes Armitage Steven
Newnes Webster Sinclair Weller

 

[hayes]

Any legs in the observation that Savage played a bigger game without Roberton in the side?

Roberton getting less round the backs, allows Savage & Webster to be that handball receiver.

I like Roberton, but he's not nearly as penetrating as those other 2.

All Savage is really doing is getting back to his early season form. They were both playing well at the start of the year then teams started locking down on Savage and he lost some form. We need a shut down mid size defender to allow all three of them to be more attacking I reckon.

 

[Murraj1966]

Speaking conservatively. Triple premiers 2020-2022

 

[Fruity Boots]

Speaking conservatively. Triple premiers 2020-2022

The three-peat?

 

[StFly]

Why not go 4 in a row and tell Brissie to go get stuffed further than they already are as a club?

Hell, 2020-2030, decade of dominance!!1

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

I don't think there's much to be gained in taking the young blokes to Perth in Round 23. I'd be picking a side based on whose left after VFL availability.

Geary Delaney Dempster
Roberton Fisher Savage
Gilbert Dunstan Montagna
Schneider Riewoldt Ray
Lonie Bruce Hickey
Holmes Armitage Steven
Newnes Webster Sinclair Weller

Hopefully Delaney has qualified... has been great for Sandy & would be a big loss for them if he was promoted.

You make a strong case for Holmesy too.

 

[The Punter]

I just think the first final, being double chance, you'd rather have Goddard playing in the VFL final than Delaney. I'd imagine they'd both be qualified, as would Holmes, Ray & Hickey.

 

[goodie23]

I don't think there's much to be gained in taking the young blokes to Perth in Round 23. I'd be picking a side based on whose left after VFL availability.

Geary Delaney Dempster
Roberton Fisher Savage
Gilbert Dunstan Montagna
Schneider Riewoldt Ray
Lonie Bruce Hickey
Holmes Armitage Steven
Newnes Webster Sinclair Weller

Mainly I want to see Holmes vs Natanui

 

[soups1982]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...ms-jake-stringer/story-fni5f22o-1227499288782

An interesting article.. even more interesting that only 2 st kilda players named (Newnes and Longer).

Thoughts?

 

[BigMonty]

As this thread is about where we are on the re-build. I think we got a stark contrast of where many of clubs near us on the ladder are at with their respective rebuild. I was so PROUD of our team against Geelong and our competitive CULTURE, sure we maybe should have won it if the umpires paid 50ms when they should have etc, but they didn't and we walked away with a draw against a finals contender. Melbourne with arguably a better list (well more first round draft picks) but with a coach stating that they still posses a losing culture cannot beat a side, Carlton a team with no coach, senior players wanting to leave and an assistant coach overlooked for the role as coach and who are last on the ladder. So Melbourne's CULTURE by contrast to ours is in tatters.

Essendon have no coach and may not have a playing list next year depending on WADA, they are playing like a side that has no leadership as the leadership has no moral compass until Jobe Watson comes back... good luck whoever coaches them. Maybe they should look to that boy Hird, he was the messiah last time they were in strife....maybe he could do it again (lol) culture.....hmmmmm.

Collingwood with a coach that has taken them on a wild ride south over the last 4 years from flag contenders to 100 point losers in an attempt to weed out the bad eggs and replace them with good eggs who just can't play footy as well!! Trying to instill culture in Collingwood is hard when you have supporters abusing Richmond players last week and a supporter who vilified Goodes (before it became the norm of all supporters) last year. Culture again.

Brisbane has a youth policy once you stop being youthful or old enough get the hell out of dodge! The exodus of young players from that club indicates there is something lacking. Maybe asking a former captain to leave in Jed Adcock sets the wrong message to the playing group. If someone is good enough to be your leader of a club, he is good enough to spend his days playing for that club until he retires......culture is the issue again.

Gold Coast Suns, a hard arsed coach in rocket Eade has come in and the little princes have had their tears before bedtime moment. How can a club with so many first round draft picks and the best player in the league be sitting third bottom after 5 years in the comp and photos of a player sniffing coke when he is still young enough to be tucked into bed by his mother! Culture perhaps!!!

So Saints are playing an exciting brand of football at a time of the season when everyone is looking at the clock for the season break and playing out time. Says volumes for the culture that the club is exhibiting really really IMPRESSIVE, bring on next year. Use pick 6 and pick the best player we can in the draft, trade it to bring in some more class to our playing group, Jelly perhaps, do whatever, as the decisions that our club are making are right on the money and have been now since Alan Richardson, Trout, Amet Bains and Matt Finnis came on board. (sorry about the spelling). Its that word CULTURE again you just cannot trade in players for it, or buy it, you must manufacture it from within with the right people at the helm.

 

[The Punter]

The really hard thing, and I think Richo et al are sticking with it, is staying with the plan if the plan says you should be at a certain point at the end of season 2015 and you are ahead of it. There are also opportunities in any particular trade period that may not be there when you really want them down the track, so perhaps you have to take them when you can, and it certainly appears there may be a few of them in this off season. Add in the ability to trade future draft picks and the potential for making a mistake is legion.

On the other hand, since the mid-1990s when the draft and salary cap really started to have an effect and even out the competition, we haven't really stuffed a rebuild. Sure, we've stuffed up once we've been going (1998-2000, 2010-2012), but not once we've accepted that we have needed to rebuild. We couldn't have gotten the last four trade/draft periods much better. 2011 and 2012 were compromised but we still got Ross, Newnes & Webster in 2011 and while we haven't got much out of our 2012 class yet, there was not much on offer and we traded for Hickey and Lee. In 2013 we brought Billings, Dunstan, Acres, Templeton, Weller, Holmes, Longer, Bruce, Savage & Delaney into the club. Last year it was McCartin, McKenzie, Goddard, Lonie & Sinclair. Can we expect the next two periods to be as successful? Look out if they are.

 

[BigMonty]

The really hard thing, and I think Richo et al are sticking with it, is staying with the plan if the plan says you should be at a certain point at the end of season 2015 and you are ahead of it. There are also opportunities in any particular trade period that may not be there when you really want them down the track, so perhaps you have to take them when you can, and it certainly appears there may be a few of them in this off season. Add in the ability to trade future draft picks and the potential for making a mistake is legion.

On the other hand, since the mid-1990s when the draft and salary cap really started to have an effect and even out the competition, we haven't really stuffed a rebuild. Sure, we've stuffed up once we've been going (1998-2000, 2010-2012), but not once we've accepted that we have needed to rebuild. We couldn't have gotten the last four trade/draft periods much better. 2011 and 2012 were compromised but we still got Ross, Newnes & Webster in 2011 and while we haven't got much out of our 2012 class yet, there was not much on offer and we traded for Hickey and Lee. In 2013 we brought Billings, Dunstan, Acres, Templeton, Weller, Holmes, Longer, Bruce, Savage & Delaney into the club. Last year it was McCartin, McKenzie, Goddard, Lonie & Sinclair. Can we expect the next two periods to be as successful? Look out if they are.

Like your comments.

If you look at Melbourne's inability to draft well over a long period and to an extent Carlton & to an extent Richmond then your drafting can consign you to a world of hurt. We have been lucky as the older successful players of one era have passed on the ethic to the next younger group. With some artistic license Hamill, Voss & Gehrig onto Burke Loewe Harvey onto Reiwoldt, Montagna Fisher onto Armytage Stevens & Billings etc. Melbourne broke that link and have suffered ever since.

Compared to other drafts that the saints have done this has been a golden era, gone are nearly all our round 1 picks from 2007-2012. McEvoy, Lynch, Cripps, N Winmar (A Lovett). So our drafting has many more hits than misses and trust the guy's to keep delivering. Still reckon we need more elite players
than we currently have. I think that Ross Lyon is going to go down as the coach that almost made it but never did as he never had enough elite talent. GF's of Geelong V us and Free v Haw emphasize that.

It seems to win a flag you MUST have a side that can kick 100 points not defend 60.

 

[The Punter]

It seems to win a flag you MUST have a side that can kick 100 points not defend 60.

You could boil it all down to this, really. The premiership zone is over 100 per game scoring, less than 86 scoring allowed. This year we are scoring 81, and allowing 95, which is significantly better than last season. We need to find three goals per game and restrict 1.5 more.

I agree on the elite talent thing. I've made the point we are right for depth (midfield for example under 30 on list at moment: Steven, Templeton, Savage, Ross, Dunstan, Acres, Markworth, Billings, Newnes, Gilbert, Armitage, Curren, Murdoch, Wright, Saunders, McKenzie, Sinclair, Minchington, Weller) but we desperately need, I think, two more elite midfielders. And that's where the problems come with blokes from other clubs becoming available at certain times.

Say, if Harley Bennell is available for pick 6 in October. Bennell's best would fill a huge piece of the premiership puzzle for us, but there's only one reason GC would be looking to offload him and that reason would make him a risk. Do you stand pat and go to the well again, or take a punt on Bennell because he fills an area of need and, more importantly, someone that talented may not be available again?

 

[blktreacle]

You could boil it all down to this, really. The premiership zone is over 100 per game scoring, less than 86 scoring allowed. This year we are scoring 81, and allowing 95, which is significantly better than last season. We need to find three goals per game and restrict 1.5 more.

I agree on the elite talent thing. I've made the point we are right for depth (midfield for example under 30 on list at moment: Steven, Templeton, Savage, Ross, Dunstan, Acres, Markworth, Billings, Newnes, Gilbert, Armitage, Curren, Murdoch, Wright, Saunders, McKenzie, Sinclair, Minchington, Weller) but we desperately need, I think, two more elite midfielders. And that's where the problems come with blokes from other clubs becoming available at certain times.

Say, if Harley Bennell is available for pick 6 in October. Bennell's best would fill a huge piece of the premiership puzzle for us, but there's only one reason GC would be looking to offload him and that reason would make him a risk. Do you stand pat and go to the well again, or take a punt on Bennell because he fills an area of need and, more importantly, someone that talented may not be available again?

Remember what happened with lovett?

 

[The Punter]

Yep

 

[gringo2011]

I would take the risk again. The GC are a party house environment and getting some out should straighten them up.

 

[blktreacle]

True a change of environment can help straighten them out.if I recall correctly, Tom lynch was pretty loose off feild, the move to Adelaide would've really helped him focus on his footy

 

[TassieSaint]

Have to take Bennell for pick 6 if that was on the table

 

[Persevering Saint]

Whatever holes we have in terms of specific roles and positions, I can honestly say that I think the team from an attitude, a mentality, a culture perspective, is streets ahead of anybody else.

If you get the chance, listen to Mav Weller's interview on SEN recently, and you'll see what I mean. With a month to go, against four pretty darn good teams, nobody would have batted an eye if we folded. As we've seen, Melbourne has decided it's time to tank, losing to Carlton.

What about us?

We've decided these four weeks are a chance to instill fear into the competition, of what we can be next year. We will not go meekly into the night. We will scare the Kangas, the Cats, the Swans and even the Eagles, so they can spend the entire summer remembering what we were capable of, and to think what a preseason will have done to make us even stronger. Our players aren't after the pick. They are after power over their opponents for next year. They are after the chance to instill self-belief, that they CAN take on the big boys, and don't have to hide behind pathetic excuses like the Dees and Blues do, excuses of "we're young, we're tired... wah..." NO. Not us. We are St Kilda. And we will be feared. We will be worth fearing.

 

[austinnn]

Whatever holes we have in terms of specific roles and positions, I can honestly say that I think the team from an attitude, a mentality, a culture perspective, is streets ahead of anybody else.

If you get the chance, listen to Mav Weller's interview on SEN recently, and you'll see what I mean. With a month to go, against four pretty darn good teams, nobody would have batted an eye if we folded. As we've seen, Melbourne has decided it's time to tank, losing to Carlton.

What about us?

We've decided these four weeks are a chance to instill fear into the competition, of what we can be next year. We will not go meekly into the night. We will scare the Kangas, the Cats, the Swans and even the Eagles, so they can spend the entire summer remembering what we were capable of, and to think what a preseason will have done to make us even stronger. Our players aren't after the pick. They are after power over their opponents for next year. They are after the chance to instill self-belief, that they CAN take on the big boys, and don't have to hide behind pathetic excuses like the Dees and Blues do, excuses of "we're young, we're tired... wah..." NO. Not us. We are St Kilda. And we will be feared. We will be worth fearing.

Preeeeeach! How can you do multiple likes for one post? I'll give you another 3000 likes just for your last 3 sentences. 2016 slogan right there.

 

[Mowman]

I would take the risk again. The GC are a party house environment and getting some out should straighten them up.

Or they could bring their bad habits to Linton st

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Whatever holes we have in terms of specific roles and positions, I can honestly say that I think the team from an attitude, a mentality, a culture perspective, is streets ahead of anybody else.

If you get the chance, listen to Mav Weller's interview on SEN recently, and you'll see what I mean. With a month to go, against four pretty darn good teams, nobody would have batted an eye if we folded. As we've seen, Melbourne has decided it's time to tank, losing to Carlton.

What about us?

We've decided these four weeks are a chance to instill fear into the competition, of what we can be next year. We will not go meekly into the night. We will scare the Kangas, the Cats, the Swans and even the Eagles, so they can spend the entire summer remembering what we were capable of, and to think what a preseason will have done to make us even stronger. Our players aren't after the pick. They are after power over their opponents for next year. They are after the chance to instill self-belief, that they CAN take on the big boys, and don't have to hide behind pathetic excuses like the Dees and Blues do, excuses of "we're young, we're tired... wah..." NO. Not us. We are St Kilda. And we will be feared. We will be worth fearing.

Get around him!

 

[Sir Skid]

Whatever holes we have in terms of specific roles and positions, I can honestly say that I think the team from an attitude, a mentality, a culture perspective, is streets ahead of anybody else.

If you get the chance, listen to Mav Weller's interview on SEN recently, and you'll see what I mean. With a month to go, against four pretty darn good teams, nobody would have batted an eye if we folded. As we've seen, Melbourne has decided it's time to tank, losing to Carlton.

What about us?

We've decided these four weeks are a chance to instill fear into the competition, of what we can be next year. We will not go meekly into the night. We will scare the Kangas, the Cats, the Swans and even the Eagles, so they can spend the entire summer remembering what we were capable of, and to think what a preseason will have done to make us even stronger. Our players aren't after the pick. They are after power over their opponents for next year. They are after the chance to instill self-belief, that they CAN take on the big boys, and don't have to hide behind pathetic excuses like the Dees and Blues do, excuses of "we're young, we're tired... wah..." NO. Not us. We are St Kilda. And we will be feared. We will be worth fearing.

I nominate this for post of the year!

 

[hayes]

Whatever holes we have in terms of specific roles and positions, I can honestly say that I think the team from an attitude, a mentality, a culture perspective, is streets ahead of anybody else.

If you get the chance, listen to Mav Weller's interview on SEN recently, and you'll see what I mean. With a month to go, against four pretty darn good teams, nobody would have batted an eye if we folded. As we've seen, Melbourne has decided it's time to tank, losing to Carlton.

What about us?

We've decided these four weeks are a chance to instill fear into the competition, of what we can be next year. We will not go meekly into the night. We will scare the Kangas, the Cats, the Swans and even the Eagles, so they can spend the entire summer remembering what we were capable of, and to think what a preseason will have done to make us even stronger. Our players aren't after the pick. They are after power over their opponents for next year. They are after the chance to instill self-belief, that they CAN take on the big boys, and don't have to hide behind pathetic excuses like the Dees and Blues do, excuses of "we're young, we're tired... wah..." NO. Not us. We are St Kilda. And we will be feared. We will be worth fearing.

 

[AuntieBarrels]

Our first 22 next year with what we have:

B: Webster Goddard Geary
HB: Savage Dempster Roberton
C: Newnes Armitage Montagna
HF: Billings Roo Sinclair
F: Bruce Hickey/Paddy Lonie
Foll:Longer Steven Dunstan
I/C:Membrey Weller Ross Acres

And then we have Hickey/Paddy, D-Mac, Murdoch, Minchington, Markworth, Wright, Delaney, Lee, Curren, Ellen Degeneres, Gilbert (not too sure, he's been really good through the middle the past few weeks)

THEN, over the next few years, we go to the draft; get another 3 top 10 picks, 3 2nd rounders, couple of 3rd rounders.

And we also go to Free Agency and to the trade table to get what we need and to improve on what we already have, hopefully picking up a few elite players through that.

And we filter out the players who are underperforming.

We are looking very strong with the rebuild, doing really really well. Under our circumstances, realistically, it couldn't have been much better than this.

We are going to be ******* scary, and will destroy the rest of the campaigners in the AFL in a few years time