Analysis St Kilda: Where are they at with the rebuild?

[Peter Bosustow]

He's still very raw. Has been playing very well at VFL level but fitness at AFL level is a massive issue. If he plays a full game he usually has a good first quarter then fades, or if he comes on as the sub he'll find plenty of the pill in a quarter or so. Some demand a spot in the team straight away like Billings, Dunstan, Sinclair, Lonie etc and others like Acres, Ross need time. We were confident enough in him after one season to sign him til the end of 2018 so he's definitely got that!

He's also struggled to get fully fit. I'm sure he would have played a lot more this year if he weren't injured so often.

Fitness base, youth and injuries - vicious cycle - lack of continuity, other players have stepped in and so forth. Appreciate the insight, gents Think he'll be a gem for you guys in the years ahead (along with those blokes you mentioned)!

 

[SaintsSeptember]

We have some more pain before we can expect this rebuild to be over. There is still a number of older guys who will retire or be traded over the next two years and be replaced by drafted kids. At least two more years of building before the raise.

Not that many when you think about it.
Fisher 33 probably next year, Dempster 31 , Riewoldt 32, Gilbert 29, Montagna 31. ( not worried about replacing Farren Ray 29 ).

Fisher / Dempster / Gilbert ---- Goddard / Roberton / Delaney / ????? / Payne? ( we will pick up some others over the next few years and Gilbo may have more than 2 years left in him ). If we get Carlisle forget about any more rebuild in the backline , it will take care of itself.
Riewoldt has already moved further out from the goals to get a forward line without him functioning. Josh Bruce is no Riewoldt, but a Josh Bruce is a good thing to have in his own right, and he's been a piece of luck in our rebuild. We can hope we will be close to the mark with Bruce, Hickey, McCartin and Membrey.

I would be surprised if Montagna retired in the next 2 years. Small mid's seem to have the longest careers, and he'd make a handy forward pocket if the likes of Templeton , Loney, Mich , and Billings get into the midfield.

 

[The Punter]

Baldur brings up a good point, and the main problem with my assertion that we should be aiming for finals in 2017.

We have Fisher, Riewoldt, Dempster & Montagna all over 30 and going around again. Gilbert will be 30 before the end of next season.

We somehow have to stagger their retirements. Here's our 2002 old blokes:

Peckett (turned 30 in 2002) - retired in 2006 (4 more seasons)
Thompson (30) - 2007 (5)
Loewe (34) - 2002 (0)
Harvey (31) - 2008 (6)
Burke (32) - 2003 (1)

Three of those guys made it through the entire Grant Thomas era. Can Riewoldt, Montagna and Gilbert all still be going in 2019? Can any of them?

 

[Nutsngum]

Montagna has the biggest chance of being here in 4 years and I doubt he intends to retire before another flag tilt. Fancies himself a Crawford type I think.
If Roo didnt have a degenerative knee I would say he could as well 100% as he is just a freak athletically but Its stacked up against him although I dont think he really has much interest in retiring.
Gilbert has no chance with the injury run he has had so far and will start to catch up with him once he is past 30.

 

[Gunplay]

We have Fisher, Riewoldt, Dempster & Montagna all over 30 and going around again.

Personally I think we're in for a very rough time when those 4 retire.

 

[hayes]

I think we'll be fine without them. Fisher and Dempster are the two that need some replacements and quickly, those intercepting defenders are worth their weight in gold.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I think we'll be fine without them. Fisher and Dempster are the two that need some replacements and quickly, those intercepting defenders are worth their weight in gold.

Could be worth throwing Brown (Sandringham ) a rookie pick if no-one else gets him, though i guess Essendon will be after him for sure with Carlisle going.

 

[TassieSaint]

Baldur brings up a good point, and the main problem with my assertion that we should be aiming for finals in 2017.

We have Fisher, Riewoldt, Dempster & Montagna all over 30 and going around again. Gilbert will be 30 before the end of next season.

We somehow have to stagger their retirements. Here's our 2002 old blokes:

Peckett (turned 30 in 2002) - retired in 2006 (4 more seasons)
Thompson (30) - 2007 (5)
Loewe (34) - 2002 (0)
Harvey (31) - 2008 (6)
Burke (32) - 2003 (1)

Three of those guys made it through the entire Grant Thomas era. Can Riewoldt, Montagna and Gilbert all still be going in 2019? Can any of them?

I've always had issues with the assertion that you have to replace your entire team in a rebuild. Look through the recent successful rebuilds and very few get rid of the everyone. Our 2000 onwards rebuild is case in point, Thompson, Peckett, Harvey all around for our 04/05 run.

 

[The Punter]

I wasn't necessarily talking about like for like replacement. Bruce kicked 50 goals this year, Armo & Steven 1-2 in the B&F with Roberton and Newnes not for behind. Plenty to like, but it's been 3 years since we won without Riewoldt in the team.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I wasn't necessarily talking about like for like replacement. Bruce kicked 50 goals this year, Armo & Steven 1-2 in the B&F with Roberton and Newnes not for behind. Plenty to like, but it's been 3 years since we won without Riewoldt in the team.

When he plays nearly every game , its hard to win without him.
Its only dumb luck that Dempster and Steven don't have the same statistic.

What it means is that Nick has been pretty fit, playing 60 games over the last three seasons and that our other players who have been automatic selections over that time
( Fisher : 34 games injuries , Gilbert : 26 games injuries , Geary : 48 broken bone , Armitage : 57 knee infection ).
The rest of the players have not had a permanent role over that 3 year period.

You can similarly say that Stkilda didn't win a game without Andrew McQualter, between 2009 and 2010.
Or without Nick DalSanto between 2004 and the game in 2008 when he was famously dropped. ( wow we somehow won without him ).

 

[Michael Scarn]

No players in the under-22 team is a wake up call. Long way to go

 

[Choomah]

No players in the under-22 team is a wake up call. Long way to go

Doesn't mean s**t

 

[AuntieBarrels]

Doesn't mean s**t

Well yeah it doesn't mean much... but it does show where some of our players are at.

However, I also believe the team is bullshit, I would definitely have Newnes in there, and would choose Longer over Grundy (maybe im biased but I honestly rate him higher than Brodie).

 

[Nutsngum]

Its a fan voted list and football fans are dumbest sonsofbitches around.

 

[Choomah]

Well yeah it doesn't mean much... but it does show where some of our players are at.

However, I also believe the team is bullshit, I would definitely have Newnes in there, and would choose Longer over Grundy (maybe im biased but I honestly rate him higher than Brodie).

They chucked Wines and a few others in after only 10 games

 

[The Punter]

Grundy gets a lot of disposals and tackles compared to Longer. Having said that before this year Longer had had five 10+ disposal games, and this year he had six, including a run of five straight late in the year. So he's tracking nicely.

The more egregious selection was Adam Saad over Jack Newnes. But the AFLPA also announced on Tuesday that they though Shannon Hurn was a better captain than Nick Riewoldt, so take those results with the entirety of the Geelong Salt Works.

 

[Loyal Sainter]

Was thinking about our younger group.
How many have the potential to be

A Graders:

Billings
McCartin
Goddard
Lonie
Sinclair
Acres
Bruce

B Graders:

McKenzie
Dunstan
Savage
Newnes
Roberton
Longer
Membrey
Webster
Ross

C Graders:

Weller
Minchington
Hickey
Wright
Templeton

?????

Saunders
Markworth
Siposs
Murdoch
White
Pierce
Curren
Lee

Add Webster and Longer to the potential A graders. They're both going to be brilliant in a few years.

 

[Saintbloke]

Add Webster and Longer to the potential A graders. They're both going to be brilliant in a few years.

Webster will only get better, though as a defender needs to play a lot closer to his man when he hasn't got the ball, as do some of our other defenders..one of the reasons the opposition run and carry players damage us so much. Longer to me is VFL quality right now, and unless he can really improve his general contested marking around the ground and use his body better, then Hickey is way in front at the moment.

 

[Loyal Sainter]

Webster will only get better, though as a defender needs to play a lot closer to his man when he hasn't got the ball, as do some of our other defenders..one of the reasons the opposition run and carry players damage us so much. Longer to me is VFL quality right now, and unless he can really improve his general contested marking around the ground and use his body better, then Hickey is way in front at the moment.

He will. I've got a good feeling about Billy

 

[Michael Scarn]

Doesn't mean s**t

I think it clearly does mean something. For a rebuilding club, one thing i'd love to see is a few young guns in that team, and more than 1 rising star nom. I'm not saying we aren't on the right track, but it shows the reality that we have a long way to go.

 

[sverik25]

Longer did average 29 hitouts per game to Grundy's 24 though.

 

[FoochPackage]

How do you guys see your re-build taking place? How many years before your back in the top 4 ? Im thinking 3 years. Both our clubs have an exciting 10 years ahead.

 

[HaynePlane]

Webster will only get better, though as a defender needs to play a lot closer to his man when he hasn't got the ball, as do some of our other defenders..one of the reasons the opposition run and carry players damage us so much. Longer to me is VFL quality right now, and unless he can really improve his general contested marking around the ground and use his body better, then Hickey is way in front at the moment.

Sorry mate but Longer is not VFL and is in fact quite a way in front of Hickey, will be an A grader.

 

[felsty]

No players in the under-22 team is a wake up call. Long way to go

Are you for real? 1. Its fan voted so of course players from clubs with greater followers i.e. Collingwood, Hawks are going to have players picked and 2. Players are nominated for it for their popularity not whether they are the best in their positions. Its a media driven PR stunt not the Under 22 AAs FFS

 

[Michael Scarn]

Are you for real? 1. Its fan voted so of course players from clubs with greater followers i.e. Collingwood, Hawks are going to have players picked and 2. Players are nominated for it for their popularity not whether they are the best in their positions. Its a media driven PR stunt not the Under 22 AAs FFS

Who should we have had in it if it were an AA under 22 team?