The breakaway league.

[crazywildhorse]

Its not as simple as that, the skills dont transfer that easily. We would never lose aussie rules players directly to soccer because they weren't bought up playing soccer and simply wont crack into the big leagues as big players. Elite soccer players could kick a soccer ball into a wheelie bin at age 6. On either foot. The weaving and dribbling and general field positioning and reading the play isnt something you can just decide to adopt then expect to make it as one of the elites earning millions a year, regardless of your athleticism.

Its the next few generations that will decide the outcome here.

I, for one, was the third generation aussie rules footballer. Grew up with it, could kick sweet banana goals from 20 out at age 10. Total one eyed aussie rules supporter, go to every game.

That said, my 10 year old son is now a dedicated soccer player. Not saying he is a sure thing, but the ceiling is much higher so that is what I encouraged him to play. Always have a soccer ball in the living room. He loves it.

Soccer is a bit deceptive as far as wages go. The proportion of players making money is much lower than the Messi's et. al. would suggest. I forget where I heard the stat, but the AFL rewards lesser players far more than most team sports.

Having said all that, I responded to suggest that your footer makes the most sense for a new AFL. We need to probably lose at least 4 teams. But that is not going to happen... unless there was some kind of breakaway

 

[crazywildhorse]

Not sticking up for our West Aussie brothers but, keep in mind, Perth truly is the most isolated city in the world. Get that, there is no city in the world more isolated to other places than Perth. Look on a map, big ocean to west of them, virtually nothing north except big stretch of oceans and small regional cities with Darwin long away and Adelaide over the Nullabor and between Darwin , Perth and Adelaide mostly desert type regions. Melbourne seems another world away if you ever travelled over there. I was over the just one weekend and could feel the sense of isolation. Beautiful place all the same. Really like it there but also can feel a true sense of isolation not just from other places in Australia but the rest of the world. Think what that does to your mental make up as a kid and might start to understand why the tendency for chip on shoulder if most of your life you lived over there and many other West Aussies will tell you the big bad arrogant people live over on the East Coast some of it will sink in as some kind of truth. It is just the way many think. Not accurate of reality but how many brought up. It is more amazing when you find the open minded West Aussies and there are many of them too. At one stage West Australia wanted to become their own nation. No bullshit so that sense of them against the big bad East Coast is deeply ingrained for many over many generations. It is fascinating how it plays out in posts here. Sometime it gets tiresome to hear the same nonsense over and over but I can understand how many get to think that way.

I, as a legitimate Western Australian, agree wholeheartedly with everything in this post.

 

[krisholio14]

Not sticking up for our West Aussie brothers but, keep in mind, Perth truly is the most isolated city in the world. Get that, there is no city in the world more isolated to other places than Perth. Look on a map, big ocean to west of them, virtually nothing north except big stretch of oceans and small regional cities with Darwin long away and Adelaide over the Nullabor and between Darwin , Perth and Adelaide mostly desert type regions. Melbourne seems another world away if you ever travelled over there. I was over the just one weekend and could feel the sense of isolation. Beautiful place all the same. Really like it there but also can feel a true sense of isolation not just from other places in Australia but the rest of the world. Think what that does to your mental make up as a kid and might start to understand why the tendency for chip on shoulder if most of your life you lived over there and many other West Aussies will tell you the big bad arrogant people live over on the East Coast some of it will sink in as some kind of truth. It is just the way many think. Not accurate of reality but how many brought up. It is more amazing when you find the open minded West Aussies and there are many of them too. At one stage West Australia wanted to become their own nation. No bullshit so that sense of them against the big bad East Coast is deeply ingrained for many over many generations. It is fascinating how it plays out in posts here. Sometime it gets tiresome to hear the same nonsense over and over but I can understand how many get to think that way.

I had to live there for a year. Loved the city, just don't open your mouth. They can pick a Victorian from a mile away.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

What is it with Sandgropers? Talk about chip on their shoulders.

They always seem to conveniently forget that their comp was even more broke than the VFL was, and needed the money a national competition would bring just as much as we did.

At the time the Eagles and Bears came along, I actually drew up a proposal for a full national competition with all new teams playing over and above the State leagues. The thing I didn't fully understand at the time is that if it had been done that way, many of the local clubs in every league (including Geelong), would not have lasted long. We would have wound up with a VFA like scenario where they went from a 24 team league to 9 within 10 years, mainly because the Swans moving to Sydney not only took the first step to a national comp, but it also gave the VFL consistent Sunday footy, thereby stealing the VFA's major selling point. Of those 15 clubs that left the comp, only two survived as going concerns and are playing in the top division of their current competition today (Mordialloc, Berwick). Most are either gone completely (Sunshine, Camberwell, Brunswick, Dandenong, Caulfield, Moorabbin, Northcote), merged with other local clubs (Geelong West, Waverley, Yarraville), somewhat exist but are now unrecognizable (Oakleigh) or are scrubbing around in the lower reaches of a league (Kilsyth, Prahran, who have also merged two different times) Even since the VFA went belly up, Preston is basically now gone, Springvale has moved to Cranny and Box Hill is firmly entrenched as Hawthorn reserves.

I mention all this because I keep hearing about how these rotten Victorians ruined football for everyone, when I can tell you that the average supporter here suffered just as much as anyone else. Though at a lower standard, at least WAFL and SANFL supporters have still been able to go down to their suburban grounds and watch their teams play like always. As a Geelong supporter, I've been fortunate in that I can still go to the old ground and watch a game. As for the other teams bar Melbourne, for years they didn't have that option. That has changed a little recently for some teams, but then some of the grounds AFL clubs have returned VFL sides to recently are barely recognizable from the glory days. Outers are gone and stands demolished, replaced by parks and fitness centres etc. While it's better than nothing, it's still not the same. Certainly not when I go to Adelaide and watch a game at the Parade, or Prospect, or even Alberton. I went to WAFL games at Leederville and Claremont while I lived there briefly. These grounds still retain most if not all of their old character, even with some recent additions. It's why I always try to get over for a game in Adelaide every year. I love standing on the terrace in front of the can bar just like it used to be. You cannot do that in Victoria anymore at state level.

The game I knew in this state when I went to my first match in 1977 is barely recognizable. Two Victorian teams are gone, and so are their grounds (certainly as far as football goes a la East Perth), Only a third of the old VFA I used to watch still exists in anything vaguely resembling it in it's heyday, and only two grounds I used to go to watch footy at are still in use at senior AFL level, and of the other VFL/VFA grounds, only 6 or seven out of more than 30 grounds still have the character of old and/or are being used at all for State level footy.

I am very much Victorian, and I can promise you, the VFL didn't represent the wants or likes of supporters like me then, and the AFL doesn't now. I am fortunate in that I have taken an interest in other State leagues from a very young age, so I am not one of those supporters who thinks anything outside the VFL is insignificant. So I refuse to cop this idea that it was Victoria and Victorians that came along and destroyed everyone elses comps, when no State or rusted on supporters had to go through more upheaval and loss than those in Victoria.

Having said all this, I am glad that the national comp has come about. All things considered, the overall carnage could have been much worse that it has been, and we won't have situations in future where we don't get to see gun players from other states at their best week in week out. Which means no more missing out on the overall careers of players like Barrie Robran, Stephen Michael, Brian Peake, Russell Ebert and Graham Cornes. We get to enjoy all the great players from start to finish nowdays, no seeing them late in their careers, or for a season or two, or not at all and that's the main thing for me.

I think you will find if you read my posts that I lay the blame for the WA football set up fairly and squarely with the WA administration at the time not Victorians.
The VFL saw the big picture and WA was in to big a hurry to join in, they should of held out to protect their great clubs. The clubs were weak also as they got a $200'000 bribe to vote for a franchise which none of them wanted. But that money eased some pain at the time and no one was looking long term.
You mentioned the VFA and as you said it is apples and oranges in comparison. A better comparison would be that our Sunday League went broke also and all those clubs are now filtered in the amateur league through grades D up to A.
Of course everyone has made some sacrifice but Victorians still have their number 1 supported team in the big league, the rest of Australia which is a hell of a lot of people had to find a new team to support if they wanted to watch and support the top tier. Just think about that for a second just how many people have changed clubs just to support top tier footy. And before you ask yes we were watching 1st tier footy up until 1987 in the WAFL.

 

[pinot]

Soccer is a bit deceptive as far as wages go. The proportion of players making money is much lower than the Messi's et. al. would suggest. I forget where I heard the stat, but the AFL rewards lesser players far more than most team sports.

Having said all that, I responded to suggest that your footer makes the most sense for a new AFL. We need to probably lose at least 4 teams. But that is not going to happen... unless there was some kind of breakaway

Good soccer players can play in third tier clubs in England and make 200,000 pounds per year at minimum. Average players in good clubs earn in excess of 500,000 pounds.

Soccer players have more opportunity - these are the current Australian players plying their trade overseas http://www.ozfootball.net/ark/Abroad/2015-12.html

There are enough players here to make an additional 10 A league clubs.

AFL is different and don't like to draw comparisons but AFL should learn that any competition the density in talent is crucial to its success.

This is not what is happening the talent pool is poor and its time to give the development phase to clubs.

Strong state league clubs should develop players and be financially compensated for that development if any fat cat club wants that youngster.

what is happening the AFL is taking that youngster for nothing for free albeit the AFL never developed the kid.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Good soccer players can play in third tier clubs in England and make 200,000 pounds per year at minimum. Average players in good clubs earn in excess of 500,000 pounds.

Soccer players have more opportunity - these are the current Australian players plying their trade overseas http://www.ozfootball.net/ark/Abroad/2015-12.html

There are enough players here to make an additional 10 A league clubs.

AFL is different and don't like to draw comparisons but AFL should learn that any competition the density in talent is crucial to its success.

This is not what is happening the talent pool is poor and its time to give the development phase to clubs.

Strong state league clubs should develop players and be financially compensated for that development if any fat cat club wants that youngster.

what is happening the AFL is taking that youngster for nothing for free albeit the AFL never developed the kid.

This is a good point, the state league clubs already do most of the development but get given peanuts for their efforts.
In fact they get given a scale as per the amount of AFL games the player plays which is just crazy.
I don't know what the set fee should be but it should be a set fee payable immediately after player drafted, all risk then passes to AFL club. Whether player players none or 100 games should not be relevant to the state league club.

 

[Tigersman]

Its not as simple as that, the skills dont transfer that easily. We would never lose aussie rules players directly to soccer because they weren't bought up playing soccer and simply wont crack into the big leagues as big players. Elite soccer players could kick a soccer ball into a wheelie bin at age 6. On either foot. The weaving and dribbling and general field positioning and reading the play isnt something you can just decide to adopt then expect to make it as one of the elites earning millions a year, regardless of your athleticism.

Its the next few generations that will decide the outcome here.

I, for one, was the third generation aussie rules footballer. Grew up with it, could kick sweet banana goals from 20 out at age 10. Total one eyed aussie rules supporter, go to every game.

That said, my 10 year old son is now a dedicated soccer player. Not saying he is a sure thing, but the ceiling is much higher so that is what I encouraged him to play. Always have a soccer ball in the living room. He loves it.

That's my point

 

[jatz14]

Couldn't find a thread about this, I suspect it's there somewhere?

Anyway, I think this is going to have to happen if we want to see the game develop.

The AFL is stuck. The way they handle controversy has been suspect, there is inconsistency in dealing with equalisation, and the formula has become tiresome, to name a few things.

Rugby League had it, and despite a number of years of struggle, seem to be finally bouncing back. NFL had it, and it has been fundamental to creating one of the most equal and balanced leagues in the world.

Ideally a breakaway would involve all the current clubs disregarding the current AFL administration, but with the AFL propping up a number of clubs, it would be unlikely to go that way.

All that is to say I don't believe the current AFL administration has what it takes to lead the game to the next level. Something needs to change.

Most of the issues people have with the AFL relate to its attempts to control the comp and the media narrative.

If a break away comp was more professional, it would be more professional in doing the things people do not like the AFL doing.

It would be a concentrated version of everything wrong with the AFL.

Also, half a national league is not half as valuable as the national league.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Good soccer players can play in third tier clubs in England and make 200,000 pounds per year at minimum. Average players in good clubs earn in excess of 500,000 pounds.

Soccer players have more opportunity - these are the current Australian players plying their trade overseas http://www.ozfootball.net/ark/Abroad/2015-12.html

There are enough players here to make an additional 10 A league clubs.

AFL is different and don't like to draw comparisons but AFL should learn that any competition the density in talent is crucial to its success.

This is not what is happening the talent pool is poor and its time to give the development phase to clubs.

Strong state league clubs should develop players and be financially compensated for that development if any fat cat club wants that youngster.

what is happening the AFL is taking that youngster for nothing for free albeit the AFL never developed the kid.

I'm not sure that they really do have more opportunities. I would bet more money is paid to Australian's playing Australin Football then soccer and by a fair margin as well.

 

[jatz14]

Good soccer players can play in third tier clubs in England and make 200,000 pounds per year at minimum. Average players in good clubs earn in excess of 500,000 pounds.

Soccer players have more opportunity - these are the current Australian players plying their trade overseas http://www.ozfootball.net/ark/Abroad/2015-12.html

There are enough players here to make an additional 10 A league clubs.

AFL is different and don't like to draw comparisons but AFL should learn that any competition the density in talent is crucial to its success.

This is not what is happening the talent pool is poor and its time to give the development phase to clubs.

Strong state league clubs should develop players and be financially compensated for that development if any fat cat club wants that youngster.

what is happening the AFL is taking that youngster for nothing for free albeit the AFL never developed the kid.

The money the average players get in the top leagues are ridiculous, however you realise a large portion of the players in that list are not playing in the top leagues. They are playing in lesser leagues, and often not in the top division of those leagues. Here is a list of the top average wages by comp http://screamer.deadspin.com/chart-the-average-player-salaries-in-soccer-leagues-ar-1658856283 it is a little old but you get the gist.

The A league sits at 29. Almost half the players on that list play in leagues that do not even make the list. So quite a few are getting huge salaries, quite a few are getting less than they would get in the A league (perhaps some one playing Div 2 in Thailand does it because they know they will never get a spot in the A league)?

So the average wage on that list might be higher than the AFL, due to the huge wages at the top, but I would bet a lot that the median wage on that list is a lot less.

 

[crazywildhorse]

The money the average players get in the top leagues are ridiculous, however you realise a large portion of the players in that list are not playing in the top leagues. They are playing in lesser leagues, and often not in the top division of those leagues. Here is a list of the top average wages by comp http://screamer.deadspin.com/chart-the-average-player-salaries-in-soccer-leagues-ar-1658856283 it is a little old but you get the gist.

The A league sits at 29. Almost half the players on that list play in leagues that do not even make the list. So quite a few are getting huge salaries, quite a few are getting less than they would get in the A league (perhaps some one playing Div 2 in Thailand does it because they know they will never get a spot in the A league)?

So the average wage on that list might be higher than the AFL, due to the huge wages at the top, but I would bet a lot that the median wage on that list is a lot less.

It's crazy how much money goes into the AFL when contrasting it to Soccer. We have 10 million people actively interested in AFL? Soccer is 4 - 5 billion?

 

[pinot]

The money the average players get in the top leagues are ridiculous, however you realise a large portion of the players in that list are not playing in the top leagues. They are playing in lesser leagues, and often not in the top division of those leagues. Here is a list of the top average wages by comp http://screamer.deadspin.com/chart-the-average-player-salaries-in-soccer-leagues-ar-1658856283 it is a little old but you get the gist.

The A league sits at 29. Almost half the players on that list play in leagues that do not even make the list. So quite a few are getting huge salaries, quite a few are getting less than they would get in the A league (perhaps some one playing Div 2 in Thailand does it because they know they will never get a spot in the A league)?

So the average wage on that list might be higher than the AFL, due to the huge wages at the top, but I would bet a lot that the median wage on that list is a lot less.

Don't forget the currency is listed in pounds and the current exchange rate is 2:1. the nominal numbers actually double when converted to AUD

A league is $150k p/a
Premier League is $5 mln p/a

Making $250k-300k playing sports for a living in Norway or Sweden sounds quite nice! You get bored.. go to Netherlands and make $500k.. or Japan wherever.

..and that's just to be an average player representing the competition.

 

[Tigersman]

I think those in charge have forgotten that the league is supposed to be a "not for profit" organization.

It's sole purpose is meant to be to promote and grow the game.

Given how little money (if any) trickles through to local football and yet the league has their hand out for government funding every year, while raking in billion dollar plus tv deals, I think the most likely engine for change would be government intervention.

 

[The_Wookie]

It's sole purpose is meant to be to promote and grow the game.

No its not. And it never was.

Its first stated purpose is to operate the Australian Football League. Promote and encourage the "Australian National Game of Football" is second. Theres a further 8 pages that outline league purposes and objectives in the 1993 Memorandum of Association.

Amongst its objects is to "carry on the business of a radio or tv station for the purpose of broadcasting Australian football" and to "acquire, print and publish newspapers, periodicals" etc.

 

[Tigersman]

No its not. And it never was.

Its first stated purpose is to operate the Australian Football League. Promote and encourage the "Australian National Game of Football" is second. Theres a further 8 pages that outline league purposes and objectives in the 1993 Memorandum of Association.

Amongst its objects is to "carry on the business of a radio or tv station for the purpose of broadcasting Australian football" and to "acquire, print and publish newspapers, periodicals" etc.

Perhaps "sole purpose" is over the top.
My point was that governing the game as a whole is certainly the AFLs responsibility.
Even more now than ever given they have taken over football in Victoria. They are in the process of taking over country football (VCFL)as well.

What's good for football at local level is not always aligned with the goals of the AFL.
There is now no independent voice to push for state and local football.

 

[sydney eagle]

Sure. But why don't I see Port Adelaide's 30+ premiership in AFL/VFL history? Or maybe Subiaco?

Ohh that's right. There wouldn't be an AFL without the Victorian teams. Silly.

It used to be a Victorian league, but then Fremantle, West Coast, Sydney and Adelaide came running to get in on it.

In case no-one else has mentioned in it ,Sydney Swans were a VICTORIAN team that was moved to Sydney when they looked as if they would die in Melbourne. They didn't "come running" to join the AFL, they were already in the VFL.

 

[The_Reaper]

Can't happen. The league effectively owns all the clubs. They can't just walk away.

A new league with new clubs yes, but stadia would be a big hurdle. The AFL has them all locked away.

Not Adelaide Oval and the new Perth Stadium

 

[madmug]

I had to live there for a year. Loved the city, just don't open your mouth. They can pick a Victorian from a mile away.

Well as the old saying goes, 'you can always tell a Victorian, you just cant tell them very much'

 

[Colonial]

Sure. But why don't I see Port Adelaide's 30+ premiership in AFL/VFL history? Or maybe Subiaco?

Ohh that's right. There wouldn't be an AFL without the Victorian teams. Silly.

It used to be a Victorian league, but then Fremantle, West Coast, Sydney and Adelaide came running to get in on it.

Sydney??? Bahaha ooook

 

[krisholio14]

Well as the old saying goes, 'you can always tell a Victorian, you just cant tell them very much'

What's there to tell? We are omnipotent!

 

[Marley10]

Sydney??? Bahaha ooook

Fine maybe not Sydney, but the others certainly did.

 

[Papa G]

I had to live there for a year. Loved the city, just don't open your mouth. They can pick a Victorian from a mile away.

It's your shocking accents. The A and the E thing does my head in.