The Terrorism Files - 2015, 2016

[Lethality]

If Hitler wanted to eliminate Christianity he wouldn't have set up a German Christian church or allowed the operation of the catholic church in Rome.

Why not? Italy was an ally and Hitler's goal was always the gradual elimination of Christianity, not a blunt confrontation with it.

“…the only way of getting rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.” -AH

Because your being humiliated?

That doesn't even make sense.

 

[Elroo]

Why not? Italy was an ally and Hitler's goal was always the gradual elimination of Christianity, not a blunt confrontation with it.

“…the only way of getting rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.” -AH

That doesn't even make sense.

The Germans had the chance to wipe out the Roman Church in the Vatican city post the 1943 Italian surrender but didn't as they were Christians committing genocide in the name of, in their views the Christian god.

It doesn't make sense that you're being humiliated???

the only way of getting rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.” -AH

I noticed you have fallen back onto the old lines rolled out by the Christian mafia who are trying to run with the line that Hitler and the Nazi's were atheists.

You might want to read Mein Kampf specially pages; 65, 116, 152, 161, 174, 307, 383, 403, 562, 565, 622 & 632-633; plus see his many public speeches in which he espoused his and Nazism's support of Christianity and belief that their battles and murders were done in the name of god.

 

[Lethality]

The Germans had the chance to wipe out the Roman Church in the Vatican city post the 1943 Italian surrender but didn't as they were Christians committing genocide in the name of, in their views the Christian god.

That doesn't even touch my argument. You would need to provide something to show that Hitler didn't want to see the end of Christianity. Christian collaboration doesn't do that.

It doesn't make sense that you're being humiliated???

It doesn't make sense as an explanation for bemusement on the position that Nazism was not a Christian regime.

I noticed you have fallen back onto the old lines rolled out by the Christian mafia

Your association with the Christian Mafia doesn't concern me, the facts can be judged on their merits. Hitler saw Christianity as a Jewish invention and wanted to see the end of it. His collaboration with the Roman Catholic Church doesn't deny that.

You might want to read Mein Kampf specially pages; 65, 116, 152, 161, 174, 307, 383, 403, 562, 565, 622 & 632-633; plus see his many public speeches in which he espoused his and Nazism's support of Christianity and belief that their battles and murders were done in the name of god.

LOL, Mein Kampf is propaganda, it's amusing that you submit this as actual evidence of belief.
His public speeches also savage Christianity. His support doesn't show anything other than that he is willing to use Christianity for a while. His end game however was the end of classical theology and himself as a religious figure.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Yeah they do, the point was even made by Muslim apologists in this thread that we condone Saudi Arabia doing the same thing. That's one example of a Muslim state doing the same s**t as ISIS.

But the Saudis ARE the ones exporting this Wahhabist s**t. That's their sect. As for 'Muslim apologist' as a term - how would you define it? Are people like me, who differentiate between mainstream/moderate Muslims and their extremist brethren 'apologists'?

Is being an 'apologist' necessarily a negative thing?

 

[Lethality]

But the Saudis ARE the ones exporting this Wahhabist s**t. That's their sect.

So you're saying no other Muslims but Wahhabists?

Are people like me, who differentiate between mainstream/moderate Muslims and their extremist brethren 'apologists'?

Is being an 'apologist' necessarily a negative thing?

Yeah it's a bad thing when you have misinformation and justification for violence which we see too often even by moderates.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

So you're saying no other Muslims but Wahhabists?

Islamic State, or Daesh, seems to be the biggest group exporting terror. They morphed into that group from the remnants of Al Qaeda in Iraq. Al Qaeda was born in Saudi Arabia.

Of course you have jihadi groups in other nations such as the Indonesian Jemaah Islamiyah (the ones behind the 2002 Bali bombings) who morphed from an anti-Dutch/anti-colonial resistance movement called Negara Islam but then later affiliated with al-Qaeda as the plan for global jihad got underway.

Following the money trail of these groups, most of it comes from private Saudi or Gulf State hands. Much of it seems untraceable.

 

[Lethality]

Islamic State, or Daesh, seems to be the biggest group exporting terror. They morphed into that group from the remnants of Al Qaeda in Iraq. Al Qaeda was born in Saudi Arabia.

Of course you have jihadi groups in other nations such as the Indonesian Jemaah Islamiyah (the ones behind the 2002 Bali bombings) who morphed from an anti-Dutch/anti-colonial resistance movement called Negara Islam but then later affiliated with al-Qaeda as the plan for global jihad got underway.

Following the money trail of these groups, most of it comes from private Saudi or Gulf State hands. Much of it seems untraceable.

So plenty of other Muslims do that kind of s**t.

 

[Elroo]

That doesn't even touch my argument. You would need to provide something to show that Hitler didn't want to see the end of Christianity. Christian collaboration doesn't do that.



It doesn't make sense as an explanation for bemusement on the position that Nazism was not a Christian regime.



Your association with the Christian Mafia doesn't concern me, the facts can be judged on their merits. Hitler saw Christianity as a Jewish invention and wanted to see the end of it. His collaboration with the Roman Catholic Church doesn't deny that.



LOL, Mein Kampf is propaganda, it's amusing that you submit this as actual evidence of belief.
His public speeches also savage Christianity. His support doesn't show anything other than that he is willing to use Christianity for a while. His end game however was the end of classical theology and himself as a religious figure.

That doesn't even touch my argument. You would need to provide something to show that Hitler didn't want to see the end of Christianity. Christian collaboration doesn't do that.

I don't have to provide anything; you're the poster who claimed Hitler was an atheist and established an atheist state in Germany and wanted to wipe our all religion. When you are challenged on this you delfect and refuse to provide proof; what is you say; those that know agree with you? FFS

It doesn't make sense as an explanation for bemusement on the position that Nazism was not a Christian regime.

You've been humiliated on this and many other subjects.

Your association with the Christian Mafia doesn't concern me, the facts can be judged on their merits.

Christianity and especially the catholic mafia's merits; FFS hiding the rape of children, condoning and supporting the murder of non-believers for starters.

Hitler saw Christianity as a Jewish invention and wanted to see the end of it. His collaboration with the Roman Catholic Church doesn't deny that.

He did nothing of the sort, he supported the Catholic Church's and signed a treaty with it in 1933; the Reichskonkordat.

He also supported the Catholic Church's view of over 1500 years that the Jews were a pestilent that should be put into ghetto's and that he was doing Christianity a service by dealing with the Jews.

LOL, Mein Kampf is propaganda, it's amusing that you submit this as actual evidence of belief.

Yep lets attack the book that set's out Hitlers belief in God as it destroys the nut bag Christians argument that he wanted an atheist Germany.

His public speeches also savage Christianity. His support doesn't show anything other than that he is willing to use Christianity for a while. His end game however was the end of classical theology and himself as a religious figure

Hitlers and other top Nazi speeches along with his book and his establishing of a treaty with the catholic church along with his actions in allowing the church to remain in place show he was not an atheists and Nazi Germany wasn't an atheist nation.

Hitlers final aim was the conquest of the world by God's master race the Aryans, and the elimination and or subjugation of so called sub-human races such as the jews.

 

[Lethality]

I don't have to provide anything;

You do, but you can't. That quote was another example.

You've been humiliated on this and many other subjects.

Well you're wrong about Hitler so it's no surprise you're wrong about this too.

Christianity and especially the catholic mafia's merits

You won't get anywhere by going the man, I'm not interested in your beef with the Catholic church.

He did nothing of the sort, he supported the Catholic Church's and signed a treaty with it in 1933; the Reichskonkordat.

Again, this doesn't disprove that he collaborated with them and that his endgame was the extinction of Christianity. That was a political treaty and recognised as such.

Yep lets attack the book that set's out Hitlers belief in God as it destroys the nut bag Christians argument that he wanted an atheist Germany.

LOL, no let's attack it because it's propaganda . . . Well done on defending Mein Kampf, I guess that's another example of where your ridiculous position has painted you into a corner.

Hitlers and other top Nazi speeches along with his book and his establishing of a treaty with the catholic church along with his actions in allowing the church to remain in place show he was not an atheists and Nazi Germany wasn't an atheist nation.

No it doesn't, it shows that the Catholic church had ties to fascism, but it does not prove that Nazi Germany was not atheist. I'm open to actual proof but you have not provided a shred of it.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

So plenty of other Muslims do that kind of s**t.

Nowhere NEAR enough to demonise them all. But them you're not actually full of hate for all of them, are you? You just take exception to the hardliners?

 

[Elroo]

You do, but you can't. That quote was another example.



Well you're wrong about Hitler so it's no surprise you're wrong about this too.



You won't get anywhere by going the man, I'm not interested in your beef with the Catholic church.



Again, this doesn't disprove that he collaborated with them and that his endgame was the extinction of Christianity.

LOL, no let's attack it because it's propaganda . . . Well done on defending Mein Kampf, I guess that's another example of where your ridiculous position has painted you into a corner.

No it doesn't, it shows that he the Catholic church had ties to fascism, but it does not prove that Nazi Germany was not atheist. I'm open to actual proof but you have not provided a shred of it.

You do, but you can't. That quote was another example.

I don't, you made claims about Nazi Germany and refuse to provide any evidence; usual rubbish from a religous nutcase.

Well you're wrong about Hitler so it's no surprise you're wrong about this too.

Poster on internet trying to re-write history about senior figures in a regime said over 60 years because it makes their religous beliefs looks bad!

Again, this doesn't disprove that he collaborated with them and that his endgame was the extinction of Christianity.

You've been shown to be wrong on numerous occasions and when requested to provide evidence you don't.

You won't get anywhere by going the man, I'm not interested in your beef with the Catholic church.

Understandable since their beliefs were solidly in-line with the Nazi's for centuries prior to Hitler running with them.

Again, this doesn't disprove that he collaborated with them and that his endgame was the extinction of Christianity.

Hitlers end game once again and Iii type this slowly was the establishment of an Aryan nation conquering all sub-humans in the name of god. Hitler and other senior Nazi's such as Himmler made speeches about how the Nazi's were doing what they were doing in god's name; treating the jews as a pestilence just like the churches had for centuries.

LOL, no let's attack it because it's propaganda . . . Well done on defending Mein Kampf, I guess that's another example of where your ridiculous position has painted you into a corner.

Yes lets ignore every single page in Hitlers books, his speeches, other top Nazi speeches as it counters your statement that he and other Nazi's wanted an atheist nation!

No it doesn't, it shows that he the Catholic church had ties to fascism, but it does not prove that Nazi Germany was not atheist. I'm open to actual proof but you have not provided a shred of it

You're the poster who claimed Germany was an atheist nation! When asked to provide evidence your response is well people know! FFS stop your self-immolation and admit you made a goose of yourself.

 

[Elroo]

So plenty of other Muslims do that kind of s**t.

And Christians so lets demonise all Christians.

 

[Lethality]

I don't, you made claims about Nazi Germany and refuse to provide any evidence; usual rubbish from a religous nutcase.

I'm an atheist . . .

You said I didn't provide evidence as though it's not freely available? All the assertions I made are verifiable.

Poster on internet trying to re-write history about senior figures in a regime said over 60 years because it makes their religous beliefs looks bad!

Once again, atheist, so I'm doing the reverse of what you are suggesting.

Hitlers end game once again and Iii type this slowly was the establishment of an Aryan nation conquering all sub-humans in the name of god.

Nope.

"When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let’s be the only people who are immunised against the disease.” - Adolf Hitler

“Christianity is the worst of the regressions that mankind can ever have undergone, and it’s the Jew who, thanks to this diabolic invention, has thrown him back fifteen centuries" - Adolf Hitler

Yes lets ignore every single page in Hitlers books, his speeches, other top Nazi speeches as it counters your statement that he and other Nazi's wanted an atheist nation!

Speeches prove that Hitler wanted to destroy Christianity, so there wouldn't be a need for me to ignore them even if I were biased in this. You're taking a manifesto at its literal word, and it's easy to see why, you have a beef with Catholicism. This is nothing more than confirmation bias at its finest.

 

[Lethality]

Nowhere NEAR enough to demonise them all. But them you're not actually full of hate for all of them, are you? You just take exception to the hardliners?

Plenty enough to demonise them all. 20% of Muslims agree with or enact suicide bombings. That's enough reason to be suspicious of a person based only on this particular faith.

But no, I take exception to the teachings, I think that's the root problem here.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

it does not prove that Nazi Germany was not atheist. I'm open to actual proof but you have not provided a shred of it.

If I may...

"This human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existence of a religious belief. The great masses of a nation are not composed of philosophers. For the masses of the people, especially faith is absolutely the only basis of a moral outlook on life. The various substitutes that have been offered have not shown any results that might warrant us in thinking that they might usefully replace the existing denominations..."

- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 10

and

"The fact that the Vatican is concluding a treaty with the new Germany means the acknowledgment of the National Socialist state by the Catholic Church. This treaty shows the whole world clearly and unequivocally that the assertion that National Socialism is hostile to religion is a lie. "

- Adolf Hitler, speech to members of the Nazi Party on the Nazi-Vatican Concordant, July 22, 1933

Ultimately, the National Socialist Party had the German Protestant Churches unite into a single entity to promote Nazi ideals within the religion.

http://www.britannica.com/topic/German-Christian#ref112965

German Christian, any of the Protestants who attempted to subordinate church policy to the political initiatives of the German Nazi Party. The German Christians’ Faith Movement, organized in 1932, was nationalistic and so anti-Semitic that extremists wished to repudiate the Old Testament (Hebrew Bible) and the Pauline Letters because of their Jewish authorship.

The movement acceded to the Nazi definition of a Jew based on the religion of his or her grandparents and to the racist principles embodied in the Nürnberg Laws of 1935. Thus, many practicing Christians whose families had converted a generation before were defined as Jews and excluded from the church.

In July 1933 the Protestant churches of the various German federal states merged to form the German Evangelical Church, and in September the German Christian candidate, Ludwig Müller, assumed leadership of the church as Reichsbischof (“Reich bishop”).

Müller’s efforts to make the church an instrument of Nazi policy were resisted by the Confessing Church, under the leadership of Martin Niemöller. After World War II the German Christian Church Party was banned...

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Plenty enough to demonise them all. 20% of Muslims agree with or enact suicide bombings. That's enough reason to be suspicious of a person based only on this particular faith.

But no, I take exception to the teachings, I think that's the root problem here.

20%? Were has this figure come from?

 

[Lethality]

If I may...

Ultimately, the National Socialist Party had the German Protestant Churches unite into a single entity to promote Nazi ideals within the religion.

Adolf Hitler openly admitted the concordant with the church was a stepping stone to power.

“It may be asked whether concluding a concordat with the churches wouldn’t facilitate our exercise of power…. I’m convinced that any pact with the Church can offer only a provisional benefit, for sooner or later the scientific spirit will disclose the harmful character of such a compromise. Thus the State will have based its existence on a foundation that one day will collapse" - AH

 

[Lethality]

20%? Were has this figure come from?

Pew and Gallop polls, and the most extreme Muslim nations refused to be polled so the figure would probably be higher.

20% is enough basis for distrust.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Adolf Hitler openly admitted the concordant with the church was a stepping stone to power.

“It may be asked whether concluding a concordat with the churches wouldn’t facilitate our exercise of power…. I’m convinced that any pact with the Church can offer only a provisional benefit, for sooner or later the scientific spirit will disclose the harmful character of such a compromise. Thus the State will have based its existence on a foundation that one day will collapse" - AH

The existing churches, yes. He was definitely using them as he'd used the Brownshirts during his rise to power. Once he became big enough he erased the S.A and the S.S became his darlings. The same fate would befall pre-existing Judeo-Christian churches and teachings.

He still had religious ideals while all of this was going on but despised the Judaic origins of Christianity. The steps to reform the German Evangelical Churches were a step towards dropping this history and rewriting it as per the Nazi worldview similar to the violent S.A/S.S 'transfer' of power after the Night of the Long Knives.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Pew and Gallop polls, and the most extreme Muslim nations refused to be polled so the figure would probably be higher.

20% is enough basis for distrust.

According to this Pew research article, dated December 7th, 2015;

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/

How do Muslims feel about groups like ISIS?

Recent surveys show that most people in several countries with significant Muslim populations have an unfavorable view of ISIS, including virtually all respondents in Lebanon and 94% in Jordan. Relatively small shares say they see ISIS favorably. In some countries, considerable portions of the population do not offer an opinion about ISIS, including a majority (62%) of Pakistanis.

Favorable views of ISIS are somewhat higher in Nigeria (14%) than most other nations. Among Nigerian Muslims, 20% say they see ISIS favorably (compared with 7% of Nigerian Christians). The Nigerian militant group Boko Haram, which has been conducting a terrorist campaign in the country for years, has sworn allegiance to ISIS.

More generally, Muslims mostly say that suicide bombings and other forms of violence against civilians in the name of Islam are rarely or never justified, including 92% in Indonesia and 91% in Iraq. In the United States, a 2011 survey found that 86% of Muslims say that such tactics are rarely or never justified. An additional 7% say suicide bombings are sometimes justified and 1% say they are often justified in these circumstances.

In a few countries, a quarter or more of Muslims say that these acts of violence are at least sometimes justified, including 40% in the Palestinian territories, 39% in Afghanistan, 29% in Egypt and 26% in Bangladesh.

In many cases, people in countries with large Muslim populations are as concerned as Western nations about the threat of Islamic extremism, and have become increasingly concerned in recent years. About two-thirds of people in Nigeria (68%) and Lebanon (67%) said earlier this year they are very concerned about Islamic extremism in their country, both up significantly since 2013...

That figure you presented of 20% seems a bit overblown. Terrorism against civilians is DEFINITELY a problem, don't get me wrong Hodgey, but lumping all Muslims in to the one pile as terrorists or terrorist enablers will definitely only alienate the existing moderates from the larger community, thus making the Jihadi's recruitment drives easier to conduct.

Hate and distrust can only work against us, mate. Never for us.

 

[Lethality]

According to this Pew research article, dated December 7th, 2015;

That's a poll on ISIS, not the same thing.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

That's a poll on ISIS, not the same thing.

The poll I lead with, yeah. But the article goes further

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/

More generally, Muslims mostly say that suicide bombings and other forms of violence against civilians in the name of Islam are rarely or never justified...

 

[Lethality]

The poll I lead with, yeah. But the article goes further

That poll shows 13.5% agree with it, not a small number, and it doesn't even count Muslims who agree that it is sometimes justified, since rarely justified is in the negative column. These are concerning figures.

 

[Hank Scorpion]

Might not technically be terrorism, but a 100-strong militia is scary enough to be worth mentioning:

The protesters occupied part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge near Burns after a march supporting Dwight and Steven Hammond, two ranchers who are convicted of arson.

"We will be here as long as it takes," said Ammon Bundy, a spokesman for the group. "We have no intentions of using force upon anyone, (but) if force is used against us, we would defend ourselves."

"We are using the wildlife refuge as a place for individuals across the United States to come and assist in helping the people of Harney County claim back their lands and resources," he said.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/03/us/oregon-wildlife-refuge-protest/index.html

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

That poll shows 13.5% agree with it, not a small number, and it doesn't even count Muslims who agree that it is sometimes justified, since rarely justified is in the negative column. These are concerning figures.

It's definitely higher than I'd like it to be. A crystal-clear definition of 'terrorism' is definitely useful going forward (in my opinon violence against civilians is never justified, though cases could be made for paramilitary-style guerrilla actions against a repressive regime's army, etc).

Still, no reason to demonise the religion especially being split as it is along the Sunni/Shia divide.