List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 7

[Lore]

Hello Tiger fans!

The embedded resources below are kept up to date by the trade board mods (as much as possible – we are human after all). Enjoy!

Spoiler: 2023 Draft Order

Spoiler: 2024 Draft Order, aka Future Picks

Spoiler: Blue Tick Rumours

tugga you may like to sticky or merge this post, move it to the start of the thread (so the sticky post doesn't rotate if a post is deleted before it), or copy it to your draft thread.

 

[tunksy]

Losing baker would suck. Good experience and leadership. But we can cover him on the half back line.

Hope they pay a fair price though. Would have to be a pick in the early teens or indeed what Schultz got last year

 

[RobsJourney]

Honestly don't see enough in JUH to warrant selling the farm, and that's exactly what we'd need to do to get him, at a time when we NEED to stock up on draftees before Tasmania takes over the draft. Our list has so many holes that splashing on an OK tall forward based mainly on potential would be a mistake. A very big mistake.

Provided 2024 isn't a crappy draft, it's going to be a big part of where we build our next premiership core, hopefully, as we're going to have a very big draft hand.

Let's assume this is our starting 22 in 2025...


Brown, Young, BP1
Vlastuin, Gibcus, Short
Clarke, Hopper, McIntosh
Bolton, Balta, Campbell
FP1, Lynch, FP2
Nankervis, Taranto, Ross
D. Rioli, Sonsie, McAuliffe, BENCH4


- First of all, on paper that's not looking great, the lack of genuine star kids coming through is a big worry, and the top-end-ish talent we have left in the above team (Vlastuin, Hopper (?), Lynch, Taranto, Nankervis, D. Rioli) will either be gone or nearly gone by the time the next wave of kids is ready. We have drafted very, very poorly.

- I'm assuming all of these will be gone at the end of 2024: Grimes (retire), Prestia (retire or free agent to Suns/Geelong), Dusty (Suns, 2nd round compensation ), Baker (late 1st round or two 2nd round picks), Graham (2nd or 3rd rounder), Pickett (unsure but I think he'll be gone), M. Rioli (delist), Dow (maybe delist or 1 year), Cumberland (delist), Ralphsmith (delist) and I might be forgetting one or two.

- It is possible we'll do a trade for Broad to Fremantle. He is contracted until 2025 so it could be a win-win for us and Freo.


On to the empty positions:

- BP1, this will likely start as either Trezise or Smith based on our current list, but not willing to name either of them as a lock for a starting 2025 spot. You probably wonder why McAuliffe gets into my starting 22 for 2025 having not played a game, and it's just because I have a very good feeling he'll be a good player.

- FP1, absolutely no idea who goes here. It might start as Coulthard if he is still on the list with a 1-year contract, but we'll need to draft a good kid, hopefully a medium forward like a Fritsch type. I wish it was Cumberland but I dunno if he's gonna make it. The Hopper trade hurts the most here, this position would have gone to Nate Caddy who would have been perfect for our needs and current list profile.

- FP2, same as above, but a quality small forward instead of a medium, someone with electric pace. Forgot Mansell up to this point, which doesn't say much for his prospects, but I guess he might start if he is still at the club.

- BENCH4, gun midfielder, plain and simple. No one on our list belongs here at the moment, maybe Dow if he gets a year will start in this spot, but it's looking grim.


In 2016 there were so many players we would have wanted to delist or trade for peanuts that ended up premiership guns in 2017, so I don't like making calls too soon, but I do feel we'll need upgrades on:

• Young (won't be good enough)
• Hopper (not good enough and will be too old by the time we're ready again)
• McIntosh (likely gone soon anyway, maybe another year)
• Lynch (will be gone soon you'd think)
• Ross (I personally like him but reckon we could use a quicker midfield)

In 2016 things looked dire but we had Riewoldt, Cotchin, Dusty, Rance, absolute generational guns of the AFL all in one team, and all with proper leadership qualities except maybe Dusty, and we had already solid players that fell off a bit in 2016 but became absolute guns after 2016 in Edwards, Houli, Vlastuin, Astbury, Grimes, Lambert, and I'm probably forgetting others, and to top it off we had the right age profile where they were all around the same age.

If you look at the potential starting 2025 team, instead of a core of the 4 guns above, we're building around Taranto, Bolton, and Gibcus. That's really it. It does not read in anywhere near the same stratosphere as it did post-2016. So it's not looking great.

But as history has shown, things can quickly turn around, if we draft a few good kids and then make the right trades around 2025 to 2027, we could very much shoot up again.

But yeah, NO to JUH for me (not that the choice is ours anymore), we need to invest heavily in the draft, fix up ALL lines in the 22 and get the age profile right again.

If it were me I'd almost be looking to see if anyone would take Hopper for 2025 for an early 2nd rounder in the 2024 draft, maybe a team like Essendon. Suck it up and get something back whilst we can. Keep Taranto cause he's clearly better and a bit younger.

 

[Tygrys]

We've got to be careful we don't offload too much experience. Norf did that and look where they are. Need a good blend of experience and kids IMO.

We'd still have a not insignificant core of very experienced players even if all the proposed or suggested trades or retirements happened. Plus we recently sold the farm and traded in some serious experience in Hooper and Taranto. We would not be Norf.

But that said Norfs story is far from written. They have youth we would kill for (in part thanks to AFL corruption) and a dynasty premiership coach. Just like during the first few years under Wallace, Richmond fans were congratulating themselves for not being a basket case like Hawthorn, Norf in the long run might not be the best example of what not to be.

 

[guruisatiger]

I can guarantee Baker will be on the eagles list in 2025

Bookmark it !!

I can guarantee you are correct

 

[fargothegreat]

Pies sniffing around balta, apparently.

There is nothing at all they could give us that would make me trade him (aside from Daicos, which they're obviously not going to do).

I think the Pies' list is in a world of trouble going forward. It was a great effort by them to win last year with the amount of holes they have.

 

[smurfin]

Yep and has Graham played one good game since we didn't trade him to Port

Here is the list of free agents at the end of the year ...

I am hoping most of ours leave ... Dusty and Nank excluded ...

(and maybe hindsight will tell us we needed to offer Miller a new 3 year contract this week before he has a break out game as he is a delisted free agent and can just walk out the door back to WA with Bakerboy)

2024 FREE AGENTS​

*qualifies as previously delisted player
^qualifies as previously having changed clubs as a free agent
ADELAIDE
Will Hamill*
Elliott Himmelberg
Ben Keays*
Rory Sloane
Brodie Smith
Taylor Walker
James Borlase*
BRISBANE
Jarrod Berry
Hugh McCluggage
Darragh Joyce*
Ryan Lester
Jarryd Lyons*
Dayne Zorko
CARLTON
David Cuningham
Sam Durdin*
Jack Martin*
Matt Cottrell*
Caleb Marchbank
COLLINGWOOD
Will Hoskin-Elliott
Jeremy Howe
Scott Pendlebury
Steele Sidebottom
Oleg Markov*
ESSENDON
Dyson Heppell
Andrew McGrath
Todd Goldstein^
Jake Kelly^
FREMANTLE
Ethan Hughes
Matt Taberner
Corey Wagner*
Bailey Banfield*
GEELONG
Jed Bews
Patrick Dangerfield
Mitch Duncan
Zach Guthrie
Tom Hawkins
Jack Henry
Jake Kolodjashnij
Mark O'Connor
Brandan Parfitt
Rhys Stanley
Tyson Stengle*
Emerson Jeka*
Zach Tuohy
GOLD COAST
Ben Ainsworth
Sam Day
Brandon Ellis^
Nick Holman*
Sean Lemmens
Darcy Macpherson
Jarrod Witts
Levi Casboult*
Jack Mahony*
GREATER WESTERN SYDNEY
Isaac Cumming
Nick Haynes
Lachie Keeffe*
Adam Kennedy
Harry Perryman
Callan Ward
HAWTHORN
Luke Breust
Blake Hardwick
Harry Morrison
Conor Nash
Cooper Stephens*
Chad Wingard*
MELBOURNE
Tom McDonald
Jake Melksham
Adam Tomlinson^
Marty Hore*
Joel Smith
NORTH MELBOURNE
Hugh Greenwood*
Bigoa Nyuon*
Toby Pink*
Liam Shiels*
Cam Zurhaar
PORT ADELAIDE
Travis Boak
Charlie Dixon
Francis Evans*
Trent McKenzie*
Todd Marshall
Quinton Narkle*
RICHMOND
Jack Graham
Dylan Grimes
Dustin Martin
Kamdyn McIntosh
Toby Nankervis
Dion Prestia
Ben Miller*
Sam Naismith*
ST KILDA
Josh Battle
Riley Bonner*
Tom Campbell*
Tim Membrey*^
Seb Ross
Jimmy Webster
Mason Wood*
Liam Stocker*
SYDNEY
Harry Cunningham
Ollie Florent
Will Hayward
Lewis Melican
Sam Reid
Robbie Fox*
WEST COAST
Liam Duggan
Andrew Gaff
Jamaine Jones*
Josh Rotham
Elliot Yeo
Zane Trew*
WESTERN BULLDOGS
Taylor Duryea*
Tim English
Jason Johannisen
Tom Liberatore
Lachie McNeil*
Lachie Bramble*

Someone mentions Sam Reid and/or Andrew Gaff pretty much every year. Maybe this is the time?

Or, we get Lachie McNeil from Bulldogs, expecting a Brownlow medallist and then "Who the hell is this guy?"

 

[Serenitylater]

You just don't give up players like Baker and Bolton for a pick 10 plus.
That's just madness.
You do everything to keep them.
The deal has to be in our favor if they want to leave.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Freo fans would prefer Bolton to Baker. They aren't sold on giving up a 1st rounder for Baker even though once he started playing for them, he would quickly become a fan favourite.

To me he is a late 1st rounder, if you throw Bolton in, as good as we think he is, Freo won't be giving us picks 5 & 14 for him.

What did they get for Schultz?
5/14 & 18 for the 2 B's seems reasonable.

 

[Morro]

There is nothing at all they could give us that would make me trade him (aside from Daicos, which they're obviously not going to do).

I think the Pies' list is in a world of trouble going forward. It was a great effort by them to win last year with the amount of holes they have.

Amen to this, how do people not see it. They were a goal a game from not even playing finals last year yet even this year the carry on about them is insane.

1 x Good KPP on their whole list, aging stars, they are worse than us after 2020 IMO.

 

[fargothegreat]

Amen to this, how do people not see it. They were a goal a game from not even playing finals last year yet even this year the carry on about this is insane.

1 x Good KPP on their whole list, aging stars, they are worse than us after 2020 IMO.

A few Pies supporting mates of mine think it's this year or bust for them and I tend to agree.

 

[Ctl]

bit of a premature discussion but if Baker and Martin were to leave at the end of the season, and prestia does retire are richmond then more inclined to take a free hit on Tarryn Thomas

26

Tarryn Thomas

Age

24

Ht

190cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

5.3

2star

HB

5.7

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

3.3

5star

CL

0.9

3star

D

7.8

2star

K

4.0

1star

HB

3.8

3star

M

1.3

1star

T

3.2

4star

CL

0.2

2star

D

12.8

4star

K

6.2

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

0.4

3star

either as DFA or in the PSD.

Then in 2025 we'd have midfield of Hopper, Taranto, Bolton, T Thomas, Dow, Mcauliffe

 

[Morro]

A few Pies supporting mates of mine think it's this year or bust for them and I tend to agree.

Yeah I agree but I dont even think they have it in them this year.

 

[Morro]

bit of a premature discussion but if Baker and Martin were to leave at the end of the season, and prestia does retire are richmond then more inclined to take a free hit on Tarryn Thomas either as DFA or in the PSD.

Then in 2025 we'd have midfield of Hopper, Taranto, Bolton, T Thomas, Dow, Mcauliffe

no.

 

[tigerfan1961]

I totally get that this is a forum and we discuss what we think may transpire but some of the stuff being posted is crazy. Robs Journey writing off the list at this time is just mad, as there’s quite a number of players still well and truly in the development stage. The thing that people need to have some faith in is the bloke that built our dynasty list, Blair Hartley, who’s proven he can do the job.
I’ve mentioned it before but I’ll do it for the last time now, but I’ve been to a number of his presentations and if you don’t think he’s planning the list in the future out to about 5 years, your dead wrong. He knows which players will be there during that time period, who needs to be replaced, what other holes need to be filled, when they will retire etc, and I’m sure if Dusty, Baker, Broady etc come to him and say they are gonna move on, he’ll initiate what’s required to cover that outcome. He’s a very very switched on operator and it was no shock to me to read that Dimma tried to get him across to the Suns. He’s a key member of our footy department and probably the one we can least afford to lose.
This is the year that the new coach, and his fellow coaching staff, have a close look at players in the list, and assess if they are what is required going forward. Decisions will be made in the latter part of the year, and a strategy implemented to get in the type of players we lack in their view.
Happy to admit I look at the positives in things, and could be wrong, but one thing that I am confident in is that Blair knows exactly what he’s doing and this list rebuild will be well planned and thought out, with input from coaches and footy department staff like Tim Livingston and the recruiters. Must get a good National Recruiting Boss first and foremost in the immediate future.

EDIT: I agree with Rob that JUH is a big no at this point. We must invest in this upcoming draft which I’ve heard Matt Clarke describe as a strong draft. We need to load up before Tassie pillage the draft.

 

[RobsJourney]

bit of a premature discussion but if Baker and Martin were to leave at the end of the season, and prestia does retire are richmond then more inclined to take a free hit on Tarryn Thomas either as DFA or in the PSD.

Then in 2025 we'd have midfield of Hopper, Taranto, Bolton, T Thomas, Dow, Mcauliffe

Is the hit really free if he brings so much baggage? It might cost us members, there'll be a lot of booing in our games, might realy hurt the club culture too. The guy is horrible by the sounds of it, yes everyone deserves a SECOND chance but he's had quite a few now, I wouldn't go near him purely on principle.

But the guy can play.

 

[TheOptimum18]

bit of a premature discussion but if Baker and Martin were to leave at the end of the season, and prestia does retire are richmond then more inclined to take a free hit on Tarryn Thomas either as DFA or in the PSD.

Then in 2025 we'd have midfield of Hopper, Taranto, Bolton, T Thomas, Dow, Mcauliffe

Too much baggage around Tarryn Thomas, and nothing suggests that he can/will change.

If anything, think we should target someone like Will Phillips from North (former pick 3, regarded as one of the best midfielders of his draft year). Interrupted first couple of seasons in the system due to injury, before being behind the likes of LDU, Cunnington, Greenwood, more recently, Wardlaw, Sheezel, Powell, and eventually, McKercher.

Draft someone like Jagga Smith (already trained with us, and seems to have a nice balance of an inside and outside game as a midfielder), and see if you can pickup a player like Phillips.

 

[Mr Magic]

Too much baggage around Tarryn Thomas, and nothing suggests that he can/will change.

If anything, think we should target someone like Will Phillips from North (former pick 3, regarded as one of the best midfielders of his draft year). Interrupted first couple of seasons in the system due to injury, before being behind the likes of LDU, Cunnington, Greenwood, more recently, Wardlaw, Sheezel, Powell, and eventually, McKercher.

Draft someone like Jagga Smith (already trained with us, and seems to have a nice balance of an inside and outside game as a midfielder), and see if you can pickup a player like Phillips.

I would just hit the draft.

Plenty of other clubs will be chasing players, that way RFC becomes a point of difference and more attractive in the future for potential recruits as our windows will be different

That said I would not toss some of our players out willy nilly, we need experience leadership and they have a few credits in the bank

 

[Dr Tigris]

Interest in Baker: Plus is Grimes? Prestia? Maybe Martin too, would be enough of a cut of experience.

Trade some experienced players. But retain as much as you can whilst rebuilding. That way you shorten the rebuild and improve he development of the kids and transfer the successful culture.

No one is trading for Grimes or Prestia. Martin I really hope stays.

If we traded Baker, OK. Not happy but a good pick back and then fine.

Trade Broad, OK. can cover him and it will help our draft hand.

But that's it. Stay competitive as much as possible whilst rebuilding.

 

[Dr Tigris]

Thats what i was saying when GWS & GC started getting all the 1st round draft picks

I clearly remember saying to my family and friends the way this looks Richmond wont win a flag for 20 years
We were stuck on the bottom with a handfull of young kids in Jack , Trent , Dusty , Rance , Lids and Edwards and the rest was rubbish
But then BANG 3 flags and the GWS/Suns 0

We are in a situation thats very similar now
We have 5 kids from 3 years ago and will get another 5 this year and possibly 2-3 top 10 picks if we finish bottom 8

We have just scraped in in my opinion

We might just be able to recreate our list without selling the farm. Some smart moves and we'll be fine. I so hope so. This year looks not good.

 

[THE_GUN]

Basically anybody over 26 is for sale at the right price !!

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Too much baggage around Tarryn Thomas, and nothing suggests that he can/will change.

If anything, think we should target someone like Will Phillips from North (former pick 3, regarded as one of the best midfielders of his draft year). Interrupted first couple of seasons in the system due to injury, before being behind the likes of LDU, Cunnington, Greenwood, more recently, Wardlaw, Sheezel, Powell, and eventually, McKercher.

Draft someone like Jagga Smith (already trained with us, and seems to have a nice balance of an inside and outside game as a midfielder), and see if you can pickup a player like Phillips.

Will Phillips a very good suggestion, could be realistic to pick him off from North's overflowing brigade of young star midfielders. He had a quietly good year last year with a pretty well rounded game, balanced between attack and defence, without starring. He is probably a bit similar to Prestia in some ways, nuggety little specialist midfielder who can run. I have noticed with Phillips he seems to have really good reaction speed. If we could sneak him away with a decent contract offer for a pick maybe in the 15+ range, that would be well worth the punt imo. Out of contract 2024. You probably wouldn't want to overpay draft picks wise because at this point he is unproven and tracking a bit behind where say Prestia was after 3 seasons. If you could turn the draft picks from trading Baker into someone like Will Phillips, even if you needed to sweeten it a little, I think the list benefits from that over the longer term.

 

[SplintWhisky]

top 10 pick or gtfo

clubs always bend us over

now its our turn

Top ten + a swap of our third rounder for their second.

Baker is a 2 time flag winner, top 10 in our bnf for the last 5ish years and is vice captain.

The fact they have to trade for him means I hope we go hard and extract more than he is worth. It will lessen the pain of losing him for me.

 

[banzai]

You just don't give up players like Baker and Bolton for a pick 10 plus.
That's just madness.
You do everything to keep them.
The deal has to be in our favor if they want to leave.

Baker is out of contract and the team most likely to get him will finish last and have pick 1 in the PSD. So any deal wont have to be in our favour. I assume they offer the first pick in the 2nd round. No way we get a top 10 pick for him from anyone, let alone West Coast.

 

[SplintWhisky]

You just don't give up players like Baker and Bolton for a pick 10 plus.
That's just madness.
You do everything to keep them.
The deal has to be in our favor if they want to leave.

Baker yes you do everything to keep as his value is not just on the field it is the leadership and standards he sets with his attack.

Bolton however is not a player a rebuilding or refreshing side needs. He is a cream player that will only shine in a good side. He is not the type to sit down, shut up and put the grind in and be physical. For a side that is hovering around 2nd to 5th, he would be the perfect target as Bolton can rely on his team mates to get the hard ball.

 

[TigerTime88]

Need to keep our draft hands the next 3 years at least no trading in. with Tasmania coming in the AFL will not make the same mistakes They will get everything.

Totally agree.

2024, 2025 and 2026 drafts we need as many picks as possible. The drafts after that will be cooked. 2026 might even be if they get the same 17 yr old mini draft type access GWS did.