Turnbull's Innovation Nation w@nkery

[blackcat]

Not sold on Porter. City was always big in certain areas like shipping, insurance etc on back of UK global trade. Septics farked Eurodollar market with taxes and gave huge free kick to the soap dodgers. Singapore tried to compete in financial services but couldn't get ahead (I had a brief spell there before being a FILTH), biggest impediment it was bat s**t boring (massively different now)

Sydney would kill Honkers and Sing if taxes were lowered. Absolute no brainer. Highly skilled workforce, much more desirable location for expats, right time zone etc. Wont happen, morons in the ALP would rather throw (good ) money (after bad) at renewables and union jobs and the Libs are just gutless knobs.

Nothing new under the sun. Clever country redux.



AUD ranks where in currency turnover? 5th?

Meds, you were wrong on your Tiger micks from Ireland, the paddies got it wrong, and how can they possibly give Bono the tax dodge for his execrable oeuvre... the Sinos and Koreans come here for the lifestyle and education (yeah, funny that)... they could go to City, FILTH, or Manhattan, but they come here.

medusala

 

[blackcat]

Nah, Australia's just a tadpole pond compared to most of the rest of developed world. That's why the commercialization of our university research takes place in the USA, not here. It's why the gruesome twosome Krudd and Gillard hightailed to US thinktanks instead of hanging about here.

And speaking of KRudd, Malcolm asked the question "ÿou know something?" and answered himself at least four times when he was delivered the BS on Monday.

KRudd is inhabiting him. Ugh.

I hate that rhetorical trope.
I reckon KRudd learns this device from Peter Foster. Foster came 15 years too early, he could be spruiking these peptides with Dank's biochemical pathways that actually work. But not for fat like The Biggest Loser. Just for hipster and AFL lean'ness. or lean'ess

Malcs big "cheat" or "tell" is... <I will now take off my spectacles to tell you something really profound ok Leigh, Leigh... Leigh are you listening to me for chrissakes, i have waited all my life to be pm, respect my authority, i just took off my glasses, i just took off my glasses goddamit, goddammit leigh i took off my goddamned catholic glasses listen to me i am catholic now i changed for the hugheseses i am no long episcopalian wasp and I took my goddamned glasses off>

 

[blackcat]

^^^yeah, looks like James Brayshaw (the ACA interview "journo/reporter"), all the MILFs wanna felate brayshio [sic]

 

[blackcat]

GJ, you sort of contradicted yourself. The market like capital is now global.

the investment sector in Aus, does not have the legacy or the venture capital and start-up. the devil's advocate here, is how did Taipei and Seoul just slingshot past the ROW, and Tel Aviv. good question blackcat. now stop talking to urself in the third person.

so GJ, i) critical mass on a few fronts. capital (the money capital) leaking into start-ups and venture capital does not exist. It is a opportunity cost/choice, which way you invest your dough. The model on VC, is you spread your seed far and wide, and hope for the 20 projects, you get one Facebook or Uber. Well, you need the cash to be able to invest across all 20. And as I said, the Super industry and others, we DONT HAVE THE CULTURE.
ii) World, ROW is global market, so this is not the reason, and you are right on the Israelis being dialled into the American market, but this is still not the reason for the start-up dearth here, or start-up prominence in TelAviv. Sweden also has some start-ups, and a vibrant music culture, pop music culture, but ABBA aint the reason. And yes, if you dial down into that background, you can ascertain the reasons. You dont have to be Michael Porter the Harvard business school prof.

Our capital goes alternative places, because we have sound investment option. It is both a demand and supply side thing. Or in the refugee parlance, a push or pull thing. Or in onanism, a Dutch rudder (urban dictionary that jane) We dont have start-up culture, the talent will either go to Paolo Alto and work in Silicone Valley (this is where Porter's cluster theory is valid), it draws the minute talent we do have, or some may just go to Google or Microsoft HQ in Sydney.

also, a good metaphor on #talent guru and smokingjacket , is the EPL and the European majors, our soccer league cannot compete with talent for the best domestic players, so our national league will always be third rate as out capital jumps to Europe, if they dont quite have the ability, they go to Asia or to somewhere else besides the major leagues. Also, we should not be looking at Kewell/Viduka/TimmyCahill/Emerton and no Australian taking the EPL by storm now, the EPL now is a legitimate global league and draws its talent catchment from the best in the world. This has only happened in the past decade, it means you need to be the best of the best to get a look in. Yes. England always drew players from all nations, but now the catchment is comprehensive, previously it was taking from the ROW but the feeders potential was mere slither of the potential catchment.

This is how the best in the sciences will always be like Terrence Tao and go to Berkley or Princeton or MIT or Caltech. Or David Chalmers at NYU or Arizona. No surprise that the Suntech principal Zhengrong Shi came from UNi NSW because that had the preemininent Solar Eng. faculty in the world ( medusala meds aphorism/quote on PPE). Think Brian Schmidt the canuck who is now Vice Chancellor? at ANU, the Nobel prize dude in astronomy, he has designs on making ANU the Australian equivalent to the Oxbridge and US elites. I dont know how the Uni NSW organically (combusts [sic]) with solar besides the obvious of the Whiteley azure and sun. whiteley does not paint those blues if he remained in London or NYU.

all the best talent in Bangalore and from the other IITs (Indian Institutes of Technology) jumps to the States. There will be a point when the best talent does not leak tho.

GuruJane medusala

 

[medusala]

Meds, you were wrong on your Tiger micks from Ireland, the paddies got it wrong, and how can they possibly give Bono the tax dodge for his execrable oeuvre... the Sinos and Koreans come here for the lifestyle and education (yeah, funny that)... they could go to City, FILTH, or Manhattan, but they come here.

medusala

Wrong how so? Micks got companies re low tax but not financial services so much, you think Goldmans FI traders are paying 40% tax? Ireland imploded for one major reason, the EURO (and having delusional domestic banks)

re education - yep. Amusing that people think they come here because the education they get is so brilliant. The same sort of people that think having free Arts degrees is some sort of economic panacea.

 

[blackcat]

Wrong how so? Micks got companies re low tax but not financial services so much, you think Goldmans FI traders are paying 40% tax? Ireland imploded for one major reason, the EURO (and having delusional domestic banks)

re education - yep. Amusing that people think they come here because the education they get is so brilliant. The same sort of people that think having free Arts degrees is some sort of economic panacea.

pumpprimed realestate... like spain, just like overpriced bricks and mortar here.

 

[medusala]

pumpprimed realestate... like spain, just like overpriced bricks and mortar here.

Yep, see % of banks assets in residential mortgages in Oz vs rest of the world. Scary

 

[Maggie5]

Yep, see % of banks assets in residential mortgages in Oz vs rest of the world. Scary

You can add credit card debt to that too.
Banks may be rubbing their hands at the high interest rate but...

 

[medusala]

You can add credit card debt to that too.
Banks may be rubbing their hands at the high interest rate but...

They will get smoked if Australia has a decent property correction. Ireland and Spain weren't that debt ridden before their property crashes, it was bailing out their banks that stuffed them.

Property prices at the top end in Perth apparently have come off a large amount. Hardly surprising given whats happened to the iron ore price.

 

[Maggie5]

They will get smoked if Australia has a decent property correction. Ireland and Spain weren't that debt ridden before their property crashes, it was bailing out their banks that stuffed them.

Property prices at the top end in Perth apparently have come off a large amount. Hardly surprising given whats happened to the iron ore price.

Been a slight downturn in Vic too.
Don't think we will really ever know the true health of the economy.
Don't have any sympathy for banks but sadly they don't really suffer that much, it will always be the public and shareholders.

 

[Ripper]

Don't have any sympathy for banks but sadly they don't really suffer that much, it will always be the public and shareholders.

No moral hazard these days, Costello set up APRA on the condition that the banks were on their own. Rudd & Swan reversed that and I cannot see the Member for Goldman Sachs not bailing them out at the expense of the taxpayer.

 

[medusala]

No moral hazard these days, Costello set up APRA on the condition that the banks were on their own. Rudd & Swan reversed that and I cannot see the Member for Goldman Sachs not bailing them out at the expense of the taxpayer.

Remember Ruddbank? He was like a rabbit in the headlights in the GFC. He and Swan were utterly clueless. The worry is Turnbull would be another Geithner ie not stupid but very dangerous.

 

[Ripper]

Lebbo73 and Maggie5 like this.

Lol , That must be a first.

 

[smokingjacket]

that what I heard.

Wouldn't be surprised at all. Plenty of the fellas were using so not a bit big jump to selling.

Weird culture as well. Not really political apart from liking ****, drugs and waves. I guess that's a politics of sorts.

 

[smokingjacket]

Remember Ruddbank? He was like a rabbit in the headlights in the GFC. He and Swan were utterly clueless. The worry is Turnbull would be another Geithner ie not stupid but very dangerous.

Wasn't Rudd ex-Macquarie too?

Singapore tried to compete in financial services but couldn't get ahead (I had a brief spell there before being a FILTH), biggest impediment it was bat s**t boring (massively different now)

Is it? Even after the we don't flog the gheys anymore because we're a fun Confucian place to be rebrand, it still comes across as grim to me. Beers and booze in general is extortionate so you would want to make sure your capital gains free was worth it. Can't imagine it would be too fun a place to retire in. Few friends working there across various professions and they seem to enjoy it so who knows.

re education - yep. Amusing that people think they come here because the education they get is so brilliant. The same sort of people that think having free Arts degrees is some sort of economic panacea.

They come for the lifestyle and the education. It's seen as a fun and safe place to study and the quality of education is seen as generally ok. You have to remember the comparison is ******* China where you could just pay a bit extra and just get your piece of paper on the spot or brutally rote learning a degree in Taiwan. A lot of the universities are geared towards East Asian international students and have pretty good support services attached. Additionally, large Asian diaspora, same time zone, climate. Cheaper fees than elsewhere in the west when the AUD comes down too.

 

[smokingjacket]

also, a good metaphor on #talent guru and smokingjacket , is the EPL and the European majors, our soccer league cannot compete with talent for the best domestic players, so our national league will always be third rate as out capital jumps to Europe, if they dont quite have the ability, they go to Asia or to somewhere else besides the major leagues. Also, we should not be looking at Kewell/Viduka/TimmyCahill/Emerton and no Australian taking the EPL by storm now, the EPL now is a legitimate global league and draws its talent catchment from the best in the world. This has only happened in the past decade, it means you need to be the best of the best to get a look in. Yes. England always drew players from all nations, but now the catchment is comprehensive, previously it was taking from the ROW but the feeders potential was mere slither of the potential catchment.

This is how the best in the sciences will always be like Terrence Tao and go to Berkley or Princeton or MIT or Caltech. Or David Chalmers at NYU or Arizona. No surprise that the Suntech principal Zhengrong Shi came from UNi NSW because that had the preemininent Solar Eng. faculty in the world ( medusala meds aphorism/quote on PPE). Think Brian Schmidt the canuck who is now Vice Chancellor? at ANU, the Nobel prize dude in astronomy, he has designs on making ANU the Australian equivalent to the Oxbridge and US elites. I dont know how the Uni NSW organically (combusts [sic]) with solar besides the obvious of the Whiteley azure and sun. whiteley does not paint those blues if he remained in London or NYU.

all the best talent in Bangalore and from the other IITs (Indian Institutes of Technology) jumps to the States. There will be a point when the best talent does not leak tho.

Not to get all football hipster on you but the EPL is widely considered, in footballing terms at least to be tactically and intellectually an inferior culture and league. They attract the best players because they pay the highest wages apart from the 4 continental behemoths in Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern and PSG. Sometimes throw in the odd mad Ruski team owned by a gas gangster. There's a large number of players who're choosing to stay or move to La Liga despite more generous compensation in the EPL because they believe the standard is higher technically, more artistic, more expressive of the byortifool game mate and they learn more. Mostly players heads get turned by the cash though.

Needless quibble but I don't mind a bit of roundball tactical analysis on the day off.

UniNSW developed their solar program in conjunction with CSIRO and Telstra(*) for powering their remote phone services. Again a government investment program. While I'm sympathetic to meds idea that many fine ideas come from releasing the private sector from bureaucracy and government meddling in the R&D process, the problem is not so much is it better, it's that, when so many other nations actively pump the tires of their research industries, we're at a huge loss when we don't.

To use your roundball analogy before we just end up being the River Plate of the research world. Farming off our best kids to the big leagues for a few bucks early on while never realising the flow on benefits of developing your own players, like building a team who've come up with the skills and philosophy of your institutions.

 

[blackcat]

Not to get all football hipster on you but the EPL is widely considered, in footballing terms at least to be tactically and intellectually an inferior culture and league. They attract the best players because they pay the highest wages apart from the 4 continental behemoths in Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern and PSG. Sometimes throw in the odd mad Ruski team owned by a gas gangster. There's a large number of players who're choosing to stay or move to La Liga despite more generous compensation in the EPL because they believe the standard is higher technically, more artistic, more expressive of the byortifool game mate and they learn more. Mostly players heads get turned by the cash though.

Needless quibble but I don't mind a bit of roundball tactical analysis on the day off.

UniNSW developed their solar program in conjunction with CSIRO and Telstra(*) for powering their remote phone services. Again a government investment program. While I'm sympathetic to meds idea that many fine ideas come from releasing the private sector from bureaucracy and government meddling in the R&D process, the problem is not so much is it better, it's that, when so many other nations actively pump the tires of their research industries, we're at a huge loss when we don't.

To use your roundball analogy before we just end up being the River Plate of the research world. Farming off our best kids to the big leagues for a few bucks early on while never realising the flow on benefits of developing your own players, like building a team who've come up with the skills and philosophy of your institutions.

that was Peter Jess' business model with Carlton FC or whatever they were before that young player Vince Colosimo was not his name but when they were playing an Aus friendly at the G the Man U player just ran thru his knee and really stunted his career.

 

[blackcat]

Wrong how so? Micks got companies re low tax but not financial services so much, you think Goldmans FI traders are paying 40% tax? Ireland imploded for one major reason, the EURO (and having delusional domestic banks)

re education - yep. Amusing that people think they come here because the education they get is so brilliant. The same sort of people that think having free Arts degrees is some sort of economic panacea.

you cant separate the bankers from the taxes meds, they come in one shift in the same package

price shifting, shifting hq to tax domociles, etc etc

 

[blackcat]

Wasn't Rudd ex-Macquarie too?

was that before or after he was chief of staff to Goss in Queensland, I think after the Goss gov't he then did some consulting on China and may have worked for MBank in a consulting gig. Think he may have been part of the auditor 4 consulting troupe, well then, it was 5 since Andersen was still alive and Andersen Consulting never had hived off, and they had never rebranded their private consulting accenture division. this was 92, 23 yrs back!

 

[blackcat]

that was Peter Jess' business model with Carlton FC or whatever they were before that young player Vince Colosimo was not his name but when they were playing an Aus friendly at the G the Man U player just ran thru his knee and really stunted his career.

simon colosimo smokingjacket i had to surrender and google it
it was andy cole
http://www.foxsports.com.au/footbal...r-simon-colosimo/story-e6frf4gl-1226529642960

it was funny to hear Timmy Cahill justify his moves to NY Red Bulls and Beijing or Shanghai...

Timmy C was moving for money, where they could offer him the biggest pay packet. Like alot of the other Australians like Kewell who go off to Dubai to play, just stupid. When bogans get a test for Benjamins they get an opium addiction...
emoji

 

[GuruJane]

Not sold on Porter. City was always big in certain areas like shipping, insurance etc on back of UK global trade. Septics farked Eurodollar market with taxes and gave huge free kick to the soap dodgers. Singapore tried to compete in financial services but couldn't get ahead (I had a brief spell there before being a FILTH), biggest impediment it was bat s**t boring (massively different now)

Sydney would kill Honkers and Sing if taxes were lowered. Absolute no brainer. Highly skilled workforce, much more desirable location for expats, right time zone etc. Wont happen, morons in the ALP would rather throw (good ) money (after bad) at renewables and union jobs and the Libs are just gutless knobs.

Nothing new under the sun. Clever country redux.



AUD ranks where in currency turnover? 5th?

Your point being Meds? Currency significance of, is not my strong point

 

[Play by Numbers]

Not necessarily true. I doubt we can ever emulate a Silicon Valley style tech culture. Maybe a good thing too, they seem to be awful people.

We have had some success with biomedical science and nano-medicine. Not sure making drugs and hearing aids is the kind of boom MT was talking about though.

Been saying it for yonks, the future is in materials science, advanced manufacturing and automation.

UQ and Monash are at the cutting edge in biomedical and industrial applications for 3D printing. There is a future, blackcat if we ditch the self hate and invest.

Australia does have a risk averse business culture, but part of this is due to liquidity constraints or a bottleneck imposed by the banks, who are housing market obsessed.

I am still convinced the property bubble is the biggest economic issue at present.

 

[smokingjacket]

simon colosimo smokingjacket i had to surrender and google it
it was andy cole
http://www.foxsports.com.au/footbal...r-simon-colosimo/story-e6frf4gl-1226529642960

it was funny to hear Timmy Cahill justify his moves to NY Red Bulls and Beijing or Shanghai...

Timmy C was moving for money, where they could offer him the biggest pay packet. Like alot of the other Australians like Kewell who go off to Dubai to play, just stupid. When bogans get a test for Benjamins they get an opium addiction...
emoji

Andy cole ay. That's a blast from the past.

The Dubai/Qatar/Emirati-general football leagues and their owners are a really interesting case in evolving forms of soft power if you look in to it blackcat (did you know there was a blackcatkid on BF? I would go Disney TM on them)

The petro-economies of the gulf are pumping money in to world football in the aim of softening their profile for their investment funds and as door openers with international clients. With regard to Cahill it's not as bad as it seems the Dubai league is making a huge effort to leverage their investments in European football to develop kids from South America and Asia as a kind of stepping stone league. Definitely not going to work but huge money being thrown at the project. Malcolm Conn has a nice write up about Manchester City, China, Abu Dhabi and the UK Government with football as the background noise.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/dec/01/manchester-city-owners-china-venture-power

 

[smokingjacket]

Been saying it for yonks, the future is in materials science, advanced manufacturing and automation.

UQ and Monash are at the cutting edge in biomedical and industrial applications for 3D printing. There is a future, blackcat if we ditch the self hate and invest.

Australia does have a risk averse business culture, but part of this is due to liquidity constraints or a bottleneck imposed by the banks, who are housing market obsessed.

I am still convinced the property bubble is the biggest economic issue at present.

Nailed it

 

[Power Raid]

Turnbull's Innovation Nation w@nkery

full blown, florid, manifest onanism par excellence....

australia cant confect the entrepreneurialism of say, America, or Israel. This needs to be organic and from some deeper-seated scaffolding, a ballast culture. we are the lucky country, and the easy life.

car industry, NBN, now picking winners for political messaging and focus group'ing[sic].

incoherent is incoherence.
he is no BoJo

medusala

I don't think your understanding the package and how it works. as the core of it is not "picking winners"



Issue

If you have a project requiring $500m in capital, it is easy to raise $500m as we have trillions in super and the world markets to tap. In fact we have more money than projects.

People can also fund projects under $1m really easily as it is a small sum and the corporations act doesn't capture these raisings.

Where the capital markets and corps act fails our scientists, artists and entrepreneurs is the $2m - $100m projects. This also happens to be the highest risk level as so many ventures fall over for a variety of reasons. Our culture is also very conservative, especially in the east, and we tend to see failure as a negative rather than just a point in time on a much bigger journey.

A failed business often leaves investors, managers, staff, consultants enriched with experience and knowledge. THE SAME THINGS PEOPLE VALUE IN UNIVERSITY AND EDUCATION. They are then free to pick themselves up and go again.

Andrew Forrest's Anaconda would be a great example. Anaconda went bust and many can only see Twiggy's failure. But step back Anaconda's nickel assets are operating still today profitably and Twiggy has built something in iron ore that everyone in the know said was impossible.


Solution

20% immediate deduction for start up which is "essentially" and "see-through" tax deduction. This is common in many parts of the world in different forms. In canada losses in companies don't get trapped in companies as it happens here, rather it flows through to the investor as a deduction.

This on the other hand provides an investor, investing in a qualified investment an immediate 20% deduction. So a person earning $120k making a $100k deduction can reduce their income by $20k.

The government misses out on $7,400 ($20k * 37%) in tax from the investor but collects 10% on the $100k spent on GST items or 37% on wages and 30% on any profits.

This $7,400 is not some extra cost, rather it is a timing cost as the investor would claim losses in the future anyway through CGT or against revenue depending on rules.


Going One Step Further

We should increase this from 20% to 30% for backing people under the age of 35 and aborigines