Turnbull's Innovation Nation w@nkery

[Power Raid]

Been saying it for yonks, the future is in materials science, advanced manufacturing and automation.

UQ and Monash are at the cutting edge in biomedical and industrial applications for 3D printing. There is a future, blackcat if we ditch the self hate and invest.

Australia does have a risk averse business culture, but part of this is due to liquidity constraints or a bottleneck imposed by the banks, who are housing market obsessed.

I am still convinced the property bubble is the biggest economic issue at present.

spot on

we need to assist our very clever people, doing wonderful things in industry in every way we can. we should encourage investment, change our "risk" adverse culture, change our corporations act, change our tax rules and balance out our non resident and resident treatment (currently favours non residents) etc.

we also need to change our education system and teach kids from junior primary on wards that risk is a not a thing to be avoided. It should be managed and not avoided.

 

[Power Raid]

This is a labour measure. I don't like it.

Reducing bankruptcy from 3 to 1 years? Removing liability for directors in charge of companies trading whilst insolvent? This essentially rewards mediocrity and debt incurring. A staple of the modern world.

I hear where you are coming from but in practice it may not always stand true.

I took over a uranium business, 6 months post fukushima and only got the opportunity because the MD stopped past my office and ask if I knew a good administrator.

Without digressing too much, do you appreciate what a dodgy industry insolvency and administration is? think used car sales crossed with personal injury lawyers and then add steroids. creditors and shareholders get fleeced.

We set out a plan and restructured the company without delisting, without going into admin and certainly traded insolvent many times. We could afford to take the risk as the asset is worth $600m in a normal market.

Adding to the complexity of the deal it had massive legal issue, the legal issues were with against the mafia, it had metallurgical issues, resource complexity, sovereign risk and a couple of other issues that management was able to deal with including massive amounts of secured debt.

We now find ourselves with a company worth $150m, shareholders preserved their capital and profited, employees kept their jobs, the debt holders preserved their capital and we started moving dirt last month and the net CO2 emissions is the equivalent of reducing all of Australia's emissions by 10-20% for 25 years.

If we didn't trade insolvent shareholders would have lost their money, debt holders would have gotten a hair cut, the mafia probably would have secured the asset, people lost their jobs and our indigenous friends wouldn't be collecting royalties and would have so many head of cattle on their land given as part of deal (despite have no native title claim).



Sure there needs to be rules around this but trading insolvent should not be a blanket "no".

 

[Collingwoodity]

I hear where you are coming from but in practice it may not always stand true.

I took over a uranium business, 6 months post fukushima and only got the opportunity because the MD stopped past my office and ask if I knew a good administrator.

Without digressing too much, do you appreciate what a dodgy industry insolvency and administration is? think used car sales crossed with personal injury lawyers and then add steroids. creditors and shareholders get fleeced.

We set out a plan and restructured the company without delisting, without going into admin and certainly traded insolvent many times. We could afford to take the risk as the asset is worth $600m in a normal market.

Adding to the complexity of the deal it had massive legal issue, the legal issues were with against the mafia, it had metallurgical issues, resource complexity, sovereign risk and a couple of other issues that management was able to deal with including massive amounts of secured debt.

We now find ourselves with a company worth $150m, shareholders preserved their capital and profited, employees kept their jobs, the debt holders preserved their capital and we started moving dirt last month and the net CO2 emissions is the equivalent of reducing all of Australia's emissions by 10-20% for 25 years.

If we didn't trade insolvent shareholders would have lost their money, debt holders would have gotten a hair cut, the mafia probably would have secured the asset, people lost their jobs and our indigenous friends wouldn't be collecting royalties and would have so many head of cattle on their land given as part of deal (despite have no native title claim).

Sure there needs to be rules around this but trading insolvent should not be a blanket "no".

I am solicitor who practices in the insolvency and bankruptcy fields.

I see what insolvent trading does to small businesses/small traders. It leaves them in a position whereby they have lost $100,000 of stock which has been sold by a selfish director who has pocketed the money and blown it on a lavish living.

The Personal Property Securities Act is utterly ineffective in securing the $100,000 of stock.

In my opinion these measures encourage deceit and underhandedness and the losers are the hard-workers who are the producers of stock.

 

[GuruJane]

I am solicitor who practices in the insolvency and bankruptcy fields.

I see what insolvent trading does to small businesses/small traders. It leaves them in a position whereby they have lost $100,000 of stock which has been sold by a selfish director who has pocketed the money and blown it on a lavish living.

The Personal Property Securities Act is utterly ineffective in securing the $100,000 of stock.

In my opinion these measures encourage deceit and underhandedness and the losers are the hard-workers who are the producers of stock.

This is obviously why Malcolm Turnbull sacked Bruce Billson.

 

[blackcat]

I don't think your understanding the package and how it works. as the core of it is not "picking winners"

actually no, I was invoking a rule of thumb metaphor to point out the disparaty and divergence between their IPA policies of Abbott and Turnbull and the NBN and CSIRO

 

[Power Raid]

I am solicitor who practices in the insolvency and bankruptcy fields.

I see what insolvent trading does to small businesses/small traders. It leaves them in a position whereby they have lost $100,000 of stock which has been sold by a selfish director who has pocketed the money and blown it on a lavish living.

The Personal Property Securities Act is utterly ineffective in securing the $100,000 of stock.

In my opinion these measures encourage deceit and underhandedness and the losers are the hard-workers who are the producers of stock.

I'm sure though you wouldn't advocate a black a white rule against trading insolvent. You would probably even know a few jurisdiction where it works well and we have a precedent model that we can replicate.

I also agree and accept our insolvency rules and even our corporations act should be improved to stop dodgy operators.

Is it possible the issue isn't insolvency but corrupt elements in business? It's effectively fraud and should be treated as such (whether solvency is an issue or not, rather than focusing on the insolvency issue).

 

[MaddAdam]

Michael Porter's cluster theory. talent will attract talent. The City has plum banking jobs, do to London....

You use the word talent very generously when discussing the City.

 

[MaddAdam]

Rudd Mk 2. In it for his own vanity.

I know where you are coming from but at least Turnbull is coming from a sort of self titled noblesse oblige. He's a republican in that he thinks he's the kind of royalty who should be leading the country. I'd say he's more Whitlam than Rudd. If we're lucky, Keating.

 

[madmug]

I know where you are coming from but at least Turnbull is coming from a sort of self titled noblesse oblige. He's a republican in that he thinks he's the kind of royalty who should be leading the country. I'd say he's more Whitlam than Rudd. If we're lucky, Keating.

Turnbull has very little freedom of action at the moment. He is held hostage by his own now very factionalised party. The wets & drys are at each others throat like never before.

I guess if Turnbull wins the next election he may gain some control & freedom of action. However the hard drys will never accept this. They think everyone other than them is a Godless leftie. They may try to hijack the National party. I think the Nats would be silly to allow the nutters to use them. However Barnaby is a nutter in his own right.

We live in interesting times

 

[blackcat]

You use the word talent very generously when discussing the City.

bogans come in all forms and shapes, but what they have in common is the attraction of lucre

 

[blackcat]

I know where you are coming from but at least Turnbull is coming from a sort of self titled noblesse oblige. He's a republican in that he thinks he's the kind of royalty who should be leading the country. I'd say he's more Whitlam than Rudd. If we're lucky, Keating.

wait, Republicanis, how deeply seated was this in MT make-up, I just assume this was his entry-point to the big-time political stage. He made his cash with Rann Whitlam scion and Goldmans... <invoke meds' line now> I assume know the man, he just saw his shot to jump a few rungs. See the guy in Melbourne from looksmart, [sic] Evan Thornley and his delusions also, but seems he did not have the intelligence Turnbull possesses, or... and maybe it is the "or", Thornley was ALP and they had no tolerance for the johnny-come-lately business consultant.

 

[blackcat]

spot on

we need to assist our very clever people, doing wonderful things in industry in every way we can. we should encourage investment, change our "risk" adverse culture, change our corporations act, change our tax rules and balance out our non resident and resident treatment (currently favours non residents) etc.

we also need to change our education system and teach kids from junior primary on wards that risk is a not a thing to be avoided. It should be managed and not avoided.

the coding thing is BS.

We should be teaching every kid in primary school Indonesian and Mandarin. like Benny Gale, pretty sure he had a undergraduate degree in Indonesian at Monash. Still, Footscray picked up Lin Jong, oh, hes timorese not Indo. Timor/Sino. Sino-Timo. I luv saying sino

 

[MaddAdam]

Very few survive the snakepit that is Victorian ALP politics.

 

[Power Raid]

bogans come in all forms and shapes, but what they have in common is the attraction of lucre

you probably shouldn't be attacking people who are on the dole, pension or other social benefit by calling them bogans. Social welfare is an important part of our social system and makes Australia the nation it is.

I do agree though that many union members and officials are on the take and could accept them been demonised as bogans or worse.

 

[medusala]

Been saying it for yonks, the future is in materials science, advanced manufacturing and automation.

Manufacturing a non starter in Oz due to unions. We would also as per Germany need to churn out far more tradies rather than our current approach of producing an army of Arts grads with very little (being very generous) to the business community.

Social welfare is an important part of our social system and makes Australia the nation it is.

Yep one where a large % are bloody lazy and happy to leach off others.

 

[medusala]

You use the word talent very generously when discussing the City.

Lol. City vs Fleet Street is like Hawthorn vs Murray and Ovens D grade

I used to sit next to a bloke with a phd in nuclear physics. Plenty of similar sorts in middle and front office. Rolls Royce etc always complaining that the city takes all the talent.

 

[MaddAdam]

Lol. City vs Fleet Street is like Hawthorn vs Murray and Ovens D grade

I used to sit next to a bloke with a phd in nuclear physics. Plenty of similar sorts in middle and front office. Rolls Royce etc always complaining that the city takes all the talent.

These would be the same geniuses who sent the British banking system under then

 

[medusala]

These would be the same geniuses who sent the British banking system under then

Er no. BOS went under due to commercial banking and RBS due to Fred and his mates in Scotland at board level (ABN) which was egged on by the SNP. Abbey national was over property as was b&b

The bank with the biggest investment banking arm was Barclays and they didn't get a bailout.

Shouldn't believe anything you read in the Guardian.

 

[Play by Numbers]

Manufacturing a non starter in Oz due to unions. We would also as per Germany need to churn out far more tradies rather than our current approach of producing an army of Arts grads with very little (being very generous) to the business community.



Yep one where a large % are bloody lazy and happy to leach off others.

It isn't the kind of manufacturing that requires a large labor force. Scientists, engineers and IT types.

Monash already is moving to an agreement with the US dod and one of the big aerospace companies, to produce 3d printed parts. They own the ip for both the raw materials and methods.

Nothing stopping Aus from jumping into the market on hi tech manufacturing, bar maybe our telecoms backhaul

 

[medusala]

It isn't the kind of manufacturing that requires a large labor force. Scientists, engineers and IT types.

What % of grads are scientists and engineers vs art grads? The latter are a massive waste of scarce resources. It is a scandal that Australia wastes so much on that area and so little on the former

 

[WA ROO]

I do agree though that many union members and officials are on the take and could accept them been demonised as bogans or worse.

Piss off
Us bogans are demonized too much as it is

 

[MaddAdam]

Er no. BOS went under due to commercial banking and RBS due to Fred and his mates in Scotland at board level (ABN) which was egged on by the SNP. Abbey national was over property as was b&b

The bank with the biggest investment banking arm was Barclays and they didn't get a bailout.

Shouldn't believe anything you read in the Guardian.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. You know the SNP had been in power for about 15 months when it happened. Such amazing power! In a parliament that didn't even have control over most levels.

It was London City boy floggery that bought it down and everybody knows it.

What about Northern Rock?

 

[MaddAdam]

It isn't the kind of manufacturing that requires a large labor force. Scientists, engineers and IT types.

Monash already is moving to an agreement with the US dod and one of the big aerospace companies, to produce 3d printed parts. They own the ip for both the raw materials and methods.

Nothing stopping Aus from jumping into the market on hi tech manufacturing, bar maybe our telecoms backhaul

Meds overlooks German unions.

 

[The Punter]

Thornley had a pretty soft hide. In 2006 he was parachuted into the 2nd spot on the Southern Metro, and the final MLC came down to a battle between Thornley and the third Liberal candidate. When the final count was being done at Jeff's Shed, Thornley stayed in his car in the underground car park until he knew he won.

Then he showed his gratitude by leaving politics in 2008.

 

[Maggie5]

Piss off
Us bogans are demonized too much as it is

You just shattered my mental picture of you.