Strategy Welcome James Frawley to the HFC

[Davo23]

Leigh Matthews says Frawley is not in the TOP 100 players in the AFL.

I'd say that may be the kiss of death!

 

[dipper86]

Leigh Matthews says Frawley is not in the TOP 100 players in the AFL.

I'd say that may be the kiss of death!

Leigh Matthews once said that Hawthorn couldn't win the 2008 premiership, how did that go again....just because you're a club legend doesn't make you the be all and end all of everything football.

I'll reiterate, as a forward he's and absolute hack, as a KP defender with the ability to beat his opponent one out, he's one of the best going round.

 

[blue harvest]

Don't know much about Frawley but after seeing him kick yesterday I'm not sure that we should go for him.

 

[Steven Tyler]

Leigh Matthews says Frawley is not in the TOP 100 players in the AFL.

I'd say that may be the kiss of death!

We'd recruit him to fill a need, no other reason

Who cares what Leigh Matthews says? (Besides Leigh!)

 

[Davo23]

We'd recruit him to fill a need, no other reason

Who cares what Leigh Matthews says? (Besides Leigh!)

I have 2 problems with Frawley:

1. His kicking is average

2. He's played a full season in the forward line. At the Demons, it means he doesn't see the ball very much, and he doesn't do much defending. Who knows how he will go if we recruit him and play him deep in defence? After a full season as a forward, is he going to be a decent defender?

And Lethal Leigh is always right!

 

[Steven Tyler]

I have 2 problems with Frawley:

1. His kicking is average

2. He's played a full season in the forward line. At the Demons, it means he doesn't see the ball very much, and he doesn't do much defending. Who knows how he will go if we recruit him and play him deep in defence? After a full season as a forward, is he going to be a decent defender?

And Lethal Leigh is always right!

He's played for 7 years

1 as a forward


I think he is going to be ok as a defender, and an All Australian as a defender suggests he is capable in that role

Let's not forget Lake's kicking is average too, but he was recruited to play on the gorillas, and that's turned out pretty good so far!

 

[dipper86]

Let's not forget Lake's kicking is average too, but he was recruited to play on the gorillas, and that's turned out pretty good so far!

Exactly right, throw in Daniel Talia in that group as well.

Lake isn't used as an attacking option especially by foot at our football club, he gives the hands off or its a quick kick off to the side to a designated kicker at almost every opportunity....his role is as a defensive stopper and or for the interception of play which once again he gets off a handball to the likes of Hodge Birchall Suckling etc.

 

[Hawker55]

I've heard second hand we are right into him as well. Hard to know what to believe

From a tactical point it makes sense for us to have a crack. If we aren't interested, we still want to pump his price up so that the Cats etc get added pressure. It's why the Swans went with 9 years - we could have matched it and kept Buddy, but we weren't going to go nuts on that.

 

[Pessimistic]

Cant see how frawley is an improvement over shoe or spang even without the exhorbitant salary

 

[Steven Tyler]

Cant see how frawley is an improvement over shoe or spang even without the exhorbitant salary

He is a much better defender than both

 

[NICE1]

Wow, can't believe the scepticism on here. People are acting as if we have two genuine gun kpd to take us through the next 10 years. The reality is we don't, not even close. If we landed Frawley, he would instantly be our best kp defensive stopper and it would cost nothing to get him across, apart from a wage of course.

Schoey and Spang are a short term fix in my eyes, not a long term solution. Lake will be lucky to play out another full year and although gibbo is an absolute champ, at 189cm he is out of his depth playing on blokes standing at 196cm and above. Not to mention, he is 30.

We are still light on in this area and they don't grow on trees so I'm not sure why certain people think only a Harry Taylor the 2nd would be more valuable than what we already have.

 

[Flukey!]

He is a much better defender than both

This is true, just Frawley isn't as good as he thinks he is.

 

[Pessimistic]

Wow, can't believe the scepticism on here. People are acting as if we have two genuine gun kpd to take us through the next 10 years. The reality is we don't, not even close. If we landed Frawley, he would instantly be our best kp defensive stopper and it would cost nothing to get him across, apart from a wage of course.

Schoey and Spang are a short term fix in my eyes, not a long term solution. Lake will be lucky to play out another full year and although gibbo is an absolute champ, at 189cm he is out of his depth playing on blokes standing at 196cm and above. Not to mention, he is 30.

We are still light on in this area and they don't grow on trees so I'm not sure why certain people think only a Harry Taylor the 2nd would be more valuable than what we already have.

Well really we should be looking for a harry taylor not more depth which we have plenty of. Theres the salary component too. If we get a frawley and the debate lingers, its less money for a red hot midfielder to boot

 

[Thaihawk]

This is true, just Frawley isn't as good as he thinks he is.

On his performance against us he does have an inflated valuation of himself. Who on our list would be underpaid if we paid him $700? Just asking to unsettle our list if you ask me.

 

[dipper86]

Well really we should be looking for a harry taylor not more depth which we have plenty of. Theres the salary component too. If we get a frawley and the debate lingers, its less money for a red hot midfielder to boot

You're acting as if Harry Taylor types grow on trees, he's the complete backman, defensively first and foremost and then on the offence. Do you see one in Free agency that we can get a free hit on ?

Frawley wouldn't be more depth because he's better defensively than both Spangher and Shoey, he'd be in the first team line up in a KP defensive post. Both Spangher and Shoey would become the depth.
As for the salary cap we have quite a hole, I wouldn't be surprised if we freed up about 1.5 -2 mill, by paying out contacts with the Franklin money which then frees up more salary cap space.
I have a feeling we're going to rebuild our midfield through the draft/trade (yougen from GWS or Gold Coast) rather than the free agency route.
With 500-700k we could sure up our defence for the next 5 years and then concentrate on rebuilding in other areas.

It will be interesting if Geelong nabs him, it then frees up Taylor to go forward and partner Hawkins. That's a scary thought if they get enough of the pill.

 

[Pessimistic]

Frawley would be like Jeans' cheap pair of shoes, except they come with the same price as a really good pair

For the money wouldnt you have a good look round the shoe shop instead of the ones put out the front ?

Theres better than frawley at the price, and maybe our old shoes migth last another winter, if we dont use them every week

 

[Zurs]

The thing about Frawley is we would get him for free (ie no draft picks or players need to be traded) if for arguments sake you said he is about the same standard as Shoe, you can then trade Shoe for something good. So in effect it would be an arbitrage (apart from the fact you would have to pay JF more than Shoe).

You replace like for like (arguably an upgrade) and maybe get something good in return for the Shoe.

Its a very cold hearted approach and probably not the Hawthorn way but it does mean you get something for nothing.

 

[stuntmandylan]

As we know, Frawley looks like a real possibility of getting to hawks. We've established we can get him for free thru free agency and my opinion is he is proven being able to do the job we'll be getting him for and he's been AA in that role. So playing forward this year we have his form of recent times in our short term memory so we expect that's the player we would be getting. If the hawks get him they r confident of turning him into his AA form again and step up further no doubt. Look at Gibson before crossing to us and gunston we got b4 he blossomed so I have faith in g wright. Also, Brian lake is not the worst comparison with him, having not really performing for a couple years at the dogs with injury & form and we took him because it was filling a specific need. Lake isn't an elite kick either.. and he worked big time.
Our premiership window is open now and we want to keep it open. KP defenders that can play on the monsters don't come round often, let alone for free and an AA.
Also I could be wrong but as we want to snag a big get it seems with the buddy war chest money I think we can still do that in 2015 and instead of leaving that 1 million or so being unspent in the cap this year, can't we sign Frawley on a 4 year contract at 600k per year but front end the contract with 1mil in first year and then at end of next year maybe we can get cotchin or dangerfield as Frawley from then on will be on like 450k and lake will be done. I'm not sure if anyone's said this but could it work?

 

[Varcoe2Motlop]

Sorry for the intrusion fellas,
I had a quick read in a few of the Hawthorn threads and noticed a lot of negativity towards Shoenmakers.
Prior to Shoenmakers injury I was really impressed by how much he had improved as a defender, I can remember him comfortably beating Hawkins and many other key forwards in 2012, while also providing some quality rebound.
I genuinely believed Shoenmakers would develop into a dominant CHB / FB type player once he returned from injury. ACL's take a long time to recovery both mentally and physically, it also doesn't help that he''s been moved from back to forward. If a Geelong supporter has faith that Shoenmakers will become a gun, then so should you guys. Just my thoughts.

Also, he was impressive at AFL Draft Camp, with the top ranking in the repeat sprints and in the top six in both the 20m sprint (2.90 sec) which suggests the extra muscle he put on while injured has slowed him down significantly.

 

[dermott]

Sorry for the intrusion fellas,
I had a quick read in a few of the Hawthorn threads and noticed a lot of negativity towards Shoenmakers.
Prior to Shoenmakers injury I was really impressed by how much he had improved as a defender, I can remember him comfortably beating Hawkins and many other key forwards in 2012, while also providing some quality rebound.
I genuinely believed Shoenmakers would develop into a dominant CHB / FB type player once he returned from injury. ACL's take a long time to recovery both mentally and physically, it also doesn't help that he''s been moved from back to forward. If a Geelong supporter has faith that Shoenmakers will become a gun, then so should you guys. Just my thoughts.

Also, he was impressive at AFL Draft Camp, with the top ranking in the repeat sprints and in the top six in both the 20m sprint (2.90 sec) which suggests the extra muscle he put on while injured has slowed him down significantly.

You are obviously a more astute judge than most posters on this site.

 

[Noneedforaname]

I was at a lunch today with a Melbourne insider.

Frawley has been given an offer by Geelong only.

Hawthorn not interested because of footskills.

Ummm, red herring?

Not having a go per say, but letting the cats know they re the only ones in the game is to play into their hands. Surely we let them think were interested so they offer more, trade harder and maybe pay overs?

I guess is like someone from the Hawks coming out and declaring only GWS interested in Buddy last year. Time will tell I spose.

Um, also, not to doubt the footskills issue, or our true interest. Just an odd way to play the cards I would have thought.

 

[Pessimistic]

The thing about Frawley is we would get him for free (ie no draft picks or players need to be traded) if for arguments sake you said he is about the same standard as Shoe, you can then trade Shoe for something good. So in effect it would be an arbitrage (apart from the fact you would have to pay JF more than Shoe).

You replace like for like (arguably an upgrade) and maybe get something good in return for the Shoe.

Its a very cold hearted approach and probably not the Hawthorn way but it does mean you get something for nothing.

Wouldnt shoe be much cheaper ?

 

[TheFourPillars]

Sorry for the intrusion fellas,
I had a quick read in a few of the Hawthorn threads and noticed a lot of negativity towards Shoenmakers.
Prior to Shoenmakers injury I was really impressed by how much he had improved as a defender, I can remember him comfortably beating Hawkins and many other key forwards in 2012, while also providing some quality rebound.
I genuinely believed Shoenmakers would develop into a dominant CHB / FB type player once he returned from injury. ACL's take a long time to recovery both mentally and physically, it also doesn't help that he''s been moved from back to forward. If a Geelong supporter has faith that Shoenmakers will become a gun, then so should you guys. Just my thoughts.

Also, he was impressive at AFL Draft Camp, with the top ranking in the repeat sprints and in the top six in both the 20m sprint (2.90 sec) which suggests the extra muscle he put on while injured has slowed him down significantly.

YEP he has put on too much weight which will be stripped off him next pre season. It does take a while coming back from an ACL its also about having confidence in your body. His turning circle is like a mack truck atm. Thats not the Schoey that i know or have seen prior to his injury. Its obvious he is still finding out the boundaries of what he can and can't do.

His knees are fine but you're only human and i can see him thinking to himself every time he tries to make a sharp turn. Stratts was the same when he came back from his dislocated knee cap.

The game time he is getting is gold atm. He may drop out due to team balance. I have feeling both he and spangh will drop out when we are at full strength.

 

[SHAKESPEARE]

Sorry for the intrusion fellas,
I had a quick read in a few of the Hawthorn threads and noticed a lot of negativity towards Shoenmakers.
Prior to Shoenmakers injury I was really impressed by how much he had improved as a defender, I can remember him comfortably beating Hawkins and many other key forwards in 2012, while also providing some quality rebound.
I genuinely believed Shoenmakers would develop into a dominant CHB / FB type player once he returned from injury. ACL's take a long time to recovery both mentally and physically, it also doesn't help that he''s been moved from back to forward. If a Geelong supporter has faith that Shoenmakers will become a gun, then so should you guys. Just my thoughts.

Also, he was impressive at AFL Draft Camp, with the top ranking in the repeat sprints and in the top six in both the 20m sprint (2.90 sec) which suggests the extra muscle he put on while injured has slowed him down significantly.

well if you love him so much, be our guest

 

[Jason Dunstall]

I'm amazed at some of the comments here regarding Frawley.

Can't play, no good up forward.

We don't need a forward, we need a backman.

Either some are trying to wind people up, or have nfi