When will the Carlton FC Arrive?

[Chief]

Part 2 of this thread is here:

When will the Carlton FC Arrive? Part 2

PART 1 of this thread is here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/when-will-the-carlton-fc-arrive.1259822/ ============= We're all thinking it. We're watching this story play out for the 4th time in the last 20 years and it's the same story every time. They have a great list of exciting...

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[Strapping Young Lad]

Seriously ........ you actually put some faith & trust in the utter grandstanding & chest-beating that goes on there ??

For every 100 snippets of supposed gold, only 1 or 2 actually turn out to be true.

I don’t, but it seems a hell of a lot of Carlton supporters do.

 

[Shadow89]

Teague & Liddle had to go, there is no sugar-coating that fact !!

Unless you are advocating we should have kept them on for another 12-months, which would of been way more lunacy than what has happened since they were punted.

Teague didn't have to go, that's utterly ridiculous. The players wanted him to stay, and his coaching record was better than any other Carlton coach in the past two decades, in their first two years.

His overly attacking gameplan could have been corrected over the summer, with the addition of defensive minded assistant coaches and general support (which he wasn't given during his baptism of fire over two covid ridden years). Geelong could have sacked Thompson, then didn't and went on to have a period of success. Richmond could have sacked Hardwick, same happened. Melbourne could have sacked Goodwin, now they're in a Grand Final. Carlton, however, seem to think that constantly changing coaches, is the sure path to success - rather than looking internally at what is wrong with their culture and their administration.

You sacked Ratten, a beloved Carlton figure, and then brought in Malthouse - from a hated rival - which started your internal demise. You then brought in Bolton, didn't get anywhere due to him not being very good, and then brought in another coach in Teague and gave him the head role, another Carlton figure. You then gave him just two years and put ridiculous amounts of pressure on him and the team, with the expectation of finals from all and sundry, and then sacked him when you didn't make it after those two years, despite there being other mitigating circumstances like injury/lack of coaching support.

Liddle is different, as he was part of that 'club', but it definitely seems like he was ousted due to his support for Teague (said it kept him up for two weeks straight - which says a lot about his feelings about the situation). Him leaving isn't as big a deal, but Sayers getting the top job and literally making 'captain's calls' about who to approach and what the strategy should be - even if it's in opposition to what other board members/players at the club want - is just more of the same insular crap that you've been doing for 20 years.

You now face the real possibility, that you've sacked Teague - and put the players and some people at the club offside - in your pursuit of a shortcut to success, will not get Clarkson, will not get Lyon, will not get Cook, and could end up with just another assistant coach like Giansiracusa, Voss or Kingsley, whilst paying out Teague 250K of your soft cap and literally being back right where you started because the powers that be are corporate minded idiots who think they're entitled success when they haven't earned it.

I wonder if you'll be so forgiving if that's how things turn out. I guarantee those players who spoke up publicly for Teague and were some promised some 'messiah coach' in the mould of Lyon or Clarkson, might not be.

(Disclaimer): I say this as an avid Carlton follower whose partner is a lifelong Carlton supporter (who is very upset about all this), and thus in recent years, they have become my second team - especially since watching Walsh who is probably my favourite player in the AFL right now.

 

[LordLucifer]

I don’t, but it seems a hell of a lot of Carlton supporters do.

Yes, there are a lot of people who consider everything they read is 100% gospel regardless of how flimsy or far-fetched the information is. These people also spend countless hours gnashing their teeth and posting their disgust when these baseless and/or nebulous stories crash & burn.

Then there are others who look at these things with an open mind, a good dose of commonsense as well as applying some commercial reality to the scenarios. They tend to be a lot more relaxed right now !!!

 

[Shadow89]

Shadow89 - where's all this info coming from? Most of that seems to be Cawo Thourthes.

Literally? Thourth?

On Liddle, this is the AFL.com.au article. I don't have much time for Barrett, but Cleary as a reporter is usually very solid. While there may be some massaging of the actual words used, I have no doubt that the sentiment of backing him as CEO or parting ways is legitimate - given how everything transpired.

 

[LordLucifer]

Teague didn't have to go, that's utterly ridiculous. The players wanted him to stay, and his coaching record was better than any other Carlton coach in the past two decades, in their first two years.

You may want to think about that statement a little more .......... 30% of them wanted him, 70% didn't !!!

 

[Chief]

While there may be some massaging of the actual words used, I have no doubt that the sentiment of backing him as CEO or parting ways is legitimate - given how everything transpired.

OK, so not literally.

My guess then would be the "back me" was "guarantee my position for next season". The club likely did the right thing in not capitulating to an ultimatum.

 

[Chism]

You tell us to not believe everything we read, but then you come out with a statement that is highly disingenuous. Just because 40 players didn't publicly come out and state that they backed him, doesn't mean that a fair contingent did.

Given that there were some very high profile names that spoke up publicly in regard to his tenure, isn't 30% quite a f*cking chunk of your contingent to not be happy with internal decisions that affect their livelihoods and their future?

These aren't no name players either, these are some very high profile stars who are the future/core of your club - Walsh, Curnow brothers, McKay, Williams, Saad, Stocker, TDK, Jones, Newman, Weitering etc.

If that doesn't bother you, or doesn't bother anyone in the club - then that is a perfect example of just how broken things are there.

Players had anonymous surveys done as apart of the review process regarding Teague and under the fact that whatever they said could not be linked back to any player individually over 50% of the players did not back Teagues coaching. So he literally lost half the playing group.

 

[Shadow89]

OK, so not literally.

My guess then would be the "back me" was "guarantee my position for next season". The club likely did the right thing in not capitulating to an ultimatum.

Mmm fair point. Love ya work Chief, but Gotta respectfully disagree though on the club doing the 'right thing', given Liddle was actually one of those appointed as finding their next coach. It's not obscene to want your club to back you up, rather than not guaranteeing your future, due to them wanting someone else (who it seems like you probably won't even get now).

Leave it there though, as I'm probably getting a bit pointed in this thread, and it's probably derailing conversation a bit

 

[Shadow89]

Players had anonymous surveys done as apart of the review process regarding Teague and under the fact that whatever they said could not be linked back to any player individually over 50% of the players did not back Teagues coaching. So he literally lost half the playing group.

Couldn't that just be disgruntlement by seconds players not getting opportunity in favour of senior ones - given that most of your starting Best 22, were in favour of him?

Genuine question, as I could see that exact same circumstance taking place at Geelong given our shafting of younger players in favour of older ones

 

[Chism]

Couldn't that just be disgruntlement by seconds players not getting opportunity in favour of senior ones - given that most of your starting Best 22, were in favour of him?

Genuine question, as I could see that exact same circumstance taking place at Geelong given our shafting of younger players in favour of older ones

That’s a naive view that suits your own agenda.

Each to their own though. Nobody knows what players backed him and which didn’t but to say all the starting 22 were positive is just ludicrous and unfounded.

 

[Dazb86]

Could anyone see this Carlton list seriously playing the type of football required to take you deep into September?

 

[Mesc]

Could anyone see this Carlton list seriously playing the type of football required to take you deep into September?

It will take a new coach at least 2 seasons to lay the foundations. Maybe even 3.

 

[Dazb86]

It will take a new coach at least 2 seasons to lay the foundations. Maybe even 3.

Need to start drafting some hard nosed types

 

[Chief]

It's not obscene to want your club to back you up, rather than not guaranteeing your future, due to them wanting someone else (who it seems like you probably won't even get now).

No I didn't say it is.

But you can't have people giving you ultimatums to force you to do what you're not prepared to do.

From a "haters" perspective, what would you think of a story about a club officer forcing the club administrators to lock in a contract or the like when they didn't want to?

They'd call the club weak, or worse, for giving in.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[Shadow89]

That’s a naive view that suits your own agenda.

Each to their own though. Nobody knows what players backed him and which didn’t but to say all the starting 22 were positive is just ludicrous and unfounded.

Lol that's a little much from a mod. I could state that all the crap you and your brethren are stating about all the supposed 'reasonings' behind the Carlton board decisions thus far - is just a naive view that suits your own agenda.

All I did was ask the question, given the below article and excerpt - and then you came out with the aforementioned.



"A group of key players made an 11th hour bid to keep David Teague as coach earlier this week.

Although the last-ditch effort was ultimately unsuccessful, CEO Cain Liddle was left in no doubt that several important players would have preferred the board keep Teague for 2022.

Among the players to voice their support were the Curnow brothers, Sam Walsh, Harry McKay, Jacob Weitering and Nic Newman.

Foxfooty.com.au has been told there were more players involved in the discussion. It’s unclear whether Patrick Cripps also voiced his support behind closed doors to Liddle, as he did in public.

Adam Saad, Zac Williams, Caleb Marchbank, Liam Stocker, Liam Jones and Tom De Koning are also believed to have spoken favourably of Teague in the review.

It’s understood a section of the playing group is livid with the board, partly for sacking Teague, but also for dragging it out until the Thursday after the season.

Up until Wednesday evening, there were players who believed Teague’s job was safe."

Key Carlton players made a last-minute plea to keep David Teague. Now some are livid

Key Carlton players made a last-minute plea to keep Teague. Now some are livid

www.foxsports.com.au

****************************************

When mods start getting personal though, that's my ticket to leave lol. I'm sure everything will work out just great.

 

[Chief]

Liddle was actually one of those appointed as finding their next coach. It's not obscene to want your club to back you up, rather than not guaranteeing your future, due to them wanting someone else (who it seems like you probably won't even get now).

Who did they want to replace Liddle that they can't get now? It changes quickly and I haven't been paying attention to all this recently.

 

[Chief]

When mods start getting personal though

How was that personal?

 

[Chism]

Lol that's a little much from a mod. I could state that all the crap you and your brethren are stating about all the supposed 'reasonings' behind the Carlton board decisions thus far - is just a naive view that suits your own agenda.

All I did was ask the question, given the below article and excerpt - and then you came out with the aforementioned.



A group of key players made an 11th hour bid to keep David Teague as coach earlier this week.

"Although the last-ditch effort was ultimately unsuccessful, CEO Cain Liddle was left in no doubt that several important players would have preferred the board keep Teague for 2022.

Among the players to voice their support were the Curnow brothers, Sam Walsh, Harry McKay, Jacob Weitering and Nic Newman.

Foxfooty.com.au has been told there were more players involved in the discussion. It’s unclear whether Patrick Cripps also voiced his support behind closed doors to Liddle, as he did in public.

Adam Saad, Zac Williams, Caleb Marchbank, Liam Stocker, Liam Jones and Tom De Koning are also believed to have spoken favourably of Teague in the review.

It’s understood a section of the playing group is livid with the board, partly for sacking Teague, but also for dragging it out until the Thursday after the season.

Up until Wednesday evening, there were players who believed Teague’s job was safe."

Key Carlton players made a last-minute plea to keep David Teague. Now some are livid

Key Carlton players made a last-minute plea to keep Teague. Now some are livid

www.foxsports.com.au

****************************************

When mods start getting personal though, that's my ticket to leave lol. I'm sure everything will work out just great

Oh the Mod card.

Are we not allowed to even talk anymore?

 

[Chism]

How was that personal?

Exactly. It’s the Mod card.

 

[Dazb86]

Oh the Mod card.

Are we not allowed to even talk anymore?

No

 

[Shadow89]

Oh the Mod card.

Are we not allowed to even talk anymore?

Not when you play the man, given it's literally one of the tenets of BF. Calling me naive and going at me directly, rather than responding to what was a pretty reasoned comment, is something posters usually get a rap on the knuckles for.

 

[Shadow89]

Who did they want to replace Liddle that they can't get now? It changes quickly and I haven't been paying attention to all this recently.

Brian Cook

 

[Robertio]

This kind of bureaucratic messaging would make Sayers and the Carlton board proud, lol.

There are literally hundreds of articles stating how Clarkson was their man, and how he wouldn't have to go through any process if he wanted the job. There are also numerous bits of info that state Sayers spoke to Lyon about the role, which the board then later disagreed on (Lyon and Sayers both stated this themselves). One would have had to have gone through a process, the other one would not.

You literally waited until Clarkson stated he wasn't interested in coaching next year, to sack Teague. You didn't sack him on the Monday, you didn't sack him when the review was completed, you literally did it on the day that Clarkson refuted your advances. If that's not a direct correlation, I don't know what is.

Liddle may have technically resigned, but he literally stated 'back me or sack me' - which Sayers obviously didn't back him, so he was forced to resign...even though prior to that, Liddle was actually one of the people on the board chosen to select a coach - a bizarre set of circumstances.

But sure, get out on technicalities lol, when even supporters of your own club and supporters of 17 other clubs, can plainly see that this is just more of the same from an inept, mafiaesque Carlton board - spearheaded by Sayers and his corporate governance.

You still have no real facts bar the media mate, how about you tone it down until you have some facts. You're just yelling at the clouds and who cares about all the opposition supporters view.

 

[Robertio]

Lol that's a little much from a mod. I could state that all the crap you and your brethren are stating about all the supposed 'reasonings' behind the Carlton board decisions thus far - is just a naive view that suits your own agenda.

All I did was ask the question, given the below article and excerpt - and then you came out with the aforementioned.



"A group of key players made an 11th hour bid to keep David Teague as coach earlier this week.

Although the last-ditch effort was ultimately unsuccessful, CEO Cain Liddle was left in no doubt that several important players would have preferred the board keep Teague for 2022.

Among the players to voice their support were the Curnow brothers, Sam Walsh, Harry McKay, Jacob Weitering and Nic Newman.

Foxfooty.com.au has been told there were more players involved in the discussion. It’s unclear whether Patrick Cripps also voiced his support behind closed doors to Liddle, as he did in public.

Adam Saad, Zac Williams, Caleb Marchbank, Liam Stocker, Liam Jones and Tom De Koning are also believed to have spoken favourably of Teague in the review.

It’s understood a section of the playing group is livid with the board, partly for sacking Teague, but also for dragging it out until the Thursday after the season.

Up until Wednesday evening, there were players who believed Teague’s job was safe."

Key Carlton players made a last-minute plea to keep David Teague. Now some are livid

Key Carlton players made a last-minute plea to keep Teague. Now some are livid

www.foxsports.com.au

****************************************

When mods start getting personal though, that's my ticket to leave lol. I'm sure everything will work out just great.

Look back over the last week and check your attitude mate, it's not too hard not to talk down to posters.

 

[owen87]

You still have no real facts bar the media mate

Neither do you though?