I never, ever, want to see Jamison forward again. His role should be to develop and lead Rowe, Giles and Jaksch, and play good footy at FB as long as he can.
Strategy Where Will Our Goals Come From In 2015 ?
- Thread starter LordLucifer
- Start date
- Tagged users None
I never, ever, want to see Jamison forward again. His role should be to develop and lead Rowe, Giles and Jaksch, and play good footy at FB as long as he can.
There's some very low expectations here. Menzel jsut 25 goals? The forward coach should be pushing these guys in 2015 to get hungry and target 2 goals a game minimum.
Why does everyone here seem happy to accept a mediocre return for each of our forwards? Menzel on roughly 1 goal a game? Hendo penciled in for just 30? I'd seriously be hoping the forward coaches are setting two goal minimums for Menzel and Walker and the expectation that Jones and Hendo kick 50+ should both play the whole year forward. Kruezer on 30 would be about right considering is rucking job. If Thomas plays forward as well then his number should be 45+ especially as he's now 12 months into recovery and should have a full pre-season. If our coaches are not putting these expectations in place then we can expect another year near the bottom of the ladder. Expectation needs to be lifted.
Why does everyone here seem happy to accept a mediocre return for each of our forwards? Menzel on roughly 1 goal a game? Hendo penciled in for just 30? I'd seriously be hoping the forward coaches are setting two goal minimums for Menzel and Walker and the expectation that Jones and Hendo kick 50+ should both play the whole year forward. Kruezer on 30 would be about right considering is rucking job. If Thomas plays forward as well then his number should be 45+ especially as he's now 12 months into recovery and should have a full pre-season. If our coaches are not putting these expectations in place then we can expect another year near the bottom of the ladder. Expectation needs to be lifted.
Carl Tone - agree with your sentiments
I also expect our forwards to kick more goals but expectations and reality seem poles apart
I grew up playing without the press, the rolling maul and so maybe my expectations are stuck in the 90s
My analysis on page 3 was done using actual averages from player careers with a few increases for players who would play different roles and game time next year ie Kreuzer, Watson and maybe Buckley (do admit though that his goals maybe/hope by Tutt or ???
Check it out - it doesn't make for the best of reading and is nowhere near our shared expectations
I'm going to compare who will kick our goals next year to who kicked them for the team 6-8 this year (as that's what we can realistically aim for in 2015). The top-5 goal kickers for each of these teams were as follows:
I've only done top-5 because, for the most part, after that is normally goal kickers through the midfield, decreasing from late teens down until around 10ish. Now, the top 5 for each of these teams can be broken down like so:
No.1 key forward averaged 46 goals (Hendo)
No.2 key forward averaged 25 goals (Casboult)
Medium forward averaged 31 goals (Menzel)
Third tall averaged 17 goals (Jones)
Resting mid averaged 18 goals (Thomas)
I don't thing the above averages are asking too much of each corresponding player. If they do their part, and our midfielders kick around 10-20 goals each, we should be right.
I've only done top-5 because, for the most part, after that is normally goal kickers through the midfield, decreasing from late teens down until around 10ish. Now, the top 5 for each of these teams can be broken down like so:
No.1 key forward averaged 46 goals (Hendo)
No.2 key forward averaged 25 goals (Casboult)
Medium forward averaged 31 goals (Menzel)
Third tall averaged 17 goals (Jones)
Resting mid averaged 18 goals (Thomas)
I don't thing the above averages are asking too much of each corresponding player. If they do their part, and our midfielders kick around 10-20 goals each, we should be right.
If we can obtain Saad in the draft and get him 2 shots at goal per quarter then there will not be enough time for the opposition to kick many against us considering the length time it takes for his goal kicking routine.
That 330 mark could come down to 180.....
That 330 mark could come down to 180.....
SBYM
Fish, chips, cup o' tea, Mary @#? Poppins. London!
Just a thought...
MK has never kicked more than 13 goals in a season.
Those putting him down for 30-ish, would you also be interested in my jousting sticks?
MK has never kicked more than 13 goals in a season.
Those putting him down for 30-ish, would you also be interested in my jousting sticks?
SE_Blue
Cancelled
Barring injury:
Henderson - 40
Menzel - 30
Walker - 30
Casboult - 25
Jones - 25
Yarran - 15
Kreuzer - 15
Gibbs - 10
Thomas - 10
Judd - 10
Murphy - 10
That's 220.
Need a consistent small forward option.
Henderson - 40
Menzel - 30
Walker - 30
Casboult - 25
Jones - 25
Yarran - 15
Kreuzer - 15
Gibbs - 10
Thomas - 10
Judd - 10
Murphy - 10
That's 220.
Need a consistent small forward option.
SBYM
Fish, chips, cup o' tea, Mary @#? Poppins. London!
Simmo before MM was floating around 15...has dropped significantly since Mick arrived.
Working backwards; 4, 6, 15, 17, 17, 15, 9, 17, 11...
Would be good to get him up around 15 again, and I feel we now have the backline runners on hand to get him up the ground a bit more.
Working backwards; 4, 6, 15, 17, 17, 15, 9, 17, 11...
Would be good to get him up around 15 again, and I feel we now have the backline runners on hand to get him up the ground a bit more.
HBF
Flying Scotsman
- Sep 24, 2002
- 156,160
- 100,963
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Like all good teams we need to share the load and have as many goalkickers as possible.
Clearly guys like Henderson, Cas, Jones & Menzel will be the focal points, but we do get goals from our mids and we know from past experiences that MK and even Cam Wood can drift forward and hit the scoreboard as well.
Clearly guys like Henderson, Cas, Jones & Menzel will be the focal points, but we do get goals from our mids and we know from past experiences that MK and even Cam Wood can drift forward and hit the scoreboard as well.
Sydney had the lowest total points against which was 1488 compared to our 2107, that is a 619 point differential which across 22 games equates to almost 5 goals per game.
The reason they can achieve this is because they do not carry players who are not prepared to buy into full field team defense or players who just cannot execute their philosophy due to their physical deficiencies.
I look at our list from last year and we have a few that we carried at times defensively, most of these players are not defenders which is why we get opened up quickly in transition.
Our team defense will improve once the majority of the below players who were regular players are replaced by others with a better work ethic and physical attributes to apply the required pressure skills.
McLean- Incapable of running & pressuring to a high level
Lucas- Lacks tackling execution
Waite- Picks and choose, effort is not consistent
Judd- Targeted to be run off because of age/injury
Garlett- Picks and chooses, effort is not consistent
Warnock- Incapable of running, pressuring to a high level
Robinson- Cant impact as he goes to ground too much
Carrazzo- Lacks speed to impact defensively on the spread
I would be happy to carry 2 of these next season (Judd & Carrazzo) as one of them has great ball winning ability and can be damaging and the other can tag a key player from the opposition and also win the ball himself.
That list with defensive concerns just about made it impossible to win enough games to feature in finals when you consider our inability to convert at the other end at an efficient level on most occasions.
Fix the full field team defensive efforts and 12 to 13 goals per week may get us more wins.
The reason they can achieve this is because they do not carry players who are not prepared to buy into full field team defense or players who just cannot execute their philosophy due to their physical deficiencies.
I look at our list from last year and we have a few that we carried at times defensively, most of these players are not defenders which is why we get opened up quickly in transition.
Our team defense will improve once the majority of the below players who were regular players are replaced by others with a better work ethic and physical attributes to apply the required pressure skills.
McLean- Incapable of running & pressuring to a high level
Lucas- Lacks tackling execution
Waite- Picks and choose, effort is not consistent
Judd- Targeted to be run off because of age/injury
Garlett- Picks and chooses, effort is not consistent
Warnock- Incapable of running, pressuring to a high level
Robinson- Cant impact as he goes to ground too much
Carrazzo- Lacks speed to impact defensively on the spread
I would be happy to carry 2 of these next season (Judd & Carrazzo) as one of them has great ball winning ability and can be damaging and the other can tag a key player from the opposition and also win the ball himself.
That list with defensive concerns just about made it impossible to win enough games to feature in finals when you consider our inability to convert at the other end at an efficient level on most occasions.
Fix the full field team defensive efforts and 12 to 13 goals per week may get us more wins.
Casboult 72
Henderson 62
Fevola 48 (last selection in draft)
Betts 43
Garlett 39
Menzel 27
Jamison 22 (one SOS like run down field per game)
Jones 22
Kouta 7
Mids 50
- Thread starter
- #88
I like those draftees !!
I agree that the tall targets will help bring guys like Menz and other half-forwards into it more, but they really should be kicking plenty between them too. If they don't combine for at least 80 goals in 2014 you would have to be disappointed and would certainly want the club to chase a KPF who will do that.
Jones and Casboult have the potential to be a lot better but they are from proven.
I'd expect Hendo to hit the scoreboard a lot harder with a decent preseason though.
The likes of Garlett and Waite refusing to run and giving us a 4 man forward line leaving will also help.......
Wickzki
Definitely Sam MacLure.
- Oct 1, 2010
- 24,115
- 56,396
- AFL Club
- Carlton
- Other Teams
- Ophidians Old Boys, Blazers, MCFC
Henderson 47 goals (2.15 per game)
Casboult 40 goals (1.82 per game)
Menzel 35 goals (1.59 per game)
Jones 33 goals (1.5 per game)
Walker 30 goals (1.36 per game)
Yarran 20 goals (0.91 per game)
Gibbs 20 goals (0.91 per game)
Murphy 18 goals (0.82 per game)
Judd 15 goals (0.68 per game)
Thomas 15 goals (0.68 per game)
That's 273 goals. Surely the rest of the team can get 57.
Casboult 40 goals (1.82 per game)
Menzel 35 goals (1.59 per game)
Jones 33 goals (1.5 per game)
Walker 30 goals (1.36 per game)
Yarran 20 goals (0.91 per game)
Gibbs 20 goals (0.91 per game)
Murphy 18 goals (0.82 per game)
Judd 15 goals (0.68 per game)
Thomas 15 goals (0.68 per game)
That's 273 goals. Surely the rest of the team can get 57.
Screw it, I'm in a good mood. Casboult will kick 70 and Hendo will kick 50. Will end with most point for in 2015 and flag 17.
Called it here first!!
Called it here first!!
I was hoping and looking forward to Casboult playing a role where he was seen as the guy helping the rucking and floating around the ground to make the most of his marking ability and leave the stay at home key forward roles to Henderson and Waite with Casboult pushing forward any time needed. BUT, the idea been screwed due to Carlton stupidly letting Waite go for nothing. Well done Blues list management. Let Betts, Waite, Garlett and Robinson go and get virtually nothing for them. Waite, Henderson and Casboult all playing together would have helped fast track Casboult development without the pressure of learning to improve his kicking virtually overnight. Now with Waite gone Casboult goal kicking has to be one of his prime roles. Also the pressure on Hendo will be on too. Waite for two more years would have been ideal to take pressure off the other two and it would have caused opposition problems and do some damage. Liam Jones and Watson going to need to surprise me and become a force but not expecting either of them to be any better than they shown in past. Watson as slow as treacle and Jones barely marks anything above his head. I lower my expectations to doing at best, something like North did this year. Realistically we are virtually starting from scratch now. No real point making up numbers 5th to 8th in finals as a goal but that is about best hope now which does not excite me.
Guess young Menzel and Henderson are going to need to kick 50 goals each for anything special to be made of our season.
The midfielders and Kruezer are going to need to kick quite a few goals.
Bell and Yarran going to have to be the x-factors that can kick the odd 3 or 4 goal games.
Hopefully we get Tutt in pre-season draft. He would be real handy and could make up for losing Garlett or Betts that been lost to our goal kicking ability.
Forward line at this stage : HF: Bell, Henderson, Tutt
F: Menzel, (Watson or Jones), Ellard (defensive forward role)
Goals from further up the ground need to come from Casboult, Thomas, Yarran, Murphy, Gibbs, Judd, Walker, Docherty, Kruezer, Simpson, Everitt, Jaksch and Buckley
Guess young Menzel and Henderson are going to need to kick 50 goals each for anything special to be made of our season.
The midfielders and Kruezer are going to need to kick quite a few goals.
Bell and Yarran going to have to be the x-factors that can kick the odd 3 or 4 goal games.
Hopefully we get Tutt in pre-season draft. He would be real handy and could make up for losing Garlett or Betts that been lost to our goal kicking ability.
Forward line at this stage : HF: Bell, Henderson, Tutt
F: Menzel, (Watson or Jones), Ellard (defensive forward role)
Goals from further up the ground need to come from Casboult, Thomas, Yarran, Murphy, Gibbs, Judd, Walker, Docherty, Kruezer, Simpson, Everitt, Jaksch and Buckley
Last edited:
JustaBattler
Everyone Looks Better In Blue
- May 31, 2012
- 27,054
- 63,380
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Watson will kick 30 goals + this year.
I'll buy you a tin of biscuits if that happens
BIGGUS 64
Premiership Player
The goal kicking question is a fairly limited discussion really. We know who the candidates are but how can we really know who will feature in the goal tally until we have seen the re-worked side unveiled? Who of our swingmen will MM have spending most of their time up forward? How will Jones perform for his new club? Will Caz take another leap forward? Will Menz take big strides in 2015? Will Walker be playing forward again? We can only speculate on these things at this stage.
The illusion is that because we can't put numbers next to our forward targets that must mean we don't know where the goals are coming from. Then why did we kick so little in yesteryears with Betts, Waite, Garlett, Walker (up forward) post 2011?
Just because we have a rejigged forward line doesn't mean we will struggle to kick goals. The issue is getting a mix between small and tall; running, agile talls & the one-one monster forward types (Cloke, Hawkins; for us this is obviously Cas)
Reality is, Midfield and Defense are where you need to have quality and class to win premierships. It's crucial to have continuity in personnel over a long period.
If we supply the forward line with enough quality delivery we will kick goals.
If we don't know where the goals are coming from, chances are neither do our opposition
Sun Tzu couldn't have said it better himself!If we don't know where the goals are coming from, chances are neither do our opposition
We asked the same question when Fev got shown the door. Someone will kick 'em.
Similar threads
- Poll
