Who will finish higher on the ladder in 2016 - Western Bulldogs or Port Adelaide?

[Bulldog Joe]

I stopped reading because he said what I quoted, which proves that whatever comes after isn't neutral.

And..... wrong 2....

Gray and Boak were top 10 rated a year ago, probably haven't dropped much either.

None of the players you listed are top 10, or have been.

You'd be a brave person to suggest Wingard or Wines will never reach top 10 in their career.

Well no the Bulldogs don't have anyone top 10, but Bontempelli is officially 11th and ahead of Boak (17th). Add to that that Tom Liberatore was 11th at the end of 2014.

At the end of 2015 Port Adelaide have 8 in the top 100 (but one is Patrick Ryder) and the Bulldogs have 7 which does not include Liberatore.

On top end talent I see the Bulldogs as well placed and on depth they are very well served.

 

[PAFC_1870]

Personally, I'm disregarding the overwhelming majority of those opinions because they a) assume that Port will improve markedly this year despite losing Ryder and Monfries, and potentially being without their big name recruit for a number of weeks, and b) just serve to perpetuate the myth that the Dogs are bound to follow Port's trajectory - and on that note, if we do follow Port's trajectory of recent years, we'll play in a preliminary final this year.

Oh, and I hope the irony of disregarding his opinion isn't lost on you, either.

No you are disregarding them because they don't agree with you.

 

[PAFC_1870]

Well no the Bulldogs don't have anyone top 10, but Bontempelli is officially 11th and ahead of Boak (17th). Add to that that Tom Liberatore was 11th at the end of 2014.

At the end of 2015 Port Adelaide have 8 in the top 100 (but one is Patrick Ryder) and the Bulldogs have 7 which does not include Liberatore.

On top end talent I see the Bulldogs as well placed and on depth they are very well served.

What ratings are you going off with that?

I'm not going off some stats that makes player a better than player b because he kicks more...

 

[Pugz89]

And stopped reading there.

Maybe people rate Port because Ports best players are some of the best players in the comp? (Gray, Boak, Wingard, Wines). Atleast two were rated in the top 10 I believe going into last year, and the other 2 could easily push as high through their career.

They are also at the right age bracket, just because your players are young that doesn't mean anything. Just ask the Eagles after their GF appearances a decade ago, everyone thought they'd be dominant for years with such a young average age.

And the Dogs don't have any 'best player in the comp' kind of players? Libba was #1 clearance player in 2014, Bont is ranked #11 in CD rankings currently, Stringer kicked 50 goals last year and we had two AA defenders including the captain. You're not as far ahead of other teams in that regard as you think.

 

[Bulldog Joe]

What ratings are you going off with that?

I'm not going off some stats that makes player a better than player b because he kicks more...

I am using the Champion Data player ratings. http://www.afl.com.au/stats/player-ratings/overall-standings#
That is the most comprehensive rating system and anything else that someone comes up with is merely opinion

 

[PAFC_1870]

And the Dogs don't have any 'best player in the comp' kind of players? Libba was #1 clearance player in 2014, Bont is ranked #11 in CD rankings currently, Stringer kicked 50 goals last year and we had two AA defenders including the captain. You're not as far ahead of other teams in that regard as you think.

Wingard kicked 53 goals last year and isn't a permanent forward.

Wines missed a tonne of football and would easily find his way amongst the top clearance players in the comp.

And I'm ignoring the 2 best, Boak and Gray.

 

[PAFC_1870]

I am using the Champion Data player ratings. http://www.afl.com.au/stats/player-ratings/overall-standings#
That is the most comprehensive rating system and anything else that someone comes up with is merely opinion

So you'd take Rory Sloane as the 5th best in the league? NicNat 8?

I reckon the most one eyed Crows fans would find that ranking a little off.

Says a whole lot about that list, it's rubbish.

Not that I care, but Port has 3 in that top 20, Hartlett at 29 too, Wines injury wouldn't help.

 

[Bulldog Joe]

So you'd take Rory Sloane as the 5th best in the league? NicNat 8?

I reckon the most one eyed Crows fans would find that ranking a little off.

Says a whole lot about that list, it's rubbish.

Not that I care, but Port has 3 in that top 20, Hartlett at 29 too, Wines injury wouldn't help.

That list may not be definitive about the relative standings of players, but it is the only official statistic used.

You quoted Gray and Boak as top 10 at the end of 2014.

Where does that come from?

 

[Pugz89]

Wingard kicked 53 goals last year and isn't a permanent forward.

Wines missed a tonne of football and would easily find his way amongst the top clearance players in the comp.

And I'm ignoring the 2 best, Boak and Gray.

Stringer played mid at times last year as well. Even so, let's say your best 4 is better than our 4, even take it a step further and say your top 10 is better than our top 10, they aren't the players who will win games more often than not, it's the bottom 4, and the depth in the squad to cover injuries during the season. Considering most Port fans blame injuries for the failure to make finals, then the depth at Alberton is questionable at best, on the other hand, we not only made the finals with significantly less experience but by playing 40 of our 44 man list. So we definitely have better depth on the list, which will speak volumes later in the season when injuries do hit.

 

[PAFC_1870]

That list may not be definitive about the relative standings of players, but it is the only official statistic used.

You quoted Gray and Boak as top 10 at the end of 2014.

Where does that come from?

The AFL website. From memory 2015 pre-season.

 

[PAFC_1870]

Stringer played mid at times last year as well. Even so, let's say your best 4 is better than our 4, even take it a step further and say your top 10 is better than our top 10, they aren't the players who will win games more often than not, it's the bottom 4, and the depth in the squad to cover injuries during the season. Considering most Port fans blame injuries for the failure to make finals, then the depth at Alberton is questionable at best, on the other hand, we not only made the finals with significantly less experience but by playing 40 of our 44 man list. So we definitely have better depth on the list, which will speak volumes later in the season when injuries do hit.

You did it once, back it up for a few seasons before you start getting ahead of yourselves.

In Hinkley's first year our wins came against against relatively lowly ranked teams, it got us in the 8. To their credit they backed it up against better teams the following year, before they got given I believe was the 2nd hardest draw (happy to be corrected), with Hawks, Freo and Swans twice and as such narrowly missed the 8.

Don't deny your draw in 2015 wasn't easy.

 

[Bulldog Joe]

The AFL website. From memory 2015 pre-season.

AFL generally use Champion Data ratings and you just discounted the value of those.

 

[Pugz89]

You did it once, back it up for a few seasons before you start getting ahead of yourselves.

In Hinkley's first year our wins came against against relatively lowly ranked teams, it got us in the 8. To their credit they backed it up against better teams the following year, before they got given I believe was the 2nd hardest draw (happy to be corrected), with Hawks, Freo and Swans twice and as such narrowly missed the 8.

Don't deny your draw in 2015 wasn't easy.

LOL Mythbusters to the rescue. We beat 14 out of 17 teams, failing to beat Hawks, Freo and the Cats. We failed to also beat any team twice, losing to Melbourne, Brisbane and Saints, essentially meaning that we failed to capitalise on our 'easy' draw. Imagine if we won those double ups, we'd have been top 4.

 

[PAFC66]

Stringer played mid at times last year as well. Even so, let's say your best 4 is better than our 4, even take it a step further and say your top 10 is better than our top 10, they aren't the players who will win games more often than not, it's the bottom 4, and the depth in the squad to cover injuries during the season. Considering most Port fans blame injuries for the failure to make finals, then the depth at Alberton is questionable at best, on the other hand, we not only made the finals with significantly less experience but by playing 40 of our 44 man list. So we definitely have better depth on the list, which will speak volumes later in the season when injuries do hit.

Fell apart in the finals like the dogs do best against a very average opponent.

Goodluck this year with a harder draw. We played every team but 1 in the top 8 twice had key injuries, barely a backline all year and almost scraped through.
Youll be lucky to make the 8.

 

[PAFC66]

AFL generally use Champion Data ratings and you just discounted the value of those.

On championship data Kane Corners would probably go down as our best player ever... Meaningless

 

[Pugz89]

Fell apart in the finals like the dogs do best against a very average opponent.

Goodluck this year with a harder draw. We played every team but 1 in the top 8 twice had key injuries, barely a backline all year and almost scraped through.
Youll be lucky to make the 8.

Nobody even expected us to make the finals, we'll be better for the finals experience into the youngsters. Barely a backline? our KPDs had a combined total of under 50 games between them. Whether you doubled up on top 8 teams or not, you failed against Carlton and Brisbane. We beat 14/17 other teams at some stage during 2015, we did ok and expect to hold our own again this year.

 

[PAFC66]

Nobody even expected us to make the finals, we'll be better for the finals experience into the youngsters. Barely a backline? our KPDs had a combined total of under 50 games between them. Whether you doubled up on top 8 teams or not, you failed against Carlton and Brisbane. We beat 14/17 other teams at some stage during 2015, we did ok and expect to hold our own again this year.

We ( port) had barely a backline.. Carlisle and trengove were out for the majority of the year..

You had a terrific season I'm not saying anything such other then once you come across Fremantle, hawks or eagles twice or away from home you'll struggle.

One of the reasons we failed against Carlton and Brisbane was because of our tough draw at the start of the year. It was all mental. I believe it was the dip year we needed. Looking at our draw this year anything other then top 4 would be a failure.

Finals experience is normally gained after success in finals. Richmond could say the same thing but that hasn't helped.

 

[Pugz89]

We ( port) had barely a backline.. Carlisle and trengove were out for the majority of the year..

You had a terrific season I'm not saying anything such other then once you come across Fremantle, hawks or eagles twice or away from home you'll struggle.

Once of the reasons we failed against Carlton and Brisbane was because of our tough draw at the start of the year. It was all mental. I believe it was the dip year we needed.

Eagles smash most they play over there. We have Freo over there final round, and Hawks in rd 3 for the first time away from Tassie in 3yrs. Actually think we'll be half a chance tbh.

 

[PAFC66]

Eagles smash most they play over there. We have Freo over there final round, and Hawks in rd 3 for the first time away from Tassie in 3yrs. Actually think we'll be half a chance tbh.

Most teams could be a chance against hawks this year.. I reckon they'll fade off a bit. Wish we played them twice again.

 

[themightydoggies]

Ryder and Angus big losses for port now Dixon misses a chunk of the pre season is a huge blow to the power !

 

[ManOfClay]

I never realised

Fell apart in the finals like the dogs do best against a very average opponent.

Goodluck this year with a harder draw. We played every team but 1 in the top 8 twice had key injuries, barely a backline all year and almost scraped through.
Youll be lucky to make the 8.

******* whinge whinge. Port got ahead of themselves and choked. Wouldn't be surprised if you missed the eight again

 

[go you pups]

I stopped reading because he said what I quoted, which proves that whatever comes after isn't neutral.

And..... wrong 2....

Gray and Boak were top 10 rated a year ago, probably haven't dropped much either.

None of the players you listed are top 10, or have been.

You'd be a brave person to suggest Wingard or Wines will never reach top 10 in their career.

Libba was arguably top 10 in 2014

Best clearance player in the league that year.

Bontempelli is ranked what 13th on the Official AFL Player Rankings? He's well ahead of Wines and you're overrating Boak a bit there. Boak would be an elite player if he improved his disposal, but it let him down regularly last year. Matthew Boyd suffered a similar fate in his career as a midfielder too, great accumulator, poor disposal by foot.

 

[Farm Boy]

The Bullies are on the up. Plus, they have Stringer. I will go with the Bullies.

 

[fargy]

Both around 6-10th.

Edit: What's with all the Port supporters telling everyone in every thread on the main board they are better than anyone thinks they are? Much like the Doggies I'd be approaching the season with cautious optimism, definitely not the arrogance being shown by them on every thread on the main board.

 

[ManOfClay]

Bontempelli is ranked what 13th on the Official AFL Player Rankings? He's well ahead of Wines and you're overrating Boak a bit there. Boak would be an elite player if he improved his disposal, but it let him down regularly last year. Matthew Boyd suffered a similar fate in his career as a midfielder too, great accumulator, poor disposal by foot.

My favourite boak moment last year was in the second game we played against them when Bontempelli spoiled an aerial ball up forward, put boak on his arse going for the crumb and snapped a goal.