Expansion Why AFL fails miserably in Queensland

[Sausages]

You obviously learned to write well at your GPS school but you didn't learn to think critically.

The whole strategy is to build AFL in Qld from the ground up. This is a long term battle funded by TV rights and a desire to become a truly national sport.

The Wallabies are getting less and less relevant. Crowds are down. League has limited opportunities unless you're a big meat head.

Soccer and AFL are on the rise. Sure the GPS schools honour their students who have made the grade in Rugby and Cricket etc. However that's not to say that students parents won't vote with their feet in the future and choose to play AFL. The Academies are going brilliantly and the AFL and supporters have a lot to be proud of as Australian Rules builds in Qld.

As stated elsewhere, the Wallabies, the rugby franchises, all the rugby league clubs - they don't exist solely on memberships. They maintain their relevance BY being relevant to the market they are in.

I'm arguing that the Australian Rules Football isn't, and has never been, relevant to the markets the expansion clubs exist in. If you all wish to bury your head in the sand on this, that's really ok I simply have a different point of view - and I made that point of view clear to those that matter.

 

[Colonial]

As stated elsewhere, the Wallabies, the rugby franchises, all the rugby league clubs - they don't exist solely on memberships. They maintain their relevance BY being relevant to the market they are in.

I'm arguing that the Australian Rules Football isn't, and has never been, relevant to the markets the expansion clubs exist in. If you all wish to bury your head in the sand on this, that's really ok I simply have a different point of view - and I made that point of view clear to those that matter.

No they dont. The broncos got handed their gifts for 20 years and still do.

Made my decision your just a troll.

 

[Sausages]

No they dont. The broncos got handed their gifts for 20 years and still do.

Made my decision your just a troll.

Eh, don't think that's necessary, but cheers anyway.

 

[inamedthegiants]

I think another thing to consider is this. If the AFL started another team in Melbourne tomorrow, who would support it? How long would it take to get 25k members? The answers are no one and forever.

Sydney took 25 years. There is no reason why GWS and Gold Coast will not take the same, and what are they, 3/4 years old. It is ridiculous to expect that would have established support by now.

Mate, don't use logic and reason on Big Footy. It's out of place here.

 

[Colonial]

Eh, don't think that's necessary, but cheers anyway.

I'm sorry, but whether your being polite or mean a troll is a troll.

 

[fabulousphil]

As stated elsewhere, the Wallabies, the rugby franchises, all the rugby league clubs - they don't exist solely on memberships. They maintain their relevance BY being relevant to the market they are in.

I'm arguing that the Australian Rules Football isn't, and has never been, relevant to the markets the expansion clubs exist in. If you all wish to bury your head in the sand on this, that's really ok I simply have a different point of view - and I made that point of view clear to those that matter.

Memberships are relevant, they are relevant because if you don't like the Brisbane Lions board you can vote it out, you can even run for it yourself.

Can you do that at the Brisbane Broncos ?, don't news corp own them, how is that in all seriousness being relevant to the market .... the market of Rupert perhaps.

 

[inamedthegiants]

It is engrained in them to hate the game many when you ask them have they seen a game generally, yeah i watched it for a minute at a pub and its soft s**t fumble ball.

Comes back to the old days of what sports harder and tougher its now no contest as AFL has been softened down stupidly, but the mentality has stuck.

And my response to this as a League convert is this:

Me: How long have you watched League for?
Them: All me bloody life (or words to that effect) I bloody played the game.
Me: Yup. So did I. And probably at a higher level than you. So let me ask you a question.
Is Rugby League the SAME game today as you grew up playing and watching? Is it the same game as even 5-7 years ago?
Them: Na. 2 bloody referees, no shoulder charges, no punch-ons, scrims are embarrassing
Me: (interrupting) That's exactly my point. Now watch this game for 10 minutes and watch Shane Mumford run through blokes like a knife through hot butter. Tell me which game is more physical now.

 

[Tbonefreo]

And my response to this as a League convert is this:

Me: How long have you watched League for?
Them: All me bloody life (or words to that effect) I bloody played the game.
Me: Yup. So did I. And probably at a higher level than you. So let me ask you a question.
Is Rugby League the SAME game today as you grew up playing and watching? Is it the same game as even 5-7 years ago?
Them: Na. 2 bloody referees, no shoulder charges, no punch-ons, scrims are embarrassing
Me: (interrupting) That's exactly my point. Now watch this game for 10 minutes and watch Shane Mumford run through blokes like a knife through hot butter. Tell me which game is more physical now.

I will use that in the next "GayFL' argument i have with another meat head. Good stuff

 

[Keays2myBeamas]

The problem is potential new fans stubbornly reject the sport because the AFL are trying to shove it down people's throat like christian door knockers. If the AFL really want to grow the game in NSW and QLD they simply need to look at how Soccer has grown in America. The way Americans viewed soccer relative to their own sports is not at all dissimilar to the way NSW + QLDers view AFL. So why has the perception of soccer in America shifted from one of stubborn disdain to actually respecting the merits of the sport and being able to appreciate it?

- Awareness of the best of the best; the mega franchises sell their brand in the American market, young people became aware of the following the sport receives overseas partly thanks to the internet, and felt compelled to see what all the fuss was about. I'm not talking about awareness of the sport, young children have always played soccer in massive numbers in America, I'm talking about awareness of the big professional leagues and best players.

- Access to watch the highest quality games with the highest quality coverage. Again partly thanks to the internet but also due to the way pay tv works in America. Do you think many Americans introduction to professional soccer was a low quality MLS game in front of 10,000 people? They are much more likely introduced by watching the best EPL game of the week, in front of a sold out crowd watching the best players in the world. "MLS games in the U.S. have most recently drawn about 220,000 viewers per broadcast, while the English Premier League games have drawn in around 414,000 per match". When given a choice between a local product and a much higher quality international product, for the same price, Americans are choosing the higher quality.

- Local talent representing them on the world stage and performing admirably. When they do support the local players it is when they are up against the best and representing them in some way (as mentioned in the OP). It must be acknowledged that this takes a long time to start producing the talent good enough to gain relevance.

Forget the crowd figures at Rugby League games, the most passionate die hard league supporters support their team by getting together with their friends and family and watching the game at the pub or on the couch. Going to the game is just not a "thing". Be under no illusions, although AFL is not completely irrelevant up here, it is hated, and not given a chance by the average punter, only followed and played by expats. Rugby league is not threatened by AFL in the slightest (and it easily could be), RL is threatened by soccer however. Why? Because the same thing is happening to soccer in Australia that happened in America. Do people watch A-League? It gets nowhere close to the ratings of rugby league. Do they watch the EPL? In their millions. Why? The quality of the league is irresistible.

So what does the AFL need to do to grow the game up here?
-Don't bombard us with plastic franchises and poor quality games. Did the EPL become trendy amongst the American educated youth because the EPL went and stuck a plastic franchise in New York that lost every game? No, The EPL, FIFA, barely did anything, they just improved the quality of their product, and capitalism and modern technology did the work for them in America.

-Bombard us with the best games, on at the best times, in high definition on the major networks. The game would grow more up here with nothing but the big big MCG games and hiding all potentially low quality games away on foxtel, including local teams playing at home. All anyone up here sees of AFL is the odd fumbly, whistle happy umpired, smashing

-Improve the quality of football by reducing the numbers of professional players, cutting the hundreds of players that simply don't deserve to be professional athletes and skinny teenagers that aren't ready yet, by reducing the number of teams and number of players on the field. Ideally get rid of the 2 new teams straight away while there is still only a small fan base that will revolt.

-Fix the high tackle rule. This is the big one people bring up when they are hell bent on putting down AFL, similar to diving in soccer. When has anyone ever been injured because of a fingernail brushing their shoulder? Simply must change for the sport to gain respect up here. If the AFL think they're doing the right thing keeping mum happy that little Johnny is playing a safe sport, then they're has to be a separate rule for the big league.

-In time introduce true State of Origin that, as well as providing ultra high quality football, allows players to represent their non AFL state and most importantly play as underdogs for decades.

Doing these things will work. Instead of low quality AFL being shoved down people's throat, leave us with a healthy amount of high quality AFL that will prove irresistible. But brave decisions have to be made, that almost certainly won't as the current execs greedily, selfishly and stupidly look for nothing but short term monetary gain.

 

[Colonial]

The problem is potential new fans stubbornly reject the sport because the AFL are trying to shove it down people's throat like christian door knockers. If the AFL really want to grow the game in NSW and QLD they simply need to look at how Soccer has grown in America. The way Americans viewed soccer relative to their own sports is not at all dissimilar to the way NSW + QLDers view AFL. So why has the perception of soccer in America shifted from one of stubborn disdain to actually respecting the merits of the sport and being able to appreciate it?

- Awareness of the best of the best; the mega franchises sell their brand in the American market, young people became aware of the following the sport receives overseas partly thanks to the internet, and felt compelled to see what all the fuss was about. I'm not talking about awareness of the sport, young children have always played soccer in massive numbers in America, I'm talking about awareness of the big professional leagues and best players.

- Access to watch the highest quality games with the highest quality coverage. Again partly thanks to the internet but also due to the way pay tv works in America. Do you think many Americans introduction to professional soccer was a low quality MLS game in front of 10,000 people? They are much more likely introduced by watching the best EPL game of the week, in front of a sold out crowd watching the best players in the world. "MLS games in the U.S. have most recently drawn about 220,000 viewers per broadcast, while the English Premier League games have drawn in around 414,000 per match". When given a choice between a local product and a much higher quality international product, for the same price, Americans are choosing the higher quality.

- Local talent representing them on the world stage and performing admirably. When they do support the local players it is when they are up against the best and representing them in some way (as mentioned in the OP). It must be acknowledged that this takes a long time to start producing the talent good enough to gain relevance.

Forget the crowd figures at Rugby League games, the most passionate die hard league supporters support their team by getting together with their friends and family and watching the game at the pub or on the couch. Going to the game is just not a "thing". Be under no illusions, although AFL is not completely irrelevant up here, it is hated, and not given a chance by the average punter, only followed and played by expats. Rugby league is not threatened by AFL in the slightest (and it easily could be), RL is threatened by soccer however. Why? Because the same thing is happening to soccer in Australia that happened in America. Do people watch A-League? It gets nowhere close to the ratings of rugby league. Do they watch the EPL? In their millions. Why? The quality of the league is irresistible.

So what does the AFL need to do to grow the game up here?
-Don't bombard us with plastic franchises and poor quality games. Did the EPL become trendy amongst the American educated youth because the EPL went and stuck a plastic franchise in New York that lost every game? No, The EPL, FIFA, barely did anything, they just improved the quality of their product, and capitalism and modern technology did the work for them in America.

-Bombard us with the best games, on at the best times, in high definition on the major networks. The game would grow more up here with nothing but the big big MCG games and hiding all potentially low quality games away on foxtel, including local teams playing at home. All anyone up here sees of AFL is the odd fumbly, whistle happy umpired, smashing

-Improve the quality of football by reducing the numbers of professional players, cutting the hundreds of players that simply don't deserve to be professional athletes and skinny teenagers that aren't ready yet, by reducing the number of teams and number of players on the field. Ideally get rid of the 2 new teams straight away while there is still only a small fan base that will revolt.

-Fix the high tackle rule. This is the big one people bring up when they are hell bent on putting down AFL, similar to diving in soccer. When has anyone ever been injured because of a fingernail brushing their shoulder? Simply must change for the sport to gain respect up here. If the AFL think they're doing the right thing keeping mum happy that little Johnny is playing a safe sport, then they're has to be a separate rule for the big league.

-In time introduce true State of Origin that, as well as providing ultra high quality football, allows players to represent their non AFL state and most importantly play as underdogs for decades.

Doing these things will work. Instead of low quality AFL being shoved down people's throat, leave us with a healthy amount of high quality AFL that will prove irresistible. But brave decisions have to be made, that almost certainly won't as the current execs greedily, selfishly and stupidly look for nothing but short term monetary gain.

Wow such a long winded bullshit post. I congratulate you sir

 

[Keays2myBeamas]

Wow such a long winded bullshit post. I congratulate you sir

No worries champ.

 

[Kwality]

League has always drawn average crowds, largely due to the paucity of action on the field - it seems a far better game on TV than it does live. Footy is the reverse - good on TV, much better live.

And look, if the conclusion we reach after all this "Brisbaneites/S-E QLD'ers don't care much for sport".....then why the f*** birth two footy clubs here, in a fringe-supported sport?

Now that is a far different question, many Victorians would love to go back to the days of the local comp with every team propped up by the likes of Dunstall & Voss.

 

[Ron The Bear]

This is just an Anti-AFL rant with nothing constructive in it

That's how it reads.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Do people watch A-League? It gets nowhere close to the ratings of rugby league. Do they watch the EPL? In their millions. Why? The quality of the league is irresistible.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I agree with a lot of what you say but this is simply not true. EPL is followed by plenty just as the NBA is but you only have to look at T.V ratings to know this is wrong

 

[inamedthegiants]

The problem is potential new fans stubbornly reject the sport because the AFL are trying to shove it down people's throat like christian door knockers. If the AFL really want to grow the game in NSW and QLD they simply need to look at how Soccer has grown in America. The way Americans viewed soccer relative to their own sports is not at all dissimilar to the way NSW + QLDers view AFL. So why has the perception of soccer in America shifted from one of stubborn disdain to actually respecting the merits of the sport and being able to appreciate it?

- Awareness of the best of the best; the mega franchises sell their brand in the American market, young people became aware of the following the sport receives overseas partly thanks to the internet, and felt compelled to see what all the fuss was about. I'm not talking about awareness of the sport, young children have always played soccer in massive numbers in America, I'm talking about awareness of the big professional leagues and best players.

- Access to watch the highest quality games with the highest quality coverage. Again partly thanks to the internet but also due to the way pay tv works in America. Do you think many Americans introduction to professional soccer was a low quality MLS game in front of 10,000 people? They are much more likely introduced by watching the best EPL game of the week, in front of a sold out crowd watching the best players in the world. "MLS games in the U.S. have most recently drawn about 220,000 viewers per broadcast, while the English Premier League games have drawn in around 414,000 per match". When given a choice between a local product and a much higher quality international product, for the same price, Americans are choosing the higher quality.

- Local talent representing them on the world stage and performing admirably. When they do support the local players it is when they are up against the best and representing them in some way (as mentioned in the OP). It must be acknowledged that this takes a long time to start producing the talent good enough to gain relevance.

Forget the crowd figures at Rugby League games, the most passionate die hard league supporters support their team by getting together with their friends and family and watching the game at the pub or on the couch. Going to the game is just not a "thing". Be under no illusions, although AFL is not completely irrelevant up here, it is hated, and not given a chance by the average punter, only followed and played by expats. Rugby league is not threatened by AFL in the slightest (and it easily could be), RL is threatened by soccer however. Why? Because the same thing is happening to soccer in Australia that happened in America. Do people watch A-League? It gets nowhere close to the ratings of rugby league. Do they watch the EPL? In their millions. Why? The quality of the league is irresistible.

So what does the AFL need to do to grow the game up here?
-Don't bombard us with plastic franchises and poor quality games. Did the EPL become trendy amongst the American educated youth because the EPL went and stuck a plastic franchise in New York that lost every game? No, The EPL, FIFA, barely did anything, they just improved the quality of their product, and capitalism and modern technology did the work for them in America.

-Bombard us with the best games, on at the best times, in high definition on the major networks. The game would grow more up here with nothing but the big big MCG games and hiding all potentially low quality games away on foxtel, including local teams playing at home. All anyone up here sees of AFL is the odd fumbly, whistle happy umpired, smashing

-Improve the quality of football by reducing the numbers of professional players, cutting the hundreds of players that simply don't deserve to be professional athletes and skinny teenagers that aren't ready yet, by reducing the number of teams and number of players on the field. Ideally get rid of the 2 new teams straight away while there is still only a small fan base that will revolt.

-Fix the high tackle rule. This is the big one people bring up when they are hell bent on putting down AFL, similar to diving in soccer. When has anyone ever been injured because of a fingernail brushing their shoulder? Simply must change for the sport to gain respect up here. If the AFL think they're doing the right thing keeping mum happy that little Johnny is playing a safe sport, then they're has to be a separate rule for the big league.

-In time introduce true State of Origin that, as well as providing ultra high quality football, allows players to represent their non AFL state and most importantly play as underdogs for decades.

Doing these things will work. Instead of low quality AFL being shoved down people's throat, leave us with a healthy amount of high quality AFL that will prove irresistible. But brave decisions have to be made, that almost certainly won't as the current execs greedily, selfishly and stupidly look for nothing but short term monetary gain.

Soccer grew in popularity do to weak, lily-livered, over-protecting, soft parents not letting their sons play hockey or football because it was/is deemed too tough on their precious kids.

And it's the perfect sport for girls.

So you can drop 2 kids off at practice/games and not have to run around town to different fixtures/venues.

Soccer is s**t.

 

[Keays2myBeamas]

I agree with a lot of what you say but this is simply not true. EPL is followed by plenty just as the NBA is but you only have to look at T.V ratings to know this is wrong

Yeah obviously Australians don't watch EPL in their millions but it is certainly a "cooler" league to follow than A-league. AFL is not cool up here, it is the exact opposite of that.

 

[Keays2myBeamas]

Soccer grew in popularity do to weak, lily-livered, over-protecting, soft parents not letting their sons play hockey or football because it was/is deemed too tough on their precious kids.

And it's the perfect sport for girls.

So you can drop 2 kids off at practice/games and not have to run around town to different fixtures/venues.

Soccer is s**t.

Agree but soccer has always (last 20-30 years) been this way, with massive junior numbers, but only much more recently is it becoming cool to play and follow soccer as a teenager/adult.

 

[Tbonefreo]

No worries champ.

Dont listen. That was an excellent post man.

 

[inamedthegiants]

Agree but soccer has always (last 20-30 years) been this way, with massive junior numbers, but only much more recently is it becoming cool to play and follow soccer as a teenager/adult.

Soccer is cool?

Man I'm really out of touch with the whipper snappers if this is the case.

Are they still going to discos?

 

[RUNVS]

Soccer is cool?

Man I'm really out of touch with the whipper snappers if this is the case.

Are they still going to discos?

Yep. I am also led to believe a new dance called the jitterbug has become quite popular with the kids.

 

[inamedthegiants]

Yep. I am also led to believe a new dance called the jitterbug has become quite popular with the kids.

I only just learnt the moves to the Charleston.

Gag Nabbit. I'll never be a hip cat.

 

[master bate]

The problem is potential new fans stubbornly reject the sport because the AFL are trying to shove it down people's throat like christian door knockers. If the AFL really want to grow the game in NSW and QLD they simply need to look at how Soccer has grown in America. The way Americans viewed soccer relative to their own sports is not at all dissimilar to the way NSW + QLDers view AFL. So why has the perception of soccer in America shifted from one of stubborn disdain to actually respecting the merits of the sport and being able to appreciate it?

- Awareness of the best of the best; the mega franchises sell their brand in the American market, young people became aware of the following the sport receives overseas partly thanks to the internet, and felt compelled to see what all the fuss was about. I'm not talking about awareness of the sport, young children have always played soccer in massive numbers in America, I'm talking about awareness of the big professional leagues and best players.

- Access to watch the highest quality games with the highest quality coverage. Again partly thanks to the internet but also due to the way pay tv works in America. Do you think many Americans introduction to professional soccer was a low quality MLS game in front of 10,000 people? They are much more likely introduced by watching the best EPL game of the week, in front of a sold out crowd watching the best players in the world. "MLS games in the U.S. have most recently drawn about 220,000 viewers per broadcast, while the English Premier League games have drawn in around 414,000 per match". When given a choice between a local product and a much higher quality international product, for the same price, Americans are choosing the higher quality.

- Local talent representing them on the world stage and performing admirably. When they do support the local players it is when they are up against the best and representing them in some way (as mentioned in the OP). It must be acknowledged that this takes a long time to start producing the talent good enough to gain relevance.

Forget the crowd figures at Rugby League games, the most passionate die hard league supporters support their team by getting together with their friends and family and watching the game at the pub or on the couch. Going to the game is just not a "thing". Be under no illusions, although AFL is not completely irrelevant up here, it is hated, and not given a chance by the average punter, only followed and played by expats. Rugby league is not threatened by AFL in the slightest (and it easily could be), RL is threatened by soccer however. Why? Because the same thing is happening to soccer in Australia that happened in America. Do people watch A-League? It gets nowhere close to the ratings of rugby league. Do they watch the EPL? In their millions. Why? The quality of the league is irresistible.

So what does the AFL need to do to grow the game up here?
-Don't bombard us with plastic franchises and poor quality games. Did the EPL become trendy amongst the American educated youth because the EPL went and stuck a plastic franchise in New York that lost every game? No, The EPL, FIFA, barely did anything, they just improved the quality of their product, and capitalism and modern technology did the work for them in America.

-Bombard us with the best games, on at the best times, in high definition on the major networks. The game would grow more up here with nothing but the big big MCG games and hiding all potentially low quality games away on foxtel, including local teams playing at home. All anyone up here sees of AFL is the odd fumbly, whistle happy umpired, smashing

-Improve the quality of football by reducing the numbers of professional players, cutting the hundreds of players that simply don't deserve to be professional athletes and skinny teenagers that aren't ready yet, by reducing the number of teams and number of players on the field. Ideally get rid of the 2 new teams straight away while there is still only a small fan base that will revolt.

-Fix the high tackle rule. This is the big one people bring up when they are hell bent on putting down AFL, similar to diving in soccer. When has anyone ever been injured because of a fingernail brushing their shoulder? Simply must change for the sport to gain respect up here. If the AFL think they're doing the right thing keeping mum happy that little Johnny is playing a safe sport, then they're has to be a separate rule for the big league.

-In time introduce true State of Origin that, as well as providing ultra high quality football, allows players to represent their non AFL state and most importantly play as underdogs for decades.

Doing these things will work. Instead of low quality AFL being shoved down people's throat, leave us with a healthy amount of high quality AFL that will prove irresistible. But brave decisions have to be made, that almost certainly won't as the current execs greedily, selfishly and stupidly look for nothing but short term monetary gain.

So here's your plan.

1. Remove Brisbane and Gold Coast (and GWS) from the AFL. They are just plastic franchises
2. Get rid of the salary cap and any other equalisation measure so that the top 6 teams - Say Hawthorn, Coll, Syd, Freo, Geel, Adel - are perpetually at the top of the league
3. Play these teams regularly against each other as much as possible and focus free to air television in to these teams. Never mind the ongoing competitive advantages that will bring.
4. AFL interest will then peak in Queensland as fans appreciate the brilliance of the top 6 teams and follow the sport, possibly playing it at grass roots level
5. Reintroduce new 'plastic franchises' from QLD in to the AFL?

Sounds like complete BS to me.

You've got your 2 teams. People support them. Juniors are playing footy at ever increasing rates. More will make the AFL now development has been invested in. Both lists have a lot of talent and are capable of playing quality football. They showed that last year. It's much better to keep following the plan that's been set in place rather than some poorly thought out copy of the EPL, A League and NRL.

 

[ringleader]

No worries champ.

Ignore General Gnat. He's from Sydney but is a self proclaimed expert on Queensland.

 

[lindsay_bulldogs]

How many Victorians play for Melbourne Storm? Good teams get good followings. Case closed