Moved Thread Why does Eddie decide what Jumper Port Adelaide can or can't wear?

[MarkT2]

You do understand that the Port Adelaide Magpies (as of today) are a part of the Port Adelaide Football Club? No different to the multiple teams that the Collingwood Football Club has.

I understand but it is different. Collingwood's VFL team is 100% controlled by and run to serve Collingwood's AFL objectives. It is and operated by people appointed by and employed by the club. Port Power operate under a SANFL licence and cannot even play it's "reserves" players in a SANFL magpies under its control. None of that has anything to do with my post though.

The irony is that the "second level" Port Adelaide team is allowed to play in an AFL sanctioned competition, called the Magpies, in the Prison Bar guernsey whenever it wants, but the "first level" Port Adelaide team is not. Both the same club (but not for much longer thanks to the SANFL)

How is there any irony? The Foxtel Cup is a separate competition to the AFL and the competitors come from competitions the AFL has no control over. The AFL have no care over what jumpers any club wears in that competition. You sound like a paranoid conspiracy theorist.

 

[Sherrinator]

Because Eddie is a campaigner

 

[Zahki]

Its a shame Port don't have more pride in their existing jumper.

Pretty much. Port have been in the AFL for a while now, and have won an AFL Premiership, a greater achievement than all of their SANFL flags put together. Maybe it's time they accepted their current identity as the Port Adelaide Power whose colours are Black, White and Teal? No matter how many games they play in their old colours, it won't change what they are now.

 

[MarkT2]

At the start of the year they register their strip and two alternates. There is a bit of going back and forth on the alternates but not on the main strip.

The point being they are pre registered and have to be approved. It's probably a rubber stamp approval but they couldn't register a silly outfit or wear a different one every week.

 

[santa claws]

Can you explain the camry crows membership and average crowds over the last five years using your same logic?

Apparently they have 75% of the whole state as supporters???

no i havent even looked at the crows but i reckon they would ave close to 35k to their home games this yr in a season they have struggled.
my understanding of their situation is they only have so many members because they cant fit em all into aami. a bit like the eagles at subi. some say they wce would have 65k members easy if they had a bigger stadium to fit em into.

you hit it on the head when you say the crows supposedly have 75% of the state as supporters. it leaves just 25% for port and backs up exactly what ive been saying.

 

[MarkT2]

Just on Port's jumper I actually really like the prison bars as well as their current strip. Commercially they need to have a recognisable look and brand. Watering it down won't help and they need all the help they can get. There aren't enough true Port people for the club to really thrive and prosper in the AFL and the Magpies heritage is off-putting to too many non Magpie SA people IMO. They also need national relevance which the president clearly recognises.

I honestly think it would be smart to strongly brand with their current strip and concentrate all their efforts around that at present.

 

[santa claws]

There aren't enough true Port people for the club to really thrive and prosper in the AFL and the Magpies heritage is off-putting to too many non Magpie SA people IMO. They also need national relevance which the president clearly recognises.

.

exactly what ive been saying yet port fans refuse to acknowledge these simple, i wont say facts but observations.

the very fact that they are port adelaide is a noose around their necks. they desperately want to keep that magpie history but its the very thing that may kill em. you cant grow a club with such a limited base of support in a national competition.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Ports current 'new' strip is awesome.

Like Freo's, they've got modern colours with a simple, traditional design.

Nailed it.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Pies should also have a say in where Port play their final and indeed all other finals for they are the Hot Pies, the competitions most important side

 

[BustedWing]

Hi all,

Long time lurker, first time poster.

Think of Collingwood and Port Adelaide as companies, rather than clubs/teams in this debate.

This debate has less to to with the history of the PAFC or the CFC, and far far more to do with branding. Like it or not, AFL is a business, and probably has been in a really serious sense since the late 80s.

Collingwood's BRAND is the magpie, black and white stripes etc. People across the country associate black and white stripes and the magpie (in a sporting sense) as Collingwood.
Certainly more people associate black and white, magpies etc with Collingwood than they to the PAFC.

Regardless of when the PAFC started wearing black and white in the SANFL, part of the condition of entry to the AFL was to NOT associate with anything that could be confused with Collingwood. Thus, teal, lightning bolts, power etc.

This brand recognition means $$$ to the club, in terms of sponsorship, TV time slots etc etc. The more people who associate all things black and white with Collingwood, the more a sponsor will pay to associate themselves with the brand.

CFC's marketplace is Australia, but specifically, its the AFL.

If another team starts associating themselves with Black and White/magpies etc, then it DULUTES CFC's brand, and thus means less $$$.

CFC have spent a long time building up this brand equity, and are right to fight hard to ensure its integrity.

The argument "but PAFC have a long history of B+W/magpies too" doesnt hold, because that brand equity for the PAFC was build in a different market, specifically the SANFL.

Remember back in the day the fight between two mobile phone companies: Crazy Johns and Crazy Rons?

Ron starting a company with such a similar sounding name damaged Johns brand, and rightly sued the crap out of him. Ron then changed his company name to Mad Rons.

It's not too dissimilar (sure, not exactly the same) in this case.

 

[PowerForGood]

Hi all,

Long time lurker, first time poster.

Think of Collingwood and Port Adelaide as companies, rather than clubs/teams in this debate.

This debate has less to to with the history of the PAFC or the CFC, and far far more to do with branding. Like it or not, AFL is a business, and probably has been in a really serious sense since the late 80s.

Collingwood's BRAND is the magpie, black and white stripes etc. People across the country associate black and white stripes and the magpie (in a sporting sense) as Collingwood.
Certainly more people associate black and white, magpies etc with Collingwood than they to the PAFC.

Regardless of when the PAFC started wearing black and white in the SANFL, part of the condition of entry to the AFL was to NOT associate with anything that could be confused with Collingwood. Thus, teal, lightning bolts, power etc.

This brand recognition means $$$ to the club, in terms of sponsorship, TV time slots etc etc. The more people who associate all things black and white with Collingwood, the more a sponsor will pay to associate themselves with the brand.

CFC's marketplace is Australia, but specifically, its the AFL.

If another team starts associating themselves with Black and White/magpies etc, then it DULUTES CFC's brand, and thus means less $$$.

CFC have spent a long time building up this brand equity, and are right to fight hard to ensure its integrity.

The argument "but PAFC have a long history of B+W/magpies too" doesnt hold, because that brand equity for the PAFC was build in a different market, specifically the SANFL.

Remember back in the day the fight between two mobile phone companies: Crazy Johns and Crazy Rons?

Ron starting a company with such a similar sounding name damaged Johns brand, and rightly sued the crap out of him. Ron then changed his company name to Mad Rons.

It's not too dissimilar (sure, not exactly the same) in this case.

Good post, but lets be clear that this is all to do with the rules that the AFL competition wants to run with, rather than any wider parallels.

This discussion is more about the guernsey rather than the Magpie brand, which we don't have any real qualms over.
But the Guernsey is an interesting one for two reasons
- 1) The Port B&W Guernsey isn't black and white stripes.
- 2) Just about every other competition manages to live with teams with the same colours.

eg

And guess what they do when they play each other?
Can you imagine what would happen if, when the EPL rose out of the old Football Association Div 1, they said to one club "ummm, you're going to have to pick a different colour, or you can't play?"

But like is said many times before, it's the AFL's competition, they can run it by any rules they want. Doesn't mean we have to agree with them.

 

[BustedWing]

Good post, but lets be clear that this is all to do with the rules that the AFL competition wants to run with, rather than any wider parallels.

This discussion is more about the guernsey rather than the Magpie brand, which we don't have any real qualms over.
But the Guernsey is an interesting one for two reasons
- 1) The Port B&W Guernsey isn't black and white stripes.
- 2) Just about every other competition manages to live with teams with the same colours.

And guess what they do when they play each other?
Can you imagine what would happen if, when the EPL rose out of the old Football Association Div 1, they said to one club "ummm, you're going to have to pick a different colour, or you can't play?"

But like is said many times before, it's the AFL's competition, they can run it by any rules they want. Doesn't mean we have to agree with them.

I would argue that a discussion about the jumper IS, in fact, a discussion about the brand. After all, it is the visual representation of the organisation.

I would also argue that the PAFC prison bars guernsey IS black and white stripes, but with a slightly different configuration. And therein lies the problem. Its similar, and, to potential new customers, confusing.

The second argument (I reckon it holds more water to be honest) that other leagues/competitions around the world cope just fine, so why cant the AFL, isnt comparing apples to apples in my opinion.

Take the EPL. If you count all divisions, there are what...200 teams across England? To demand each team have a completely different strip is unreasonable, and, well, the horse has bolted from that one. I would hazard a guess that Man U, Liverpool etc would LOVE to be the only team in the EPL that associates itself with the color red. I would argue that multiple teams having the same colours DAMAGES their brand somewhat. I am a very casual viewer of the EPL, and in your response, I couldnt immediately tell which guernsey beloned to who. Thats bad news for the marketing department of each organisation.

The AFL has less than 10% of the teams the EPL has, and so, its drastically less of a problem, and thus much more manageable. If, in the future, the AFL morphed into a league with divisions, and absorbed the SANFL, WAFL, TFL etc, and all of a sudden we had 80 teams in the league, then yup, the horse would have bolted, and the CFC would have to just accept the fact there would be other teams with black and white stripes/magpies etc.

The last two paragraphs are a long winded way of saying "just because the EPL do it, doesnt mean its a better way to go for the AFL". I argue the guernsey clash in the EPL is a small flaw in their makeup, rather than a sign of success in this matter.

 

[basashi]

The point being they are pre registered and have to be approved. It's probably a rubber stamp approval but they couldn't register a silly outfit or wear a different one every week.

Reductio ad absurdum

You are trying to maintain a shred of a win by suggesting that my argument would be false if applied to an extreme, absurd scenario that we both know was not the intention of the statement.

 

[MarkT2]

Collingwood's jumper is very much a function of its brand and vice versa. This isn't equally the case for all clubs. I'd say it is for Carlton, Richmond and Essendon to a higher degree than many other clubs. Collingwood in particular heavily brand the club with the black and white stripes.

As for old argument about other comps, it is completely irrelevent. The EPL has a huge amount of potential teams so clashes are inevitable and they didn't start will different colours to begin with nor utilse as many dsign elements. On top of that thier clubs play against teams from other countries over whom the controlling body has no influence. They deal with clashes beacue there is no alternaive. That doesn't make it a good idea, just a neccissity. EPL clubs etc are also more than happy to change every few years to sell more merchandise around the world. If our clubs want to do that then go for it. I don't Collingwood to do it however. I'd love to see the equalisation arguments if we did though. Another major source of revenue differential.

 

[MarkT2]

Reductio ad absurdum

You are trying to maintain a shred of a win by suggesting that my argument would be false if applied to an extreme, absurd scenario that we both know was not the intention of the statement.

Not sure how much you are arguing with my point v me arguing with yours but mine was pretty simple. Our clubs cannot wear what they want - none of them, Port included. Port have their approved jumpers same as Collingwood.

 

[Giant Sphinx]

it's the same club, fool.

Is it. That's why one is call the port Adelaide magpies and play in a different competition and one is called port Adelaide power and play in a different competition. I know Port supporters would like to think they are the same but they are not. The port magpies have crows players in their side for Christ sake.

 

[Jones2ByrneJones]

Is it. That's why one is call the port Adelaide magpies and play in a different competition and one is called port Adelaide power and play in a different competition. I know Port supporters would like to think they are the same but they are not. The port magpies have crows players in their side for Christ sake.

Club ≠ team, brother. Both Magpies and Power are run by the same administrative panel from Alberton HQ.

 

[Giant Sphinx]

Club ≠ team, brother. Both Magpies and Power are run by the same administrative panel from Alberton HQ.

That's to stream line cost. That's fine no problem with that. But the power can't claim the magpies history and say this is our jumper and we should be able to wear it in the AFL. It's not up to Eddie either but as he points out in the AFL collingwood wear Black an White and don't want anyone else wearing it. He is standing up for what the Majority of Collingwood members want.

 

[Jones2ByrneJones]

That's to stream line cost. That's fine no problem with that. But the power can't claim the magpies history

Well, the fact is, the Port Adelaide Football Club (PAFC) was established in 1870 and moved from the SANFL to the AFL at the end of 1996. When we did this, we changed our moniker to Power and added teal to our jumper.

When we moved to the AFL, the SANFL decided to create a whole new club to fill the void we left there - the Port Adelaide Magpies Football Club (PAMFC), who used our name, moniker and old jumper and were based in Ethleton. This caused a lot of identity issues with the public, who didn't really understand what happened. But, basically, they were frauds. And, if anything, the current Magpies shouldn't be claiming the old Magpies history.

Though this whole issue was put to rest in 2010 when we finally merged with/absorbed the PAMFC.

and say this is our jumper and we should be able to wear it in the AFL. It's not up to Eddie either but as he points out in the AFL collingwood wear Black an White and don't want anyone else wearing it. He is standing up for what the Majority of Collingwood members want.

This issue (whether or not Port should wear something similar to Collingwood, or any other team for that matter) is a separate issue to whether or not you think Port are the same Port that was established in 1870. I get where you are coming from with this, though. You were in the competition first and it's your right to wear what you want. I agree with you - we should wear our current jumper (the double chevron with teal/white) - but I also think it's nice to wear our heritage guernsey every few years to honour our history.

 

[PowerForGood]

That's to stream line cost. That's fine no problem with that. But the power can't claim the magpies history and say this is our jumper and we should be able to wear it in the AFL. It's not up to Eddie either but as he points out in the AFL collingwood wear Black an White and don't want anyone else wearing it. He is standing up for what the Majority of Collingwood members want.

And so he should - nothing wrong with that at all.

Apparently Collingwood has a problem with Port Adelaide doing the same for our members.

 

[MarkT2]

And so he should - nothing wrong with that at all.

Apparently Collingwood has a problem with Port Adelaide doing the same for our members.

Or is he standing up for Collingwood then also?

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Watched 360 last night and David Koch was on their talking about the prison bar jumper to be worn this weekend and Eddie clearly stated this will be the last time ever that port can wear this jumper!

I would like to know what on earth would it have to do with Eddie Mcguire what jumper a club can or can't wear on certain occasions.

Port conceded years ago they would never wear this jumper on a permanent basis, but why on earth if they want to wear it once a year for a certain round should they even need to ask Collingwood or Eddie Mcguire.....

Eddie the Exaggerator at his very best. Collingwood have never said there is a deal that Port can never wear the prison bars ( its actually a wharf and pier design but prison bars has a bit more menace).

It all started with the BS in 2003. Hertitage round was supposed to be a one off so Port was allowed to wear it then in a match against Carlton at Footy Park. Hertitage round was such a success that the AFL went ahead with it in 2004.

The 2003 deal was very murky in the language of the deal with Wayne Jackson, that it meant we wore the magenta in 2004, the baby blue hoops in 2005, in 2006 it was 1980's heritage round and Gilligan at the AFL, to placate Eddie said we can wear a training guernsey - the club told Gilligan to get ****** and we didn't participate in the 2006 heritage round.

So after the bitching and moaning around the 2007 heritage round the deal was struck that we could only wear the PB in future at Footy Park and not against Collingwood. We couldn't wear it in Melbourne and we couldn't market it like the magenta and baby blue. We could only sell 88 worn by the players. So we were allowed to wear the PB guernsey against WB in 2007 at Docklands.

Surprise, surprise the AFL dropped Heritage round in the 2008 draw, never to be seen again. Here is the deal done in 2007.

http://web.archive.org/web/20070803...sArticle/tabid/5586/Default.aspx?newsId=43175

Collingwood statement on heritage jumper

6:49 PM Mon 14 May, 2007 | Back
Collingwood Football Club
for collingwoodfc.com.au

The Collingwood Football Club is pleased to advise that it has worked with the AFL and has agreed to accept a number of undertakings from the Port Adelaide Football Club in relation to protecting the Collingwood black and white stripes.

Whilst acutely aware of the history of the Port Adelaide Magpies in the SANFL, Collingwood was determined to protect the guernsey it has worn for over 100 years.

After numerous approaches by both the AFL and Port Adelaide Collingwood was prepared to permit Port Adelaide to wear its black and white “prison bar” guernsey for heritage round games where Port Adelaide was the home team other than when they play against Collingwood.

More importantly Port Adelaide has agreed that it will never wear a guernsey of predominantly black and white stripes or any other combination of colour and design that clash with the traditional Collingwood uniform.

Port Adelaide has also agreed that it will not commercially manufacture their black and white heritage guernsey.

Collingwood Football Club is pleased to have finally resolved this outstanding issue and as a gesture of good will, has agreed to allow Port Adelaide to wear their heritage guernsey in its awaygame against the Western Bulldogs in round 14 of this season.

http://web.archive.org/web/20070803...sArticle/tabid/5586/Default.aspx?newsId=43175

The 2003 deal is discussed at the following post where I cut and pasted 3 articles form 2003. The post is from 2005 when we were told no B&W jumper.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...ate-no-black-white.177120/page-3#post-3397358

 

[FuManchu]

Port should be wearing the magenta

 

[PowerForGood]

Port should be wearing the magenta

Port Adelaide should be wearing what it IS wearing this weekend.
And when we have occasions where we celebrate our heritage and tradition we should wear the prison bar guernsey.

Why is that so hard for Collingwoid diehards to accept?

 

[PrideOf]

Two reasons: the AFL allows Eddie to do it, and Port hasn't been strong enough to stand up to it. In Koch you guys have got someone who can bring the spotlight onto it through his media profile but I'm not sure he's proven he has the clout to just yet.

How much is the fine for not wearing the approved strip? I've always said that if it's manageable Port should just do it and then get a sponsor to pay the fine. Now that they've got more sponsors on board than they did in 2009-2012, that's an option.